Hunt Farms (Cervid Harvest Preserves)

[WkndWarrior]

Originally Posted by wapiti11

Alberta game farms are tested for many diseases and treated for major parasite infections. Disease and parasite concerns related to game farms are highly exaggerated
wapiti11

"major parasite infections"?? Blackfloot is also 96 sq KM, I would hope that one of the prerequisites for any cattle entering blackfoot is up to date testing of each and every animal that enters there.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I suppose there would be an increase of interest in that area. I could see regular cattle farmers changing over since cattle prices aren't the best.

Shake your head , if thease farms get a foothold in Alberta hunting as you know it today will be gone , and if you want to hunt , then you,ll be taking out a loan to pay for it.

[SouthABFlyFisher]

There is disease in these farms and animals do escape. period. There is a game farm down by magrath (whitetail) and I hit one of his deer that got out with my truck. He waited in his truck with the lights on until I left and then quickly went to retrieve the deer. So in my opinion, they should NEVER be allowed. If you want to hunt trophy class animals, go work for them!!!

[brad925]

Originally Posted by ceedub

The potential for disease and the possibility of escape are not worth the risk, never mind the ethics behind it....for me anyways. For me it somehow changes the sport from hunting, to killing......call it what it is.

I grew up in an era where the stories of Jack O'Connor and Herb Klein took me to far away places and I spent countless nights dreaming of basins full of elk and sheep bedded on high ridges. Now some hunting mags, particularly US ones, are full of stories that I expect are from hunt farms, hence the "how to" themes rather than telling us a story. No offense intended TJ.

Somehow, for me, the legalization of hunt farms will bring an end to my perception of the sport and ruin it for me somewhat. The "trophy" aspect dissappears as no one will really know if an animal is legit or not, fair game or not, and like most things, money will talk.

I'd like to see an end of game farming permanently. It was no better than a pyramid scheme to start with, anyone who ever researched it had to know that. Hopefully the hunting community can come together for once and get behind Quentin to send a very strong message.

Craig

Does Ostrich and Llamas farming ring a bell. The only ones that ever made any money on them where the ones that supplied stock to the start-up farms.
Now with that said i could understand doing this to insure the survival of a species but this has nothing to do with that. This has do with money and nothing else. I'm just glad i won't be remembered for being one that wiped out a species for a buck!!

[Rob Miskosky]

There is absolutely nothing positive about game farming or hunt farms. The risk is so high for a multitude of negatives that the industry should never have been allowed to start in the first place. Scientists warned "if you do this, you get this" - but politicians quite often don't think the same as the rest of us. Government is at fault here... period.

[SouthABFlyFisher]

well said rob.

[wapiti11]

Originally Posted by WkndWarrior

"major parasite infections"?? Blackfloot is also 96 sq KM, I would hope that one of the prerequisites for any cattle entering blackfoot is up to date testing of each and every animal that enters there.

Sorry warrior but I'm with Reeves on this one. No livestock around Blackfoot and EINP are not routinely tested and treated, especially when the domestic livestock industry is in an economic downturn. Why do you think EINP bison have antibodies for BVD and Infectious Abortion? Also to move bison off EINP for management purposes they must be tested for TB and Brucella, all original cattle diseases. Wildlife both wild and domestic are not the disease and parasite reserviors that domestic stock can be.
wapiti

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by wapiti11

Blackfoot Mutli-Use Area is the biggest hunt ranch in Alberta. I have no problem hunting elk, deer and moose behind this game fenced area. A $45 tag to harvest a game in this area, only 20 minutes from my house, is the best deal around. The disease and parasite threat from this area is non-existent. Rather I am more concerned about the disease and parasite threats posed by the domestic livestock that borders the Blackfoot or is allowed into the area for summer grazing. TB and brucella are cattle diseases that have caused major problems in elk and bison. Alberta has an intensive testing program to insure that our bison and elk herds remain free of these diseases. Animals on Alberta game farms are tested for many diseases and treated for major parasite infections. Disease and parasite concerns related to game farms are highly exaggerated.
wapiti11

Don't think you can compare Blackfoot to a hunt farm. Those are wild animals not farm raised. Probably why there hasn't been any disease issues there.
Plus, you think you'll be able to hunt on a private hunt farm for $45 ??

I wonder if I ask permission to hunt ( for free) on one of these farms ( that used to be accessible land) if the land owner would grant it ???

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Don't think you can compare Blackfoot to a hunt farm. Those are wild animals not farm raised. Probably why there hasn't been any disease issues there.
Plus, you think you'll be able to hunt on a private hunt farm for $45 ??

I wonder if I ask permission to hunt ( for free) on one of these farms ( that used to be accessible land) if the land owner would grant it ???

My sentiments exactly.
disease and parasites aside, We have a wonderful hunting culture here where one can go and hunt without many restrictions ( although those are being enroached upon as we speak here)
Hunt farms bring nothing to the table bu paid hunting ,pure and simple.
if you cannot afford it, you are going to be able to do it.
It's bad enough that I have to go way down south to hunt wild and release site pheasants, I fear that in time all crown land will be deemed allocated for hunt farms, and that would be the end of "free" hunting for many of us.
Cat

[wapiti11]

Cat;
I agree,in the big picture parasites and diseases, are a very minor issue, as are game fenced areas. And yes as our people populations grow hunting will become a user pay situation. It is the expansion of agriculture to feed our overpopulated planet and the resultant wildlife habitat destruction that will be the big issue we will eventually face. It is very sad that most of the wildlife in China and India are found behind fences.
Wapiti11

[rottie]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

My sentiments exactly.
disease and parasites aside, We have a wonderful hunting culture here where one can go and hunt without many restrictions ( although those are being enroached upon as we speak here)
Hunt farms bring nothing to the table bu paid hunting ,pure and simple.
if you cannot afford it, you are going to be able to do it.
It's bad enough that I have to go way down south to hunt wild and release site pheasants, I fear that in time all crown land will be deemed allocated for hunt farms, and that would be the end of "free" hunting for many of us.
Cat

Well said Cat
Once this starts know one knows where it will end
These farmers were told from day one that these activities would not be allowed so to expect it now is a bit silly

[saskbuffaloguy]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Don't think you can compare Blackfoot to a hunt farm. Those are wild animals not farm raised. Probably why there hasn't been any disease issues there.
Plus, you think you'll be able to hunt on a private hunt farm for $45 ??

I wonder if I ask permission to hunt ( for free) on one of these farms ( that used to be accessible land) if the land owner would grant it ???

Do you go the the grocery store and say you used to pick carrots or tomatos in this spot and ask if you can have it for free?

Do you think there is more or less habitat destoyed in a 4 section parcel with 8 foot fence around it, or in a 4 city block parcel in the concrete jungle?

[270WIN]

Bob Scammell wrote an excellent column on the subject in the Dec 24/09 Red Deer Advocate. You can find it at www.albertalocalnews.com/.../Paid_ hunting_ immoral_ 80005632.html?



I've tried 3 times to edit the link so as to make it work but I can't. Guess I don't know what I'm doing. Anyway, you can find his column by Googling Bob Scammell CWD. It's worth reading.

[WkndWarrior]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

Bob Scammell wrote an excellent column on the subject in the Dec 24/09 Red Deer Advocate. You can find it at www.albertalocalnews.com/.../Paid_ hunting_ immoral_ 80005632.html?

The links no good

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by WkndWarrior

The links no good

Yeah. Sorry about that. See my edited post. Google "Bob Scammell CWD" and that will get you there.

[fatboyz]

It's interesting when this discussion comes up that Boar hunting, and bird hunting on release farms (pheasant, chuckar etc, like the ones in central and southern Alberta) never comes up. There is lots of discussion about going to "hog wild" for pig hunts. Aren't these 2 types of hunts alao "penned, or canned" hunts?
Just a thought!

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

It's interesting when this discussion comes up that Boar hunting, and bird hunting on release farms (pheasant, chuckar etc, like the ones in central and southern Alberta) never comes up. There is lots of discussion about going to "hog wild" for pig hunts. Aren't these 2 types of hunts alao "penned, or canned" hunts?
Just a thought!

As far as wild boar farms are concerned, while I've never heard of them spreading disease into naturally occuring populations of any species, escapees from these operations have certainly caused all kinds of other problems to the point where they are now considered a pest in the same way rats are I believe. The wisdom of allowing these farms to operate in Alberta is questionable as well, although probably for somewhat different reasons than the deer and elk farms.

Regarding pheasants and chukars, I don't think they carry CWD and I don't think the release of these birds for shooting on private farms or into the wild has ever been shown to cause any harm whatsoever. As a matter of fact the government of Alberta has been releasing thousands of pheasants every year for decades to supplement the wild population without any detrimental effect.

Deer and elk farms, on the other hand, have been proven to be a source of disease spreading into the wild populations and this was predicted by respected members of the scientific community back when the first proposal was made to allow them to operate in Alberta.

[saskbuffaloguy]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

As far as wild boar farms are concerned, while I've never heard of them spreading disease into naturally occuring populations of any species, escapees from these operations have certainly caused all kinds of other problems to the point where they are now considered a pest in the same way rats are I believe. The wisdom of allowing these farms to operate in Alberta is questionable as well, although probably for somewhat different reasons than the deer and elk farms.

Regarding pheasants and chukars, I don't think they carry CWD and I don't think the release of these birds for shooting on private farms or into the wild has ever been shown to cause any harm whatsoever. As a matter of fact the government of Alberta has been releasing thousands of pheasants every year for decades to supplement the wild population without any detrimental effect.

Deer and elk farms, on the other hand, have been proven to be a source of disease spreading into the wild populations and this was predicted by respected members of the scientific community back when the first proposal was made to allow them to operate in Alberta.

How do you feel about fishing in a stocked lake?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rottie

Well said Cat
Once this starts know one knows where it will end
These farmers were told from day one that these activities would not be allowed so to expect it now is a bit silly

I expected it as soon as we found out Klein went against what the biologists and scientists told him and allowed game ranching in Alberta.
Now, every time I go south I have to look at danged White tail farms on the side of the road!
it is only a matter of time if we do not fight this tooth and nail....
Cat

[elkhunter11]

How do you feel about fishing in a stocked lake?

So how likely is it that fish from a stocked will travel overland on their own from lake to lake spreading disease?Unless they can walk or fly,the possibility is quite remote.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So how likely is it that fish from a stocked will travel overland on their own from lake to lake spreading disease?Unless they can walk or fly,the possibility is quite remote.

Well put, Elkhunter. I was in the process of formulating my own rebuttal to the ridiculous comparison of stocked lakes to deer and elk farms when I read yours. I couldn't have done better.

Originally Posted by saskbuffaloguy

Do you go the the grocery store and say you used to pick carrots or tomatos in this spot and ask if you can have it for free?

Do you think there is more or less habitat destoyed in a 4 section parcel with 8 foot fence around it, or in a 4 city block parcel in the concrete jungle?

Sadly, some things are a necessity of life.....and others aren't. I don't buy into the old two wrongs make a right school of thought and while I agree that cities are a great source of habitat destruction, they are a necessity of life in our society....hunt farms aren't!

[wapiti11]

Right on Buf, and I bet .270 hasn't heard of Whirling disease in trout or Hoof and Mouth in boars. Check out the problems boars are creating in Texas now. Elkhunter how does watermilfoil get from one lake to another? Plants don't swim,walk or fly either last I checked?
wapiti11

[elkhunter11]

Elkhunter how does watermilfoil get from one lake to another? Plants don't swim,walk or fly either last I checked?

Milfoil can be spread by becoming attached to boats.I haven't seen too many trout hitch rides from lake to lake by attaching themselves to boats.

[WkndWarrior]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

Yeah. Sorry about that. See my edited post. Google "Bob Scammell CWD" and that will get you there.

A good read, we can't allow this to happen in Alberta or our hunting privledges as we know them will be in for a drastic change.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by wapiti11

Right on Buf, and I bet .270 hasn't heard of Whirling disease in trout or Hoof and Mouth in boars. Check out the problems boars are creating in Texas now.
wapiti11

Actually I have heard of both those diseases. If you are correct about Hoof and Mouth Disease being transmitted by wild boars then that would be one more reason to question the wisdom of allowing wild boar farms to operate in Alberta. If you read my post again, wapiti, you'll see that that is what I was saying about boars. Sounds like you and I may be in total agreement regarding the boar farms.

As for Whirling disease I didn't know it had been introduced into our wild trout by trout stocked from hatcheries. Was it? If so, then I would be concerned about that as well.

Whatever the case may be regarding Hoof and Mouth in boars and Whirling Disease in trout, neither of them change the fact that CWD in our wild deer came from game farms and that, as Rob Miskosky points out above, there is absolutely nothing positive about those operations.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by saskbuffaloguy

How do you feel about fishing in a stocked lake?

It never fails, the stocked fish pond comes up every time there's a discussion about hunt farms on here. Stupid comparison. Apples and oranges IMHO.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by saskbuffaloguy

How do you feel about fishing in a stocked lake?

Sask,,, youve had your doors blown off on this topic here in the past. You must derive some wierd sort of pleasure from being on the losing side of these discussions. Very unusual.

[bruceba]

Here is another very good read. If they want hunt farms they'll get hunt farms and there is not a thing you can do about it. Oh wait lets make it a pilot project thats more palatable.
http://ualberta.ca/~parkland/post/Vo...1rowledge.html

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by bruceba

Here is another very good read. If they want hunt farms they'll get hunt farms and there is not a thing you can do about it. Oh wait lets make it a pilot project thats more palatable.
http://ualberta.ca/~parkland/post/Vo...1rowledge.html

Thanks for providing this info. I have a letter from my MLA which I received early in 2009 in which he says a number of things designed to set my mind at ease on the subject of kill farms. One of those things was assurance "that no future decisions will be made on this subject without first consulting with Albertans".

I'm in the process of putting together a follow up to this correspondence reminding him of this statement amoung other things. I'm glad I hadn't sent it before seeing your post as the information you provided will be most helpful.