fire fighters fined for ignoring camp fire ban.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Jays toyz

The police have special training and regular practice that allows them responsibilities you and I are not allowed such as carrying a firearm or using electronics while driving among many others. Firefighters make their living controlling fire, the rules for having an open flame should not apply to them. How can you allow someone to set a back fire but fine them for a camp fire

I agree more with this post and post #2 (battle rats).
Kind of reminds me of when I see a police vehicle driving over the limit on the street or hwy. These people are trained and know what they are doing.
It was dumb to post that pic. Authorities pretty well had to discipline them. They were certainly breaking a law. Hope they didn't lose their jobs. We need all the trained forest fire fighters we can get.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I agree more with this post and post #2 (battle rats).
Kind of reminds me of when I see a police vehicle driving over the limit on the street or hwy. These people are trained and know what they are doing.
It was dumb to post that pic. Authorities pretty well had to discipline them. They were certainly breaking a law. Hope they didn't lose their jobs. We need all the trained forest fire fighters we can get.

Police driving over the limit with lights on are doing it as part of their job. It's necessary. Ditto for fire fighters lighting a back fire. These guys weren't doing that. It's exactly the same as an off duty police officer speeding in his personal vehicle. Illegal.

You can't always do the same things at home that you can do at work. Ask any cop or soldier.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Police driving over the limit with lights on are doing it as part of their job. It's necessary. Ditto for fire fighters lighting a back fire. These guys weren't doing that. It's exactly the same as an off duty police officer speeding in his personal vehicle. Illegal.

You can't always do the same things at home that you can do at work. Ask any cop or soldier.

Who said anything about lights on? And who said always? Don't get me wrong. They do a great job, and if there in a hurry or are using thier cellphones or dashboard computer at a traffic light, I'm sure they are still aware of whats going on around them, and are not creating a hazard.
I'm sure this firefighter thing was an isolated incident that no one would ever have known about if they hadn't posted dumb pics.
They deserved a fine and they got one. I'm sure they learned a lesson from this.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Who said anything about lights on? And who said always? Don't get me wrong. They do a great job, and if there in a hurry or are using thier cellphones or dashboard computer at a traffic light, I'm sure they are still aware of whats going on around them, and are not creating a hazard.
I'm sure this firefighter thing was an isolated incident that no one would ever have known about if they hadn't posted dumb pics.
They deserved a fine and they got one. I'm sure they learned a lesson from this.

You said "Kind of reminds me of when I see a police vehicle driving over the limit on the street or hwy. These people are trained and know what they are doing." So you think that off duty cops should be able to speed in their personal vehicles? You are defending these off duty firefighters because they know what they are doing. My point is that just because someone is more skilled at a particular act, they should not be excused from breaking laws regarding that act. Police and soldiers are trained to use firearms. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be subject to laws related to firearms when they are off duty.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You said "Kind of reminds me of when I see a police vehicle driving over the limit on the street or hwy. These people are trained and know what they are doing." So you think that off duty cops should be able to speed in their personal vehicles? You are defending these off duty firefighters because they know what they are doing. My point is that just because someone is more skilled at a particular act, they should not be excused from breaking laws regarding that act. Police and soldiers are trained to use firearms. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be subject to laws related to firearms when they are off duty.

OKO, why are you trying to start an argument? I clearly said "police vehicle". And who said anything about firearms? No one but you said anything about off duty and personal vehicles and firearms.
You must lead a very sheltered exisitence. Point I'm trying to make is if you are driving down the QE2 at 110 kms an hour and a marked police car cruises by you at 120 without his lights flashing, would you take down his lic# and report him. I doubt it. Technically he is speeding, but who cares? Sure he doesn't have his lights flashing or siren on, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing. In other words, life is too short to get upset about petty stuff.
I don't know all the backstory behind this firefighter's bonfire, but I'm sure they had things under control and there was little danger of them starting a forest fire. I have seen pics of the makeshift campsites that firefighters have to live in between shifts, and they don't look very comfortable. If some hardworking firefighters decided to have a wiener roast after a gruelling shift or when fire was finally under control, good for them.
Yes they broke the fire ban, and they were fined. What are you proposing? loss of jobs? Jail time? Let it go already.

P.S. Couple day's ago I saw a marked EPS cruiser that did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign before proceeding on it's way. Do you think I should have reported this infraction to the authorities?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by waterninja

OKO, why are you trying to start an argument? I clearly said "police vehicle". And who said anything about firearms? No one but you said anything about off duty and personal vehicles and firearms.
You must lead a very sheltered exisitence. Point I'm trying to make is if you are driving down the QE2 at 110 kms an hour and a marked police car cruises by you at 120 without his lights flashing, would you take down his lic# and report him. I doubt it. Technically he is speeding, but who cares? Sure he doesn't have his lights flashing or siren on, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing. In other words, life is too short to get upset about petty stuff.
I don't know all the backstory behind this firefighter's bonfire, but I'm sure they had things under control and there was little danger of them starting a forest fire. I have seen pics of the makeshift campsites that firefighters have to live in between shifts, and they don't look very comfortable. If some hardworking firefighters decided to have a wiener roast after a gruelling shift or when fire was finally under control, good for them.
Yes they broke the fire ban, and they were fined. What are you proposing? loss of jobs? Jail time? Let it go already.

OK, I don't want to start trading insults Ninja. So perhaps I have misunderstood you. In using the police example, were you trying to make the point that these firefighters are skilled when it comes to fires and should not be held to the same legal standards as the rest of us in their off hours? That's how I took it. Could you please stick to that question and explain? As I said, perhaps I have your position wrong. Thanks.

[waterninja]

I'm in no mood for a peeing contest either.
I suppose I look at it differently. I think that most firefighters and police view thier occupations as career's and not just jobs. I don't think they really ever go "off duty". Whether they were on the clock or not, I'm sure those firefighters that were having the wiener roast had that firepit under control, and had the proper equipement and training to insure it was put out properly before they left.
It doubt that they simply started a fire willy nilly, perhaps with the idea of future employment fighting the new forest fire that they were starting.
Having a fire was illegal but I'm sure they had it under control. Posting pic's about it was the real crime, and a stupid one at that, in my opinion. I would bet they were not the only firefighters that did something similar, but no one ever heard about it.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by waterninja

OKO, why are you trying to start an argument? I clearly said "police vehicle". And who said anything about firearms? No one but you said anything about off duty and personal vehicles and firearms.
You must lead a very sheltered exisitence. Point I'm trying to make is if you are driving down the QE2 at 110 kms an hour and a marked police car cruises by you at 120 without his lights flashing, would you take down his lic# and report him. I doubt it. Technically he is speeding, but who cares? Sure he doesn't have his lights flashing or siren on, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing. In other words, life is too short to get upset about petty stuff.
I don't know all the backstory behind this firefighter's bonfire, but I'm sure they had things under control and there was little danger of them starting a forest fire. I have seen pics of the makeshift campsites that firefighters have to live in between shifts, and they don't look very comfortable. If some hardworking firefighters decided to have a wiener roast after a gruelling shift or when fire was finally under control, good for them.
Yes they broke the fire ban, and they were fined. What are you proposing? loss of jobs? Jail time? Let it go already.

P.S. Couple day's ago I saw a marked EPS cruiser that did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign before proceeding on it's way. Do you think I should have reported this infraction to the authorities?

Ninja, do you understand what you write? I can see exactly where Oko is coming from. There is a difference between on duty and off duty tasks. If a cop is speeding in his device vehicle to get to an emergency it's different than if he's speeding to get milk for his kids in his minivan.

When you said you agree with battle rat's #2 post, it actually means you agree these guys did nothing wrong other than post a picture, that it's ok for them to break the law just to cook a hot dog, that just because they wouldn't leave a fire unattended that it's excusable. That's the same thing as saying it's acceptable for an off duty cop to speed to the movies in his personal car because he's trained in defensive driving. What kind of an example is that to the public?

It was an irresponsible act, the firefighters should be doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they were doing to lead by example of what a responsible citizen should be doing to protect our people and the environment we live in. You don't have to be a firefighter to know how to keep a campfire from getting out of control. I've had a few campfires over the years and not one has gotten out of control, does that qualify me for being above the law and give me the right to ignore fire bans?

[wags]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Ninja, do you understand what you write? I can see exactly where Oko is coming from. There is a difference between on duty and off duty tasks. If a cop is speeding in his device vehicle to get to an emergency it's different than if he's speeding to get milk for his kids in his minivan.

When you said you agree with battle rat's #2 post, it actually means you agree these guys did nothing wrong other than post a picture, that it's ok for them to break the law just to cook a hot dog, that just because they wouldn't leave a fire unattended that it's excusable. That's the same thing as saying it's acceptable for an off duty cop to speed to the movies in his personal car because he's trained in defensive driving. What kind of an example is that to the public?

It was an irresponsible act, the firefighters should be doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they were doing to lead by example of what a responsible citizen should be doing to protect our people and the environment we live in. You don't have to be a firefighter to know how to keep a campfire from getting out of control. I've had a few campfires over the years and not one has gotten out of control, does that qualify me for being above the law and give me the right to ignore fire bans?

Just because I don't get to say it too often...I agree with you Kurt!
I also understood this to be what waterninja and oko said.

Cheers

[waterninja]

[QUOTE=Kurt505;3610333]Ninja, do you understand what you write? I can see exactly where Oko is coming from. There is a difference between on duty and off duty tasks. If a cop is speeding in his device vehicle to get to an emergency it's different than if he's speeding to get milk for his kids in his minivan.

When you said you agree with battle rat's #2 post, it actually means you agree these guys did nothing wrong other than post a picture, that it's ok for them to break the law just to cook a hot dog, that just because they wouldn't leave a fire unattended that it's excusable. That's the same thing as saying it's acceptable for an off duty cop to speed to the movies in his personal car because he's trained in defensive driving. What kind of an example is that to the public?

It was an irresponsible act, the firefighters should be doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they were doing to lead by example of what a responsible citizen should be doing to protect our people and the environment we live in. You don't have to be a firefighter to know how to keep a campfire from getting out of control. I've had a few campfires over the years and not one has gotten out of control, does that qualify me for being above the law and give me the right to ignore fire bans?[/QU

Don't you guy's have anything better to do then argue? I don't mind, but I must say you sound quite naive. Do you think those firefighters would have been punished if they hadn't posted that pic? Do you think that one isolated incident brings dishoner to all firefighters? I don't. Do you think a police officer would give another off duty police officer a speeding ticket for a minor speeding infraction? I don't. Should a doctor who smokes cigarettes be fired because he should be setting a higher example when it comes to living healthy? Give me a break
The point I'm trying to make is that firefighters are human beings and not machines. Human beings make human mistakes even when they should know better. Who's to say these guys are not volunteers and not professionals with years of experiance?
Yes what they did was illegal and they were fined for it. Normally it would have been a no harm no foul situation, except for that stupid photo. I say lesson learned and let them get on with thier duties. Why some of you want to beat it to death is beyond me. Are you suggesting jail time for these firefighters Kurt? Make a real example of them?
It is a beautifull morning here in the hood, and I hope it stays nice for the game tonight where the mighty ESK"S should give Sask a good trouncing. Some of you should step outside a take a breath of some nice clean smoke free air. It might do you a world of good. Have a nice day, and thank you for your comments.

[wags]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Don't you guy's have anything better to do then argue? I don't mind, but I must say you sound quite naive. Do you think those firefighters would have been punished if they hadn't posted that pic? Do you think that one isolated incident brings dishoner to all firefighters? I don't. Do you think a police officer would give another off duty police officer a speeding ticket for a minor speeding infraction? I don't. Should a doctor who smokes cigarettes be fired because he should be setting a higher example when it comes to living healthy? Give me a break
The point I'm trying to make is that firefighters are human beings and not machines. Human beings make human mistakes even when they should know better. Who's to say these guys are not volunteers and not professionals with years of experiance?
Yes what they did was illegal and they were fined for it. Normally it would have been a no harm no foul situation, except for that stupid photo. I say lesson learned and let them get on with thier duties. Why some of you want to beat it to death is beyond me. Are you suggesting jail time for these firefighters Kurt? Make a real example of them?
It is a beautifull morning here in the hood, and I hope it stays nice for the game tonight where the mighty ESK"S should give Sask a good trouncing. Some of you should step outside a take a breath of some nice clean smoke free air. It might do you a world of good. Have a nice day, and thank you for your comments.

i'm dumbfounded.

Your analogy's don't work with a doctor, since smoking isn't illegal. And yes, many a cop has been handed a speeding ticket for speeding when they weren't supposed to be speeding.

But beyond that, you don't understand what they were saying, which is fine. You're also putting words in mouths, which exasperates the situation since you're not staying on point.

There's no fresh air, it's full of smoke.

Cheers

[ctd]

Police Officers are not more able to drive safer then anyone else while using electronic devices.
That is like saying I can train to drink and drive because I am a beer tester.

The law allows them an exemption because of their job duties. Many Officers abuse this exemption but do not get caught.

As for these firefighter having a fire going. It my have been a lapse in judgement. But the reality is PUBLIC OPINION is what hung them.
Those men and women at times sleep in tents for weeks on end, their clothes rarely dry out from their sweat it accumulated the day before. They use single burner stoves to cook their meals on. Only if they haven't run out of fuel.

So if they lite a fire to have a bit of normal in their life for an hour or two, cook a meal, or dry their clothes I don't personally care. If you have problem with that then you should try out next February for the fitness test and apply for a job as Forestry Firefighter if successful. Then you can enjoy the comforts they get to enjoy while on the line.

[Kurt505]

Wags....... wholly smokes hey!

Ninja, I just wanted to let you know what most people understood by your opening post.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by wags

i'm dumbfounded.

Your analogy's don't work with a doctor, since smoking isn't illegal. And yes, many a cop has been handed a speeding ticket for speeding when they weren't supposed to be speeding.

But beyond that, you don't understand what they were saying, which is fine. You're also putting words in mouths, which exasperates the situation since you're not staying on point.

There's no fresh air, it's full of smoke.

Cheers

Your first sentence say's it all. LOL
Pity it's smoky where you are. It's probably from that illegal wiener roast.
Beautiful blue skies here in Edm.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by ctd

Police Officers are not more able to drive safer then anyone else while using electronic devices.
That is like saying I can train to drink and drive because I am a beer tester.

The law allows them an exemption because of their job duties. Many Officers abuse this exemption but do not get caught.

As for these firefighter having a fire going. It my have been a lapse in judgement. But the reality is PUBLIC OPINION is what hung them.
Those men and women at times sleep in tents for weeks on end, their clothes rarely dry out from their sweat it accumulated the day before. They use single burner stoves to cook their meals on. Only if they haven't run out of fuel.

So if they lite a fire to have a bit of normal in their life for an hour or two, cook a meal, or dry their clothes I don't personally care. If you have problem with that then you should try out next February for the fitness test and apply for a job as Forestry Firefighter if successful. Then you can enjoy the comforts they get to enjoy while on the line.

Well put. Sounds like you live in the real world.

[wags]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Your first sentence say's it all. LOL
Pity it's smoky where you are. It's probably from that illegal wiener roast.
Beautiful blue skies here in Edm.

My first sentence does say it all, it speaks volumes Ninja, if you're listening that is

And no, not the weiner roast, it's from the BC fires, that caused a fire ban to be put into place, which were ignored by the firefighters. There's a whole story on it, you should read it up!

Cheers

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by wags

Just because I don't get to say it too often...I agree with you Kurt!
I also understood this to be what waterninja and oko said.

Cheers

Darn, I have to agree with Kurt too.

[roughneckin]

This firefighter was trained too....

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...%3fservice=amp

[Jack&7]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

Unlike some professions, there are very few idiots in Firefighting.
Those that are found, are quickly dealt with!

Selkirk

Very true. You get with the program pretty quick or you can beat it out the door.

I am a firefighter and I don't expect nor demand certain 'latittudes' because of my profession. Also, I would caution those in this thread from tarring with the same brush. There are many different types of firefighters....and a vast difference between those that have trained and studied for years to become a paid, professional firefighter on a major metro department and a college student doing a summer job. Hell...in the US they even have prisoners out on the fireline in the bush. All can be called firefighters but each is at a different stage or social class in life.

I do not say this to disparage wildland firefighters at all...those guys and gals face some of the toughest conditions you could imagine and they have my utmost respect. Just saying there IS a difference...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Darn, I have to agree with Kurt too.

Get used to it...... the smarter you get, the more often it'll happen

[Battle Rat]

Seems to be that there is a lot of people here that believe they have never made a mistake, have a sense of entitlement and are lacking in humility to recognize those that deserve respect.
I know I am far from perfect and I'm sure no one on this forum is either.
I will not tolerate anyone that disrespects Fire Fighters, LEO or our AF members.
They made a mistake, yes, but if you believe that there was an actual risk of creating an uncontrolled fire than you are an idiot.
The only risk they took was backlash of social outcry from the ignorant public.
That threat turned out to become a reality.
I can only assume those that would prefer to see them crucified have never walked a mile in their shoes or drew their hourly pay.
I've always been optimistic that our society, at least here in the west, has a common sense of compassion and basic logic.
I guess I am too trusting.

[Bub]

I really do not understand what's there that is so hard to get. They broke the law and got punished like anyone else in their place would. Has nothing to do with risk or anything else.

If I know what I am doing and even have a fire extinguisher with me, would I get a ticket if I make a fire during the fire ban? Of course I would and rightfully so. If there was no photograph, would they get a ticket? No, they wouldn't. It does not change the fact that they obviously should not have had the fire burning in the first place. Should they loose their job over? Personally, I do not think so. If it happens again, then yes, they should loose their job.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Bub

I really do not understand what's there that is so hard to get. They broke the law and got punished like anyone else in their place would. Has nothing to do with risk or anything else.

If I know what I am doing and even have a fire extinguisher with me, would I get a ticket if I make a fire during the fire ban? Of course I would and rightfully so. If there was no photograph, would they get a ticket? No, they wouldn't. It does not change the fact that they obviously should not have had the fire burning in the first place. Should they loose their job over? Personally, I do not think so. If it happens again, then yes, they should loose their job.

If they're dumb enough to post a picture of it, I'm not so sure they'd be smart enough to keep it contained.......

[Bub]

^ that too.

P.S. Hope it won't snow as there are quite a few people who agree with you today

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Bub

^ that too.

P.S. Hope it won't snow as there are quite a few people who agree with you today

Ya, well......... enjoy it while it lasts.


Tomorrow is another day

[Bub]

And good night to you as well, sir

[Mountain Guy]

There's lots of trained cops that are no better drivers than you or I....and these fire fire fighters in the pic are irresponsible and probably immature and should be held accountable for what they did

[wildbill]

There's idiots in every profession, trade ect., nothin today surprises me anymore weather it be un peacekeepers or the rc that shot an unarmed man in custody in pincher that got charged with manslaughter. They got caught being idiots (we all have at least once in our lives, and if you say you haven't you're a liar!) learn from their mistakes and try not to be idiots. Some people you just can't fix just like.............🔽
🔽

[Ranets]

Best post on this topic. Too many people out their are absolutely perfect and never make a mistake (just ask them), but for the rest of us here in the real world realize human error exists and is absolutely acceptable. So for those thinking people out there smile, shake your head and carry on with far more important topics that will actually concern you.

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

Seems to be that there is a lot of people here that believe they have never made a mistake, have a sense of entitlement and are lacking in humility to recognize those that deserve respect.
I know I am far from perfect and I'm sure no one on this forum is either.
I will not tolerate anyone that disrespects Fire Fighters, LEO or our AF members.
They made a mistake, yes, but if you believe that there was an actual risk of creating an uncontrolled fire than you are an idiot.
The only risk they took was backlash of social outcry from the ignorant public.
That threat turned out to become a reality.
I can only assume those that would prefer to see them crucified have never walked a mile in their shoes or drew their hourly pay.
I've always been optimistic that our society, at least here in the west, has a common sense of compassion and basic logic.
I guess I am too trusting.

[Talking moose]

The law is the law. Can't do the time, don't do the crime. Picking certain people to be above the law is absurd. One expects police officers to be the least likely to commit theft, an ambulance driver to drink and drive, or a fire fighter to light fires during a ban.