Climate change facts for Greta

[DLab]

Lately the trend toward Law's, Policies and opinion seem to be based on an emotional response rather than being fact based,especially when dealing with the subject of Climate change.
Most of the time I try to make sense of a situation,this makes sense to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFHX526NPbE
Now I don't have a Masters or a Ph.D,but even I can follow this logic and WELL worth the 20 minute watch IMHO.

[Pathfinder76]

Man made climate change is the biggest lie of our day. It is a money grabbing, virtue signalling cancer that needs reined in. The sad part is the data is there for anyone who cares to look.

[Drewski Canuck]

We all want to be seen as heros, as successful, as noble. Even the YOUTH.

Trouble is for the First World's Youth, they are typically under employed, under - successful, and with little prospects of having the lifestyle and affluence of their Parents. This is largely because their Parents are living too long, and spending the wealth before they die, and not transferring the wealth to the Children.

Enter the savior of Climate Change.

The Youth know that their problems with Massive Government Debt was not created by the Youth, though they will have to pay for it.

The Youth know that the crushing tax load is to pay for the aging parents, and the Youth will see little benefit, and little chance to amass wealth themselves.

The Youth know that the lack of prosperous employment prospects is not because of them. The Parent's Generation are the ones who moved all manufacturing to places like Turkey, Mexico, China, and lately Vietnam. Thought the Youth know that they will suffer the consequences of poor business and employment prospects.

The Youth know that the LACK of opportunity to ever even put a down payment on a home, let alone ever pay it off, is because the Parents let the housing market become so expensive. Though the Youth will have to suffer the consequences.

All of these yardsticks of success in our Society are answered with: CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!

Yes, I have a menial job at a recycling plant with my BA Degree, but I am a HERO as I fight Climate Change!!

Yes, I live in something smaller than the Shipping Containers that are the main form of housing in the Slums of Nairobi, but I am a HERO as I fight Climate Change!!

(Anyway, you get the point. Its the Parent's fault.)

And the virtuous can claim that their "suffering" is noble, because they are Climate Change Activists!!!

Funny part of all these Guilt Tripping youth is that they all enjoyed the high consumer standard of living that was based on their Parents' use of the Planet's resources, but now see that they will never achieve the lifestyle that they enjoyed growing up.

How do they rationalize their failure? Just like Youth of every generation, BLAME YOUR PARENTS!!!

How this self serving agenda is ever going to stop Nations like China, India, Kenya, Nigeria, etc to curb their growing use of dirty Fossil Fuels like Coal is beyond me.

You see, the Younger Generation's attack is focused on the older generation in their First World nations, and not on the real source of the problem.

Drewski

[calgarychef]

Thanks for posting this, I’ve seen it before I think but it’s so good to watch.

[Pathfinder76]

What is the real problem?

[DOGFISH]

I would like to see a head to head debate between JT and Patrick Moore. I think he has probably forgotten more about the earth than Justin ever learned . There would be a lot of pauses and stammering going on.

[KGB]

Great video, I just emailed the link to all my tree hugging co workers and friends!

[Penner]

How often have incorrect decisions been made because someone’s decision was based on a very small sample size. We see examples of this everyday whether it be choosing a draft pick in the NHL, selling a stock that has been under performing, etc. Is it feasible to think that ~70 years of climate data is just to small a drop in the proverbial barrel. Is the sample size too small?

There a far greater environmental concerns in this world far more damaging than CO2 emissions. The developed world is being brainwashed sad to say and the extreme socialist ideologies are the real threat we should be concerned of. Propaganda is one powerful tool.

[DLab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmz...ature=youtu.be

Another 5 minute vid basically on the same subject with comparisons on the Climate change cycles timing coinciding with the rise and fall of known major civilisations,that's interesting.

Maybe that's what's behind the Libs Gun control plan along with the UN's agenda of disarmament,trying to get ahead of the curve.

Alright ,every one remove their quadruple layered Tinfoil hats now.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by DOGFISH

I would like to see a head to head debate between JT and Patrick Moore. I think he has probably forgotten more about the earth than Justin ever learned . There would be a lot of pauses and stammering going on.

so does my new kitten. or my pet rock I was in weather for 5 years in our military. this climate fraud makes me sick.

[Sundancefisher]

Activism is everyone’s right however it should come with workable solutions versus screaming and grandstanding.

Yes she comes from a rich family. Yes, her decision to run amuck looking grim and shouting at other adults.

But seriously...she has been running around with a BBC film crew. She has to be getting paid to film the upcoming documentary. So...like most “climate alarmists” there is money behind their motives.

Her biggest flaw is that she is against all oil and gas and coal and nuclear.

Her home country is 40% nuclear. So far all the screaming...what does she and her handlers want?

My feeling is they want attention and sponsors.

[EZM]

There is an agenda for climate change, however, the "money" argument doesn't hold water - it's not even remotely close to what big oil, big industry face to loose with tighter regulations and all the investors and stakeholders who hold equity on those companies.

Any time I hear anyone say "climate change is about money" I ask the question ..... and ask them to explain ..... have yet to hear an intelligent answer that even remotely compares to tiny fraction compared to the benefit $ in the denial side of the argument.

I will say, however, there is lot's of media hype driving the agenda that's so overblown it borders on being silly ..... but let's not talk about money .....

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by EZM

There is an agenda for climate change, however, the "money" argument doesn't hold water - it's not even remotely close to what big oil, big industry face to loose with tighter regulations and all the investors and stakeholders who hold equity on those companies.

Any time I hear anyone say "climate change is about money" I ask the question ..... and ask them to explain ..... have yet to hear an intelligent answer that even remotely compares to tiny fraction compared to the benefit $ in the denial side of the argument.

I will say, however, there is lot's of media hype driving the agenda that's so overblown it borders on being silly ..... but let's not talk about money .....

People make money spewing this lie across the globe. Big money. This lie is taxed. This lie has funneled billions of dollars to charities claiming environmental stewardship. Not about money? Come on.

[NCC]

Imagine a world where people believe that the temperature of the planet can be controlled by giving money to the government.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

There is an agenda for climate change, however, the "money" argument doesn't hold water - it's not even remotely close to what big oil, big industry face to loose with tighter regulations and all the investors and stakeholders who hold equity on those companies.

Any time I hear anyone say "climate change is about money" I ask the question ..... and ask them to explain ..... have yet to hear an intelligent answer that even remotely compares to tiny fraction compared to the benefit $ in the denial side of the argument.

I will say, however, there is lot's of media hype driving the agenda that's so overblown it borders on being silly ..... but let's not talk about money .....

Wrong.

World needs more and more oil and gas every year to support all economies and population growth. Renewables form a tiny fraction and are hugely limited in growth potential.

Oil companies lose zero money. Increasing costs are passed to consumers.

So yes...the money being made by global alarmists are 100% tied to making the panic stick.

There is zero money lost by oil companies. Period.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by NCC

Imagine a world where people believe that the temperature of the planet can be controlled by giving money to the government.

Best quote yet.... Add (twilight zone, music here)

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

We all want to be seen as heros, as successful, as noble. Even the YOUTH.

Trouble is for the First World's Youth, they are typically under employed, under - successful, and with little prospects of having the lifestyle and affluence of their Parents. This is largely because their Parents are living too long, and spending the wealth before they die, and not transferring the wealth to the Children.

Enter the savior of Climate Change.

The Youth know that their problems with Massive Government Debt was not created by the Youth, though they will have to pay for it.

The Youth know that the crushing tax load is to pay for the aging parents, and the Youth will see little benefit, and little chance to amass wealth themselves.

The Youth know that the lack of prosperous employment prospects is not because of them. The Parent's Generation are the ones who moved all manufacturing to places like Turkey, Mexico, China, and lately Vietnam. Thought the Youth know that they will suffer the consequences of poor business and employment prospects.

The Youth know that the LACK of opportunity to ever even put a down payment on a home, let alone ever pay it off, is because the Parents let the housing market become so expensive. Though the Youth will have to suffer the consequences.

All of these yardsticks of success in our Society are answered with: CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!

Yes, I have a menial job at a recycling plant with my BA Degree, but I am a HERO as I fight Climate Change!!

Yes, I live in something smaller than the Shipping Containers that are the main form of housing in the Slums of Nairobi, but I am a HERO as I fight Climate Change!!

(Anyway, you get the point. Its the Parent's fault.)

And the virtuous can claim that their "suffering" is noble, because they are Climate Change Activists!!!

Funny part of all these Guilt Tripping youth is that they all enjoyed the high consumer standard of living that was based on their Parents' use of the Planet's resources, but now see that they will never achieve the lifestyle that they enjoyed growing up.

How do they rationalize their failure? Just like Youth of every generation, BLAME YOUR PARENTS!!!

How this self serving agenda is ever going to stop Nations like China, India, Kenya, Nigeria, etc to curb their growing use of dirty Fossil Fuels like Coal is beyond me.

You see, the Younger Generation's attack is focused on the older generation in their First World nations, and not on the real source of the problem.

Drewski

When I was a kid growing up in the late sixties and early seventies it was cool to protest against the "establishment" and the Viet Nam war. Rebelious youth needed an enemy and an identity. The hippie persona was a statement youth adopted to be visual and recognized. Once our undeveloped brains caught up with the reality of life and responsibilities of adulthood, we gave way to the frivolity of such idle pastimes as we came to the realization that this stuff didn't affect us so much as we once thought.
To me, this climate activism is an eerily similar phenomena. A rebellion against established industry based economies and capitalism. The difference in Canada, present time, is that the current government under The Turd is naive enough to go along with the modern hippie mentality and allow it oxygen because somehow it was discovered that votes could be wrought from it. Blame it on lowering the voting age. Blame it on social media. Blame it on liberal elitist entitlement. Whatever it is, it's a blight on human evolutionary sustenance that will stunt economic growth at a time when we can least afford it. At some point, fossil fuel reserves will be depleted to the point that alternatives will be necessary but until then, we cannot afford a collapse of our oil based economy all at once. That notion is ridiculous and dangerous. The evidence of climate hoax is everywhere if you just want to look. The science behind it is not science. It's politics.

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizz

[curtz]

Thanks for posting, every school should be playing that video for the students.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Wrong.

World needs more and more oil and gas every year to support all economies and population growth. Renewables form a tiny fraction and are hugely limited in growth potential.

Oil companies lose zero money. Increasing costs are passed to consumers.

So yes...the money being made by global alarmists are 100% tied to making the panic stick.

There is zero money lost by oil companies. Period.

Oil companies themselves have reported that profits and equity value has been eroded due to new environmental regulation imposed and have, in fact, led to an erosion of profits and share value.

The basic premise and understanding of how finance/business works ........ your profits are a measure, in the most simplified sense, of your sell price (revenues) minus costs (expenses).

The oil company's revenues are set my the market price for oil. Oil companies simply don't get to "charge more" for their oil to "pass along" their costs if the market (oil prices) don't allow for that ...... business and economics does work that way.

Added environmental regulations, like increased cost of water, reclamation, etc... are costs and expenses for the oil company as a part of continued operations.

So, with those three elements explained ........ I will state it again ...

The oil company are losing money, and stand to loose more money and erode profits further through environmental regulation. Big Money. The oil companies themselves have reported this.

Let's not deflect this to another topic, have this lead to insults, and have you try and make your words true and credible when they simply are not.

BTW - We are not discussing "renewables", oil/gas are non renewable resources - I have no idea what that pertains to, or how this is related to this discussion - and, honestly, I don't care to feed any further deflections to try and rescue yourself on what you said.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by chuck

People make money spewing this lie across the globe. Big money. This lie is taxed. This lie has funneled billions of dollars to charities claiming environmental stewardship. Not about money? Come on.

How?

I'm genuinely interested in how billions of dollars have been funneled to charities claiming environmental stewardship"

Can you give me an example of this? (a credible example)

[Gifted Intuitive]

Greta’s press agent,as of 05/19, Daniel Donner, works from the office of the
** European Climate Foundation
** founded by John H. McCall MacBain
Name sound familiar?
John H. McCall MacBain was the Trudeau Foundation’s Chair of the Board.
But there is more. Remember the fiasco over the $928,000 donation to the Trudeau Foundation?
That was the McCall McBain Foundation
The one Greta's press agent "works out of".
The (Trudeau)foundation attracted no foreign donations from 2008-2013, about $53K in 2014, $428K in 2015, & $535K in 2016. According to the charity, the Switzerland-based McCall MacBain Foundation has been responsible for the majority of the increase in foreign donations.
MacBain, a Canadian businessman, is a founder of the McCall MacBain Foundation and chairman of the Trudeau Foundation. MacBain is the 75th richest person in Canada and has a net worth of $1.37 billion, according to Canadian Business magazine.
So the people who are funding Greta’s interference with our economy and election are the same people who donate more money than anyone to the Trudeau Foundation.
Do you understand the massive push behind all the climate activism during the election now? This is 100% foreign funded 3rd party election interference.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

Greta’s press agent,as of 05/19, Daniel Donner, works from the office of the
** European Climate Foundation
** founded by John H. McCall MacBain
Name sound familiar?
John H. McCall MacBain was the Trudeau Foundation’s Chair of the Board.
But there is more. Remember the fiasco over the $928,000 donation to the Trudeau Foundation?
That was the McCall McBain Foundation
The one Greta's press agent "works out of".
The (Trudeau)foundation attracted no foreign donations from 2008-2013, about $53K in 2014, $428K in 2015, & $535K in 2016. According to the charity, the Switzerland-based McCall MacBain Foundation has been responsible for the majority of the increase in foreign donations.
MacBain, a Canadian businessman, is a founder of the McCall MacBain Foundation and chairman of the Trudeau Foundation. MacBain is the 75th richest person in Canada and has a net worth of $1.37 billion, according to Canadian Business magazine.
So the people who are funding Greta’s interference with our economy and election are the same people who donate more money than anyone to the Trudeau Foundation.
Do you understand the massive push behind all the climate activism during the election now? This is 100% foreign funded 3rd party election interference.

The oil/gas lobby's numbers, just in the US, comparative to the money you outlined above dwarfs those numbers. Those are actually measured in the hundreds of millions - not hundreds of thousands as your example provides.

I bet for each dollar going to the "environmental movement" there's 10 dollars (like far more) coming from industry lobbyists.

That's my key point - nothing more - nothing less.

Trust me when I say, the cost of environmental regulation and subsequent decline in the equity of energy stocks has personally cost me and my family a significant amount of money that was supposed to be set aside for my kids and our retirement. I am not a environment agenda fan.

I am just trying to have an intelligent discussion without ignoring the facts and repeating the mantra of a one sided argument where, in fact, the argument is inequitable.

But I do agree, quite eye opening and outraging.

Just like big pharma does when "loosening" the liability of dangerous drugs with addiction and/or side effects in order to sell more drugs deemed safe by the regulators.

This happens in every industry.

[EZM]

...duplicate

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by EZM

The oil/gas lobby's numbers, just in the US, comparative to the money you outlined above dwarfs those numbers. Those are actually measured in the hundreds of millions - not hundreds of thousands as your example provides.

I bet for each dollar going to the "environmental movement" there's 10 dollars (like far more) coming from industry lobbyists.

That's my key point - nothing more - nothing less.

Trust me when I say, the cost of environmental regulation and subsequent decline in the equity of energy stocks has personally cost me and my family a significant amount of money that was supposed to be set aside for my kids and our retirement. I am not a environment agenda fan.

I am just trying to have an intelligent discussion without ignoring the facts and repeating the mantra of a one sided argument where, in fact, the argument is inequitable.

But I do agree, quite eye opening and outraging.

Just like big pharma does when "loosening" the liability of dangerous drugs with addiction and/or side effects in order to sell more drugs deemed safe by the regulators.

This happens in every industry.

You are kinda comparing apples to grade 8, 3/8 nuts here. Who cares how much lobbying happens in the US. How much lobbying in dollars happens in Canada compared to money spent on climate change and industry disruption. I guarantee there is more money being spent in Canada to destroy the industry than to lobby for it. In the states they are so far behind us in environmental standards they lobby hard to keep it that way. In Canada the lobbying I would say is quite low as the margins are so much tighter here. Which I agree with you on. So if it makes economic sense we proceed, if not the companies walk away; as we have watched in the last 5ish year’s. If this wasn’t the case why wouldn’t the industry just lobbied us into lower wages, less benefits, lower royalties, lower taxes, lower environmental standards? In Canada that’s just not going to happen. Sure they may sway one or two of those at max but they are justifying it not just lobbying. There is a focused effort to destroy the Canadian oil industry not saving the environment. This all leads to money either flowing to subsidize green companies that I would wager lead right back to politicians. The money goes to shipping companies that barge oil from Saudi Arabia that are owned by former politicians. Money goes to people of i lien even that own the rail cars that ship the oil. Money goes to companies that import WCS and immediately make 25% just having it run through their pipe; nevermind the riding and transport fees. Money goes to tides foundation a “charity”. I know what you are saying but this is only the beginning. When we are paying $250 per ton each for heating our homes where is that money going to be going? Climate change is a trillion dollar industry.

[Mb-MBR]

From another forum in another world...


Earlier this year, US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the British Geological Survey (BGS) were forced to update the World Magnetic Model a year ahead of schedule due to the speed with which the magnetic north pole is shifting out of the Canadian Arctic and toward Russia’s Siberia.

The BGS and the US National Centers for Environmental Information has released a new update to the World Magnetic Model this week, confirming that the magnetic north pole, whose coordinates are crucial for the navigation systems used by governments, militaries and a slew of civilian applications, is continuing its push toward Siberia.

“The WMM2020 forecasts that the northern magnetic pole will continue drifting toward Russia, although at a slowly decreasing speed –down to about 40 km per year compared to the average speed of 55 km over the past twenty years,” the US agency said in a press statement.

The data confirmed that this year, the magnetic north pole passed to within 390 km of the geographic North Pole, and crossed the Greenwich (prime) meridian. Compilers also confirmed that the Earth’s magnetic field is continuing to weaken, at a rate of about 5 percent every 100 years.




Global map of declination and the dip pole locations for 2020

The World Magnetic Model is used by everything from smartphone compass apps, maps and GPS services to telecommunications transmission systems, and navigation tools for various agencies, including the Federal Aviation Administration, NASA, the US Defence Department and NATO. Scientists Still Don’t Know Exactly What’s Driving Pole’s Accelerated Drift

Magnetic north, the point on the planet’s surface toward which your conventional compass points, is created by the churning of molten metal in Earth’s core, which creates huge electrical currents to produce the magnetic field.

Commenting on the freshly-released magnetic north pole data, Dr. Ciaran Beggan, a geophysicist and geomagnetic specialist from the British Geological Survey’s Edinburgh office, told FT that although the movement of the pole has been “much faster” since the 1990s “than at any time for at least four centuries,” scientists “really don’t know much about the changes in the core that’s driving it.”

With the pole passing the Greenwich meridian and continuing its race east, humanity is entering the unknown, scientifically speaking, since, from the time records of the magnetic north pole’s position have been kept starting in the 16th century, the pole had drifted around the Canadian Arctic.




Tardis located: North Pole

Dr. Phil Livermore of Leeds University’s Institute of Geophysics recently postulated that a ‘jet stream’ of liquid iron flowing in the planet’s core could help explain shifts in the position of magnetic north, but suggested tracking the flows of this liquid iron could be difficult, “because it lies beneath 3,000 kilometres of rock.”

Scientists have previously expressed concerns about the fluctuations in the magnetic north pole and its possible impact on the magnetic field protecting Earth. Without the field, Earth would be left vulnerable to solar flares, which could cause damage to everything from spacecraft to power grids. Even with the magnetic field intact, the planet remains vulnerable. In 2011, the US National Academy of Sciences calculated that a repeat of a solar storm like the one which hit the planet in 1859 could cause as much as $2 trillion in initial damage, and take a decade to repair.

Furthermore, a weakened magnetic field may lead to a potentially cataclysmic process scientists call a “geomagnetic reversal,” in which the Earth’s north and south poles effectively switch places. The last such flip is estimated to have taken place about 800,000 years ago, and some scientists believe that another may be due soon, even though such an event could take centuries to complete.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

You are kinda comparing apples to grade 8, 3/8 nuts here. Who cares how much lobbying happens in the US. How much lobbying in dollars happens in Canada compared to money spent on climate change and industry disruption. I guarantee there is more money being spent in Canada to destroy the industry than to lobby for it. In the states they are so far behind us in environmental standards they lobby hard to keep it that way. In Canada the lobbying I would say is quite low as the margins are so much tighter here. Which I agree with you on. So if it makes economic sense we proceed, if not the companies walk away; as we have watched in the last 5ish year’s. If this wasn’t the case why wouldn’t the industry just lobbied us into lower wages, less benefits, lower royalties, lower taxes, lower environmental standards? In Canada that’s just not going to happen. Sure they may sway one or two of those at max but they are justifying it not just lobbying. There is a focused effort to destroy the Canadian oil industry not saving the environment. This all leads to money either flowing to subsidize green companies that I would wager lead right back to politicians. The money goes to shipping companies that barge oil from Saudi Arabia that are owned by former politicians. Money goes to people of i lien even that own the rail cars that ship the oil. Money goes to companies that import WCS and immediately make 25% just having it run through their pipe; nevermind the riding and transport fees. Money goes to tides foundation a “charity”. I know what you are saying but this is only the beginning. When we are paying $250 per ton each for heating our homes where is that money going to be going? Climate change is a trillion dollar industry.

Mostly agree.

Except I'm not sure about "pro" oil/gas lobby money versus how much money goes into "anti" oil/gas in Canada specifically. I would assume there still far more money coming from industry by a long shot but haven't seen any factual reports on this.

The anti's (and environmentalists) have impacted our industry and jobs.

They hurt us, I agree, but they are simply kicking us when we were already down - they were not the root cause nor primary driver.

Our latest decline happened (10-12 years ago) as a result of the announcement of proven reserves, and subsequent production of more oil/gas capacity globally outstripped consumption and closing the gap significantly on available supply versus demand.

Sure demand continued to grow, but supply and capacity grew faster, and as a result, driving down prices (and profits).

The added regulations also came at a cost, further eroding those already poor profits and exasperating the issue.

That was my original point.

To blame the environmental movement for our personal demise here in Alberta is careless, ignorant and incredible. It's a tiny part of the equation in the big picture.

Hippies (and environmentalist) do, however, make great scapegoats.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by EZM

How?

I'm genuinely interested in how billions of dollars have been funneled to charities claiming environmental stewardship"

Can you give me an example of this? (a credible example)

Billions and Billions of dollars of your and my money has been spent on the climate change initiative. This is not a secret. At all.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by chuck

Billions and Billions of dollars of your and my money has been spent on the climate change initiative. This is not a secret. At all.

That's exactly the response I assumed I'd get .... but carry on .... I'm not suggesting there isn't money going there, my point was the proportion of money contributed to by/from either side here and the benefits, in proportion on either side. We don't need to divide ourselves ..... we are on the same team.

I just don't think this is an argument worth thoughtful comparison.

It's kind of like pointing out a small tiny brown spot on the back of someones pants, yelling and pointing at it to have everyone look at it, yet your own behind is plastered in brown from your shoulder blades down to your ankles.

Trust me it drives me nuts when money is used to support a mandate that hurts all of us and doesn't address any root causes to actually stabilizing our industry (and providing economic benefit) and needed energy we all use versus balancing our commitment to improving the environment.

I know, having worked in energy for 20+ years, in senior executive position, that without a reasonable balance, you can't progress as an organization.

I'm now in a different sector, but stay connected with energy. The forecast is not good for us here in the province - but the hippies, and the funding, are only a small part of the issue. The bigger issue is they are doing a better job of convincing the "voting masses" of the merits to their agenda.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by EZM

Mostly agree.

Except I'm not sure about "pro" oil/gas lobby money versus how much money goes into "anti" oil/gas in Canada specifically. I would assume there still far more money coming from industry by a long shot but haven't seen any factual reports on this.

The anti's (and environmentalists) have impacted our industry and jobs.

They hurt us, I agree, but they are simply kicking us when we were already down - they were not the root cause nor primary driver.

Our latest decline happened (10-12 years ago) as a result of the announcement of proven reserves, and subsequent production of more oil/gas capacity globally outstripped consumption and closing the gap significantly on available supply versus demand.

Sure demand continued to grow, but supply and capacity grew faster, and as a result, driving down prices (and profits).

The added regulations also came at a cost, further eroding those already poor profits and exasperating the issue.

That was my original point.

To blame the environmental movement for our personal demise here in Alberta is careless, ignorant and incredible. It's a tiny part of the equation in the big picture.

Hippies (and environmentalist) do, however, make great scapegoats.

I, like you, can’t find specific numbers because there likely isn’t published numbers but I believe that anti oil industry money outweighs lobbying by 10:1+. Neither of us can prove this but I have at least a bit of reasoning to support my thoughts. (That doesn’t mean it’s true) So how can Canadian oil companies lobby? Political donations which are a pittance. Realistically that is a drop in the bucket no truly successful lobbying comes from it. Also they generally back anyone with a chance to win just to have a less hostile environment; but we can agree it is nothing major for influence. Outside that, we can’t buy off senators like in the states. The lobbying in Canada focuses around benefits that projects will have on Canadians. Jobs it’ll create. Money it will earn etc. That’s not lobbying that’s just basic economics. Now what limits the amount of influence and money the tides foundation can spend in Canada; nothing does. Tides alone spends more in Canada than the entire oil sector I would guess. We have WWF presidents pulling Trudeau’s strings for crying out loud. Now as Trudeau foundations go I’m betting I know who wins in the donations column there.

As for the sector itself, there is definitely market factors that make up huge differences there. No denying it, but “the hippies” control that market much better than you aren’t giving them credit for. Just imagine, energy east, XL, Transmountain, and northern gateway running or completing today. What would WCS be worth today then? All of these are no-go 100% by “hippie” activity. We are THE world leader in responsible oil; how can industry do anymore to support said projects? It is activism that holds our oil hostage to mediocre prices and depresses our industry. Even if our WCS was selling for WTI, the companies in Texas would still profit more than our Canadian companies; no doubt. However, our companies would be much, much healthier.

Originally Posted by EZM

That's exactly the response I assumed I'd get .... but carry on .... I'm not suggesting there isn't money going there, my point was the proportion of money contributed to by/from either side here and the benefits, in proportion on either side. We don't need to divide ourselves ..... we are on the same team.

I just don't think this is an argument worth thoughtful comparison.

It's kind of like pointing out a small tiny brown spot on the back of someones pants, yelling and pointing at it to have everyone look at it, yet your own behind is plastered in brown from your shoulder blades down to your ankles.

Trust me it drives me nuts when money is used to support a mandate that hurts all of us and doesn't address any root causes to actually stabilizing our industry (and providing economic benefit) and needed energy we all use versus balancing our commitment to improving the environment.

I know, having worked in energy for 20+ years, in senior executive position, that without a reasonable balance, you can't progress as an organization.

I'm now in a different sector, but stay connected with energy. The forecast is not good for us here in the province - but the hippies, and the funding, are only a small part of the issue. The bigger issue is they are doing a better job of convincing the "voting masses" of the merits to their agenda.

See above. As for “convincing the voting masses of the merits”; I disagree. If we change some words though, I will definitely agree. Let’s change the sentence to, “The BIGGEST issue is they are doing a better job of BRAINWASHING the “FACEBOOK MASSES” of the IDEOLOGIES to their agenda.” There, I agree with that sentence. That’s the problem with democracy, popularity contests generally don’t insure talent.