Grassy Mtn. Coal Project not dead yet.

[Strait Shooter]

Looks like The Australian owners of the Grassy Mtn. open pit coal mine in the Crowsnest Pass haven't given up the fight after having their application rejected repeatedly. Energy Minister Brian Jean has determined their proposal should be exempt from a moratorium on coal development on the eastern slopes which most Albertans supported, so their re-application will be reviewed by a panel of hearing commissioners, who will probably be well rewarded for making the "right" decision this time round.

https://calgaryherald.com/business/a...0b6359cd5/amp/

With severe draught conditions already acknowledged for the Oldman River watershed and most of Southern AB., can't understand how can they justify granting a huge water license to a project of this scale. Nevermind the massive amount of selenium pollution this project will dump into the environment.

[1899b]

Corb Lund’s take on Brian Jean…..


https://www.yukon-news.com/national-...upport-7322024

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Corb Lund’s take on Brian Jean…..


https://www.yukon-news.com/national-...upport-7322024

He should just stick to singing!!

[3blade]

If you want a perfect example of why the dippers remain viable, here it is

Jean is a loser who was rejected by Albertans twice. He had a temper tantrum and quit mid term. Came back and lost the leadership campaign, yet somehow ended up in a very visible position of power. Why? Old boys club at work.

The mine is foreign owned, insanely destructive, was rejected by Albertans, and will provide an endless supply of narratives and photo-ops to attack conservatives, with no long term economic benefits that could ever outweigh the watershed risks and inevitable taxpayer funded clean up costs. Why? Someone in Dani’s circle got paid Australian dollars, without a doubt. Corruption, yet again.

Not a dang thing learned from four years in the woodshed.

[W921]

In south west Alberta there is a ton of people working in sparwood BC coal mine because its only employer that pays anything. If that mine ever closed you could cowboy or farm if you had the skills but other than that nothing is going to really pay you a living wage.
There are a lot of small towns in SW Alberta that would be ghost towns if government ever quit propping them up.
People keep moving here and no jobs for them. Lot don't even have a drivers license.
I understand wanting jobs. But overstocked now with wrong type of people. Every person that moves here from Calgary or Africa means more water consumption which we dont have.
I don't understand why people keep moving here because nothing for them.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If you want a perfect example of why the dippers remain viable, here it is

Jean is a loser who was rejected by Albertans twice. He had a temper tantrum and quit mid term. Came back and lost the leadership campaign, yet somehow ended up in a very visible position of power. Why? Old boys club at work.

The mine is foreign owned, insanely destructive, was rejected by Albertans, and will provide an endless supply of narratives and photo-ops to attack conservatives, with no long term economic benefits that could ever outweigh the watershed risks and inevitable taxpayer funded clean up costs. Why? Someone in Dani’s circle got paid Australian dollars, without a doubt. Corruption, yet again.

Not a dang thing learned from four years in the woodshed.

As in many cases nowadays the minority is the most vocal so to say the mine was rejected by Albertans is a pretty big stretch. Corb sings a good tune but should keep it at that. Akin to taking climate advice from Leonardo..

I'd still like to see a mine on corkscrew like has been the talk for a long time as would a majority of the locals I suspect. Good for the economy and might even be big sheep living there in a few years when the operating company starts the reclamation (not sure why you believe it would be the taxpayers)

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If you want a perfect example of why the dippers remain viable, here it is

Jean is a loser who was rejected by Albertans twice. He had a temper tantrum and quit mid term. Came back and lost the leadership campaign, yet somehow ended up in a very visible position of power. Why? Old boys club at work.

The mine is foreign owned, insanely destructive, was rejected by Albertans, and will provide an endless supply of narratives and photo-ops to attack conservatives, with no long term economic benefits that could ever outweigh the watershed risks and inevitable taxpayer funded clean up costs. Why? Someone in Dani’s circle got paid Australian dollars, without a doubt. Corruption, yet again.

Not a dang thing learned from four years in the woodshed.

UCP is obviously onside with the go ahead as Brian Jean is the one who re-submitted the application and may be the chief beneficiary. So that leaves it up to the Feds. to step in and block it, for which they'll be soundly attacked from all sides for intruding on AB's jurisdiction to protect the environment.

The royalties are currently only 1% of gross profit until capital payoff, then 13%, but the damage done and the scars left on the land will be eternal. There seems to be a huge disconnect about things that are important nowadays and things that are not, "blinded by the light"....and the light is money.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

UCP is obviously onside with the go ahead as Brian Jean is the one who re-submitted the application and may be the chief beneficiary. So that leaves it up to the Feds. to step in and block it, for which they'll be soundly attacked from all sides for intruding on AB's jurisdiction to protect the environment.

The royalties are currently only 1% of gross profit until capital payoff, then 13%, but the damage done and the scars left on the land will be eternal. There seems to be a huge disconnect about things that are important nowadays and things that are not, "blinded by the light"....and the light is money.

You forget about the local economy. Willing to bet many of said would welcome the chance at $45/hour to run a haul truck. $45/hr jobs have a tremendous trickle down effect.
Alberta would be just another Manitoba if it wasn't for it's resources. Use em'

Nimbyism is just a synonym for hypocrite

[W921]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forget about the local economy. Willing to bet many of said would welcome the chance at $45/hour to run a haul truck. $45/hr jobs have a tremendous trickle down effect.
Alberta would be just another Manitoba if it wasn't for it's resources. Use em'

Nimbyism is just a synonym for hypocrite

I'm torn on this issue.
I understand the need for jobs for local people and I want them to have good jobs but we are currently being flooded already with basically some from Alberta but a lot from other countries and nothing here for them. If that mine opened up the immigration wave coming for these jobs will be huge and it will change area forever. And we don't have the water. Only one place they can get water and that's from the only industry that has always been here.
Do we want to turn into southern Ontario although Ontario has endless amounts of water.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

He should just stick to singing!!

He's not even good at that.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forget about the local economy. Willing to bet many of said would welcome the chance at $45/hour to run a haul truck. $45/hr jobs have a tremendous trickle down effect.
Alberta would be just another Manitoba if it wasn't for it's resources. Use em'

Nimbyism is just a synonym for hypocrite

Looks like most of the ground water in Southern Alberta is used up. Now what?

Maybe they pay $45/hr. to drive water trucks...

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Looks like most of the ground water in Southern Alberta is used up. Now what?

Maybe they pay $45/hr. to drive water trucks...

Some mines will stockpile material and wash it later and I even worked at a mine that shipped materials to another location for washing. All depends on the quality

Personally I don’t have enough information on the mine itself to make an educated stance so I am neither for or against it

But sadly most don’t choose that approach and speak first

[britman101]

As for jobs, if this coal mine gets approved this Australian company will run it lean and mean. A lot of the heavy equipment and trucks included will be robotic controlled. There is a company called EACON that already has mining trucks in service with no drivers. Totally controlled by robotics. Can work those trucks 24/7 and pretty much all though out the year excluding downtime for maintenance. Once these big multinational companies are finished turning the mountain into a moonscape it will be off to another country to rape and pillage their resources. When will Canadians ever learn.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by britman101

As for jobs, if this coal mine gets approved this Australian company will run it lean and mean. A lot of the heavy equipment and trucks included will be robotic controlled. There is a company called EACON that already has mining trucks in service with no drivers. Totally controlled by robotics. Can work those trucks 24/7 and pretty much all though out the year excluding downtime for maintenance. Once these big multinational companies are finished turning the mountain into a moonscape it will be off to another country to rape and pillage their resources. When will Canadians ever learn.

Worked as a haul truck trainer/driver when I lived in BC

Now unless the technology has improved in the last 7 years the un man haul trucks do not react properly in mountain mines under winter conditions. This was why the 3 different companies I worked for would not use them. We actually had 3 brought in for testing on the one site and it didn’t go well in the winter

Because I left the industry I no longer keep up to date with this but I know past technology for self driving haul trucks had limitations. They were far more suitable for the conditions you find in the Fort Mac oil sands and I know they still have not replaced manned trucks there even

Definitely a future possibility but doesn’t seem to be common practice in the industry at least here in Canada

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Some mines will stockpile material and wash it later and I even worked at a mine that shipped materials to another location for washing. All depends on the quality

Personally I don’t have enough information on the mine itself to make an educated stance so I am neither for or against it

But sadly most don’t choose that approach and speak first

Selenium is released when waste rock from metallurgical coal mines comes into contact with air and water, creating a soluble form of selenium which is released and congregates in tributaries. Teck Coal Inc. was fined $60 million for releasing selenium into the Elk River system when their filtration system failed to work adequately and is being sued in US courts for pollution of Lake Koocanusa, a reservoir that crosses the international border and feeds rivers in Montana and Idaho.

Pincher Creek spent just under $1 million last year to haul water due to low levels in the Oldman Reservoir caused by severe draught conditions. The reservoir is currently at 30% capacity and just recently it appears the Crowsnest River has run dry, heightening the immediate water crisis.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/crows...bsurface-water

I'd say that's 2 solid strikes against this project.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Looks like most of the ground water in Southern Alberta is used up. Now what?

Maybe they pay $45/hr. to drive water trucks...

They mentioned in their original application they would require an estimated 850,000m3/year. With SSRB and the Oldman sub-basin currently under severe water restrictions and the ongoing issues we are facing down south I wonder where this water is coming from? They mention GW (which is tied to surface water) and purchasing allocation from other sources but this will continue to be an ongoing concern for those that reside in the area. No matter how much money it brings into the area there is only so much water to go around and industry should probably be behind local needs.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forget about the local economy. Willing to bet many of said would welcome the chance at $45/hour to run a haul truck. $45/hr jobs have a tremendous trickle down effect.
Alberta would be just another Manitoba if it wasn't for it's resources. Use em'

Nimbyism is just a synonym for hypocrite

I am pro industry. I am also a person who loves the outdoors and fishing.

I was not worried about her coal mining until I looked into affects of selenium on rivers in B.C. it’s been a disaster.

If they could mine the coal without an open pit system… I would be less worried. They don’t have a mitigation/protection system in place and can’t control selenium in an open pit mine.

I don’t want to lose foothills streams. We don’t have a lot of water in southern Alberta.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm torn on this issue.
I understand the need for jobs for local people and I want them to have good jobs but we are currently being flooded already with basically some from Alberta but a lot from other countries and nothing here for them. If that mine opened up the immigration wave coming for these jobs will be huge and it will change area forever. And we don't have the water. Only one place they can get water and that's from the only industry that has always been here.
Do we want to turn into southern Ontario although Ontario has endless amounts of water.

I'm torn on this as well.
If this mining is lucrative, why hasn't a Canadian Company stepped up?

I'd like to see a 2.5 billion dollar deposit that increases over 5 years time to 5 Billion dollars that would cover clean up, and reclamation of the site should the mine not reclaim it properly themselves. If everything is good at the end of the mine cycle and not contamination. Give them their money back.

I'd also like to see bimonthly water testing at the expense of the mine owners to ensure headwaters and everything down stream remains clean.

Allowing them to proceed without restriction and not protecting the province from a financial loss isn't good business when it comes to our resources and water supply.

BW

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Selenium is released when waste rock from metallurgical coal mines comes into contact with air and water, creating a soluble form of selenium which is released and congregates in tributaries. Teck Coal Inc. was fined $60 million for releasing selenium into the Elk River system when their filtration system failed to work adequately and is being sued in US courts for pollution of Lake Koocanusa, a reservoir that crosses the international border and feeds rivers in Montana and Idaho.

Pincher Creek spent just under $1 million last year to haul water due to low levels in the Oldman Reservoir caused by severe draught conditions. The reservoir is currently at 30% capacity and just recently it appears the Crowsnest River has run dry, heightening the immediate water crisis.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/crows...bsurface-water

I'd say that's 2 solid strikes against this project.

Without the mine management plan you are only basing things on part of the information required

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I'm torn on this as well.
If this mining is lucrative, why hasn't a Canadian Company stepped up?

I'd like to see a 2.5 billion dollar deposit that increases over 5 years time to 5 Billion dollars that would cover clean up, and reclamation of the site should the mine not reclaim it properly themselves. If everything is good at the end of the mine cycle and not contamination. Give them their money back.

I'd also like to see bimonthly water testing at the expense of the mine owners to ensure headwaters and everything down stream remains clean.

Allowing them to proceed without restriction and not protecting the province from a financial loss isn't good business when it comes to our resources and water supply.

BW

Once the ground is stripped and mining begins, rain and snow melt will wash selenium down into the rivers and creeks. There is no method known to fix that. That’s my conundrum.

Exposing the rock to Mother Nature will create an unstoppable problem and leaching will go on.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by roughneckin

They mentioned in their original application they would require an estimated 850,000m3/year. With SSRB and the Oldman sub-basin currently under severe water restrictions and the ongoing issues we are facing down south I wonder where this water is coming from? They mention GW (which is tied to surface water) and purchasing allocation from other sources but this will continue to be an ongoing concern for those that reside in the area. No matter how much money it brings into the area there is only so much water to go around and industry should probably be behind local needs.

What about all the water oil and gas uses? Farming way down stream from the mine is using massive amounts of water..... Since everybody else needs the water the people in the area of the mine should not be using it? A very high percentage of the residents in the mine area want it but it's the people who are not around here that are against the mine. It will be entertaining when all the people involved in oil and gas are out of work because the people in the east don't like it.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by lannie

What about all the water oil and gas uses? Farming way down stream from the mine is using massive amounts of water..... Since everybody else needs the water the people in the area of the mine should not be using it? A very high percentage of the residents in the mine area want it but it's the people who are not around here that are against the mine. It will be entertaining when all the people involved in oil and gas are out of work because the people in the east don't like it.

Maybe it is the folks whos water will be polluted that don't want it?

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Corb Lund’s take on Brian Jean…..


https://www.yukon-news.com/national-...upport-7322024

Idk about you but I always go to washed up singers for natural resource and economic advice.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Once the ground is stripped and mining begins, rain and snow melt will wash selenium down into the rivers and creeks. There is no method known to fix that. That’s my conundrum.

Exposing the rock to Mother Nature will create an unstoppable problem and leaching will go on.

This has been an open mine for the past half decade and no one has complained about selenium in the water until they mention reopening it! We’ve had a lot of snow and rain since it was closed the first time, so how much selenium has been washed down stream in that time?

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

This has been an open mine for the past half decade and no one has complained about selenium in the water until they mention reopening it! We’ve had a lot of snow and rain since it was closed the first time, so how much selenium has been washed down stream in that time?

So you figure selenium is an imaginary poison and because it wasn't monitored and reported properly in the past, they should continue to let it slide now?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

So you figure selenium is an imaginary poison and because it wasn't monitored and reported properly in the past, they should continue to let it slide now?

Selenium is being washed down stream as we speak and still no one is doing anything about it. Why is that?

[W921]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Selenium is being washed down stream as we speak and still no one is doing anything about it. Why is that?

Alberta is selenium deficient. Cows, horses can't eat enough local grass to fill needs. I buy them selenium mineral and I also buy selenium in a bottle and inject it into calves.
I know you are talking about different use of selenium but I'm wondering of its as dangerous as the environmental wacko crowd says it is? I'm not calling anyone here an environmental wacko but they do exist . Same wackoes against everything I have ever done for a living. Logging, gravel pits, hunting, farming, etc.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You forget about the local economy. Willing to bet many of said would welcome the chance at $45/hour to run a haul truck. $45/hr jobs have a tremendous trickle down effect.
Alberta would be just another Manitoba if it wasn't for it's resources. Use em'

Nimbyism is just a synonym for hypocrite

Yeah nimbyism😀. Except most of the nimbys don't live any where near Grassy Mountain, know where it is, know that it is a legacy mine, know the environmental mitigation measures put in place to contain selenium leeching or have much to contribute to a discussion except for "no"

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by W921

Alberta is selenium deficient. Cows, horses can't eat enough local grass to fill needs. I buy them selenium mineral and I also buy selenium in a bottle and inject it into calves.
I know you are talking about different use of selenium but I'm wondering of its as dangerous as the environmental wacko crowd says it is? I'm not calling anyone here an environmental wacko but they do exist . Same wackoes against everything I have ever done for a living. Logging, gravel pits, hunting, farming, etc.

You're not incorrect selenium taken in trace amounts is good for the health of both humans and livestock, but if ingested in larger doses or over a long term it is toxic. It has devastating effect on fish stocks as it is ingested and absorbed by the micro-organisms they feed on.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

You're not incorrect selenium taken in trace amounts is good for the health of both humans and livestock, but if ingested in larger doses or over a long term it is toxic. It has devastating effect on fish stocks as it is ingested and absorbed by the micro-organisms they feed on.

There should be no fish in Gold Creek as it comes directly out of the open mine of grassy mountain, and the cattle drink out of the same Creek as well for the last 50 yrs. Why hasn't the government done anything.