$13 Billion Subsidy in Lithium Battery Technology

[Drewski Canuck]

The whole idea of making EV Batteries from the raw resource of Lithium extracted in Canada is the hopes of a value added benefit from the development of the end product.

The reality is that Canada controls the raw resource that is needed by end users, and it is hoped that this technology of a lithium EV battery will be the future EV battery technology for generations to come.

So if Canada has the monopoly on the strategic mineral, do we really need to give subsidies? The reality of a monopoly is that you can make whatever demands you wish for the end user to receive the commodity, including technological development and manufacture of the end product.

When you consider that Multi National Corporations will take their business where they get the biggest return on investment with the most security, subsidizing a manufacturer really is needlessly enticing the manufacturer where you can tie the manufacturing to receiving the commodity in the first place.

A recent example of the consequences of a failed Subsidy cloaked as a loan is the investment in the Bombardier C100 development by the Canada Pension Plan and Quebec Pension Plan. Billions were lost.

Now the bet is $13 Billion, on an uncertain technology where Canada could lose everything if a different commodity proves to be the EV battery of the future, and the new battery technology is manufactured elsewhere.

Remember that as you file and pay your Income Tax Return today.

Drewski

[AxeMan]

Just some facts first, before we dive into this $13 B give away by Junior.

Canada does not have a monopoly on lithium reserves at all. In fact Canada has only 2.5% of the world's lithium reserves and they are undeveloped.

China actually has the monopoly right now on lithium. They control significant downstream production of lithium for battery production.

"China's position in downstream supply chains for the battery metal is even more dominant. The country only mines 13% of the world's lithium but controls 44% of global lithium chemical production, 78% of cathode production and 70% of cell manufacturing for the electric car industry, Mining.com reported."

The world's biggest reserves of lithium are in:
Chile, Australia, Argentina, China.
Lithium Triangle — Argentina, Bolivia and Chile

Trudeau has been virtue signalling his "climate change" ego to be a big dog in the lithium industry, but he is not. Now he has given away $13 B in royalties of our 2.5% of lithium to Volkswagon. Fact is though, without his give away, no country would be interested in Canada's lithium at all.

[Drewski Canuck]

Gee, I was hoping someone would follow up with the obvious reality of this stupid move by the Feds. Besides the obvious business reason that subsidies are a no win for the host Government, Canada will never be a world leader on EV Battery production as we cannot compete with China or the US for that matter.

But of course the real question is why build a Battery Plant in Ontario? Its the only way to keep the auto manufacturing sector alive in Ontario.

Oh then there is the fact that north of Ottawa in Quebec there is a proposed Lithium Mine that would need somewhere to sell its product to, which certainly is not to China which has its own Lithium.

Lets just call it like it is. $13 Billion on a boondoggle that the rest of us will pay for that delivers no benefit to the majority of Canadians.

Drewski

[CanuckShooter]

They should have made Volkswagen partner with the local FNs, job creation and economic independence. You can't go wrong when they just give you billions to squander or hand out in executive bonuses....

[AxeMan]

Remember when Liberals used to complain about Conservatives handing out corporate welfare?

[Twisted Canuck]

Wait until Toyota gets its hydrogen fuel cell tech perfected (they are making big advances) and suddenly EV is no longer the Green Darling. That VW battery plant will be a monument to corporate welfare gone mad.

https://www.topspeed.com/how-toyotas...20engines%20do.

[Geraldsh]

That vw plant will cost 7 billion but he is giving them 13 billion- must be liberal math…

[Big Grey Wolf]

I agree with Canuck, no one knows which technology will be the winner. Very high risk to bet $13 billion of tax payers hard earned tax money $$ on one company and one technology. Only a very inexperienced Drama teacher would make such a risky move to create jobs/votes in Ontario/Quebec.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Gee, I was hoping someone would follow up with the obvious reality of this stupid move by the Feds. Besides the obvious business reason that subsidies are a no win for the host Government, Canada will never be a world leader on EV Battery production as we cannot compete with China or the US for that matter.

But of course the real question is why build a Battery Plant in Ontario? Its the only way to keep the auto manufacturing sector alive in Ontario.

Oh then there is the fact that north of Ottawa in Quebec there is a proposed Lithium Mine that would need somewhere to sell its product to, which certainly is not to China which has its own Lithium.

Lets just call it like it is. $13 Billion on a boondoggle that the rest of us will pay for that delivers no benefit to the majority of Canadians.

Drewski

Follow the money. Some liberal crony will be lining their pockets first. People can't understand these dollar amounts. I always wonder how they come up with the amount, often seems like they pull it out thin air.

If you were to spend 5000.00 a day it would take 7,123 years to spend 13 billion dollars.

If you were to spend 5,000.00 a day it would take a little over 7 years to spend 13 million dollars.

Governments throw these figures around without any understanding of what it will cost society. But they make a lot of friends happy

BW

[zabbo]

This deal is so obviously a purchase of votes they should advertise it as such!
The slimy POS pizzes tax dollars all day long every day!

No doubt a bunch of these dollars will end going out the side door to something like the turdope foundation and liberal supporters!

[trapperdodge]

The first thing he did was remind the Yanks that we had outbid them. Smart move to rub their nose in it. We plan on selling those batteries to the Americans.

The Yanks can shut that battery plant down in a NY minute with the following statement. All Ev's produced in the US must have a battery made in the US.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Who is to say which metals/minerals will be used in batteries of future. Lot of good research into Iron battery technology. Also most EV batteries have major nickle or cobalt metals content in them. Recently filed $9 billion lawsuit by native boys in Northern Ontario concerning 'Ring of Fire".
PS Alberta could have used $13 billion to help develop the Oilsands industry and create jobs in the West.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Wait until Toyota gets its hydrogen fuel cell tech perfected (they are making big advances) and suddenly EV is no longer the Green Darling. That VW battery plant will be a monument to corporate welfare gone mad.

https://www.topspeed.com/how-toyotas...20engines%20do.

Reminiscent of David Suzuki pushing every one into fluorescent lighting. It was cool till it wasn't, city I live in never figured out home to dispose of them, I was told to throw mine into the garbage bin. If you knew where the land fill in the Hat is you would shake your head and wonder.

[WinefredCommander]

He just kept it.

[wwbirds]

Vw puts in 7 billion
Canada puts in 14 billion
Difference of 7 billion is for liberal kickbacks

[Bushrat]

SNC Lavolin will probably get the contract.

[trapperdodge]

The difference between what VW put in (7B) and what Canada forked out (14B) might be the risk factor of the project. The Yanks shut the plant down or the technology changes and VW walks away intact. Canada takes it in the shorts.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

The difference between what VW put in (7B) and what Canada forked out (14B) might be the risk factor of the project. The Yanks shut the plant down or the technology changes and VW walks away intact. Canada takes it in the shorts.

Follow the money. VW will likely make a huge donation to the Trudeau Foundation! The liberal foundation to fund liberals.

BW

[blackburbot]

It is good to see another maga project happening. Just hope they get all the scrutiny that oil projects get. 10-15 years of permit process, all the media backlash, the environmental overwatch for any tailings and earth works. Better not spill any windshield washer fluid or it will make the news

[REMINGTON JIM]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Vw puts in 7 billion
Canada puts in 14 billion
Difference of 7 billion is for liberal kickbacks

BROKERAGE Fee for the Trudeau libs RJ

[Twisted Canuck]

I'd put my $$$ on hydrogen before EV, the more I read about it. And it won't cost trillions to upgrade the power grid, and generate the electricity. But, Justin didn't ask me, nor did VW. As an example of what is already being done:

https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...s-hydra-energy

[stubblejumper01]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

That vw plant will cost 7 billion but he is giving them 13 billion- must be liberal math…

Well he says that the budget will balance itself too so we obviously don’t see the big picture. Once again a vote buying scheme with our tax dollars.

[stubblejumper01]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I'd put my $$$ on hydrogen before EV, the more I read about it. And it won't cost trillions to upgrade the power grid, and generate the electricity. But, Justin didn't ask me, nor did VW. As an example of what is already being done:

https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...s-hydra-energy

That’s the worst part. Mandating electric vehicles before the grid is upgraded is brain dead. But no one would vote for that if they knew the true cost of the transition. If people had to pay to upgrade the grid before the mandate they would not be so willing to do it.

[MyAlberta]

Hydrogen fuel cells will likely appear as storage batteries, buffering solar and wind sources. Would be a great technology for Alberta to exploit. The grid won’t melt. It will see improvements, as loads demand, but much of that will come with optimization.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper01

That’s the worst part. Mandating electric vehicles before the grid is upgraded is brain dead. But no one would vote for that if they knew the true cost of the transition. If people had to pay to upgrade the grid before the mandate they would not be so willing to do it.

Yes it is, but look who's leading the charge!

[Bigwoodsman]

13 billion dollars given away for 3000 jobs. 4.3 million per job. And the Trudeau foundation gets a big fat cheque.

BW

[bessiedog]

yea..... stupid subsidies....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle1071771/

[CanuckShooter]

One of the stipulations should be NO staff or CEO BONUSES for at least 20 years, how many times do they grant money so those companies can give out bonuses???

AND the board should have required a % of Canadian involvement, First Nations and people that live locally to where the plant will be located would be ideal.

Otherwise it's just giving money for nothing.

[plaerzen]

I can get behind large capital projects in Canada. Better than the billions wasted on Keystone XL for vote buying.

[Twisted Canuck]

Another really good reality check on the idea of converting all vehicles to BEV. From the trucking industry:

https://trucking.org/news-insights/h...truck-mandates

And again, this is why i say that the path forward is going to be hydrogen. Far more realistic