.300 win mag vs .300 wsm

[Floppy]

if you are reloading then go with the 300wsm if not then i would go with the 300 win mag

[leo]

At present I have 1-300 Weatherby, 1-300 Win mag, 1-300WSM. They are all only as lethal as the bullet fired and the skill of the person firing them. No animal will be any less dead from any of the above, more so a 30-06 or 308 will suffice 80% of the time. If you do not hand load , as recommended by others the 300 win mag is the most common and availability is somewhat better.

[elkhunter11]

Elk, he asked a very simple question in his OP.
To which I gave a pretty simple answer about the ''advantages a wsm has over the 300win''

Your first post was accurate,as 100fps to 200fps will result is less recoil.However,you later called them ballistically the same,which they aren't.The difference isn't large,but there is a difference.I merely pointed out that using your theory of slightly less powder for slightly less velocity could be used for many other cartridges as well.

As for the OP,i do get concerned when people start talking about long range shooting and knockdown power,when they don't appear to have a great deal of longer range shooting experience.Far to many people get the idea that purchasing a flat shooting cartridge suddenly transforms them into a long range shooter.Given that the OP seems so interested in the 300rum,leads me to believe that this may be the case.The fact is,that most of these people,especially those that don't handload,will never spend the money on ammunition,to practice enough to ever become proficient at longer range shooting.Most of them will sight in the gun at 100 yards,perhaps shoot a few gongs at 200 yards,then blindly trust the posted trajectories as they attempt 400yard and 500 yard shots at game animals.

[LongBomber]

In factory ammo most of the loads for the wsm and the win mag run the same speed, so the speed argument only holds for reloading which the OP doesn't do. The cost per box is within a few $$ if you go apples to apples (ie wsm fed premium tsx vs win mag fed prem tsx). And grey box winchester power points are available at walmart here for about $5 difference between the two.

I say go to the shop, find the rifle that fits you best and go with whatever they have in stock. If they have both a wsm and a win mag toss a coin.

As for the 300rum it is a great long range caliber, and I really like mine, however to actually shoot long range (say 600-700 yards) you pretty much have to reload (that holds for all calibers) to get the proper bullets and the best loads for your rifle. The factory loads for the rum don't really come with the best long range bullets.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As for the OP,i do get concerned when people start talking about long range shooting and knockdown power,when they don't appear to have a great deal of longer range shooting experience.Far to many people get the idea that purchasing a flat shooting cartridge suddenly transforms them into a long range shooter.Given that the OP seems so interested in the 300rum,leads me to believe that this may be the case.The fact is,that most of these people,especially those that don't handload,will never spend the money on ammunition,to practice enough to ever become proficient at longer range shooting.Most of them will sight in the gun at 100 yards,perhaps shoot a few gongs at 200 yards,then blindly trust the posted trajectories as they attempt 400yard and 500 yard shots at game animals.

x2,and hitting a target at 400-500 yards is one thing,but a Deer thats unpredtictable,very tough.

[justinO]

Originally Posted by canadianbigbuck

Just doing some research and wondering if any of you guys could help me out. I'm looking to get a good long range performer that has good knock down power for elk/moose yet not too heavy for deer also. I have narrowed it down to the .300 win mag or .300 wsm.
I was leaning more towards the .300 wsm, but after going through the ballistics charts, the .300 win mag is pretty much the same.

What advantages does the .300 wsm have over the .300 win mag other than a shorter cartridge?

I will be using the rifle mainly for longer range hunting (from ground blinds in large fields)
The .300 rum is a real impressive round, but not impressed with the cost of ammo for them(i don't reload), so that one is out.
Any help or insite would be appreciated.
Thanks

Ive got the exact gun for you going off what you asked above. I wanted to go bigger than 300 win mag but weatherby mag was to expensive for me too reload as I shoot a lot and 338 lapua is just way out of my price range. Get the Remington 700 long range tactical in 300 win mag. For what you are talking about this is a perfect fit not overly expensive and is a tac driver. Load it with 190gr bergers and enjoy shooting out to a 1000 all day if you are serious about long range shooting And only hunting out of blinds or on a bi pod no free hand shooting the gun is heavy but recoil is lighter than my buddies 7mm close to a 30-06 I would say. All the best have a happy new year.

[whitetail Junkie]

[QUOTE=mr.pike

My 300 wsm will physically knock over a coyote!



Well I Hope so

[elkhunter11]

x2,and hitting a target at 400-500 yards is one thing,but a Deer thats unpredtictable,very tough.

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

[LongBomber]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

Boy ain't that the truth right there.

[justinO]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

I agree with you 100% I am assuming the OP is planning on spending a lot of time practice shooting as anyone who talks about long range shooting should be. If you are serious and put in the time and work these guns will do there part..

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

But many people do own a laser rangfefinder and are quite proficient at ranges to 500 yards. I see more and more of them every day. Good to see actually. Long range shooting definitely is the newest fad in the industry and it's adding new vibrance and interest....all good things for sure.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

Well the way I see it hitting a 500 yard target at the range is alot easier than hitting a deer at 500 yards in the country.There's alot of different variables in both situations,Time being a Major factor.

however you are right,about not hitting paper at 500 yards,you should'nt expect to hit a deer at 500 yards.

I do disagree with you on range finder's.i know my Rifle's quite well and I wont hesitate to take a Far shot at a whitetail buck.Range finder's are over rated and there's no way i'll ever pack one.

Not saying that it wont ever happen,but in 13 years of big game hunting,i've never shot an animal that I did'nt recover.

You guys can Goon me all you want,But Rangefinder's are JUNK!!!

[Tracker34]

[QUOTE=whitetail Junkie;781811][QUOTE=mr.pike

My 300 wsm will physically knock over a coyote!



Well I Hope so


[/QUOTE]

Any rifle will. Even a pellet gun. You just have to get close enough and swing it hard enough.

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I can't see any advantage except more expensive ammo for the ones you have narrowed it down to. 30-.06 should do everything and ammo is often more readily available and cheaper. then again I am biased to 30-06 and avoid the expense of mags.

X2. I'd say go shoot something at 300 yds with a 30-06 and if you feel you really need more recoil and "performance", buy a magnum. I've been happy with my 30-06 for 9 years now, and have no reason to go bigger. Maybe it's just a comfortable shooter at 9.5 lbs. JMHO

But then again, he did say "long range performer". How long?

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

You guys can Goon me all you want,But Rangefinder's are JUNK!!!

Now that right there is some funny stuff.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

But many people do own a laser rangfefinder and are quite proficient at ranges to 500 yards. I see more and more of them every day. Good to see actually. Long range shooting definitely is the newest fad in the industry and it's adding new vibrance and interest....all good things for sure.

x2 More people being interested in long range (target) shooting can only be good in the long run for hunting, the practice time pays dividends in more humane kills, which is what we should all be most concerned about.

Not how far we can tumble a coyote or elk with our uber magnums....

[garand]

Either is a fine cartridge.

Pick one in a rifle that fits you well, in a platform you like and shoot it.

As for 500 yard shots, anyone can buy a rangefinder and a ballistics program and think they have it figured. Shoot at paper at distance and you will soon find out that doping the wind is likely the most important consideration, and one that makes hunting at distance best left to the folks neurotic enough to figure it out. Otherwise you may end up with gutshot game or worse yet that pit in your stomach when you cant find what you just crippled.

Only my opinion for what it is worth.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But if you can't hit a paper target at 500 yards at a range,how would you expect to hit a game animal at 500 yards in the field?Many people don't even own a laser rangefinder to measure the distance,They guess at the distance,hope that the ballistic table is correct,and throw lead in the hope that they will get lucky.

I've killed a few animals at 500+ yards ( deer ) don't remember the last time I missed one actually.
And moose at 400 yrds.
I've never shot at a target past 200 yrds.
I trust my ballistic chart.
Guess I'm lucky.........

[elkhunter11]

x2 More people being interested in long range (target) shooting can only be good in the long run for hunting, the practice time pays dividends in more humane kills, which is what we should all be most concerned about.

Exactly,the equipment is only a small part of the equation,practice is by far the most important factor.Unfortunately,the majority of people don't make the time to practice,and they won't spend the money to buy ammunition to practice.

When I see people lining up the ammunition boxes in a store,comparing the prices,then buying one box of the cheapest load,I doubt very much that the person is planning on doing a lot of practicing.Often the same person shows up at the local range as a guest of a member,(or looking lost because someone lent him a range key,even though it is against the club rules,)shoots a few rounds at 100 yards, and quits when one round touches the bullseye.He then declares to everyone present that he is ready for those deer or moose,at any distance.

Unfortunately,I see that type of scenario at the local range on a regular basis.If you won't make the time,and you won't spend the money to practice,you might as well give up on the idea of long range shooting at game animals.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly,the equipment is only a small part of the equation,practice is by far the most important factor.Unfortunately,the majority of people don't make the time to practice,and they won't spend the money to buy ammunition to practice.

.

You sure make a lot of assumptions about how inept the "majority" of hunters are elk. From what I've seen, most of those getting into long range shooting are indeed willing to put the time and effort into doing it right. Perhaps things are different in the north than the south...I don't know.

[garand]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

I've killed a few animals at 500+ yards ( deer ) don't remember the last time I missed one actually.
And moose at 400 yrds.
I've never shot at a target past 200 yrds.
I trust my ballistic chart.
Guess I'm lucky.........

You must be quite an accomplished shot.

I have shot benchrest fun shoot competitions where guys have problems putting 5 rounds in a 6 inch circle at 300 yards with a hunting rifle. I would like to say it is the odd fellow, but probably more the norm.
These guys think they shoot well enough to enter such a contest, and are often humbled by the outcome. I know I was at the first one as well.

To make a clean harvest on a deer sized target I like to consider my "vital zone" at an 8 inch square.

I know i would feel pretty confident of putting a 3 shot group in that vital zone with a rangefinder and a bench at 500 yards on a calm day.

While hunting, even from a prone position with a rangefinder and nothing to dope the wind I wouldn't be so confident.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

I've killed a few animals at 500+ yards ( deer ) don't remember the last time I missed one actually.
And moose at 400 yrds.
I've never shot at a target past 200 yrds.
I trust my ballistic chart.
Guess I'm lucky.........

While that kind of talk does scare a lot of people MG......the way technology is advancing, stories like yours are becoming much more the norm. Good to see you enjoying the sport!

[elkhunter11]

I've killed a few animals at 500+ yards ( deer ) don't remember the last time I missed one actually.
And moose at 400 yrds.
I've never shot at a target past 200 yrds.
I trust my ballistic chart.
Guess I'm lucky.........

How many animals have you killed at 400+ yards,5?10?20?50?.If it's only a few,you could very well have been lucky.I have verified the trajectory charts by actual shooting,and it isn't uncommon to see a difference of 3" or 4" at 500 yards,even using actual chronographed velocities,and the bullet makers B.C.
Using estimated velocities,can add even more error.Using the charts listed for factory loads is no better,because they are using estimated velocities,and a sight height that may differ from yours.Then again temperature changes can also change velocity,which changes the trajectory,so if you use a chart corrected for 20 degrees C,and shoot at an animal,at -10 degrees C,the difference at 500 yards can be significant.

Most importantly of all,you can't learn to judge wind at longer distances,unless you practice in varying wind conditions.Knowing the wind drift at 500 yards in a 10mph wind is useless,if you don't know if the wind is 5mph or 20mph.The wind can change velocity and direction more than once in 500 yards.You have no way to measure the wind all the way out to the animal,so you either guess,or make an estimation based on experience from shooting in the wind.
Since you have never shot at a target past 200 yards,how did you learn to judge wind drift?Without actual practice shooting in the wind,you can only take a wild guess,and just hope that you are lucky.

[garand]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How many animals have you killed at 400+ yards,5?10?20?50?.If it's only a few,you could very well have been lucky.I have verified the trajectory charts by actual shooting,and it isn't uncommon to see a difference of 3" or 4" at 500 yards,even using actual chronographed velocities,and the bullet makers B.C.
Using estimated velocities,can add even more error.Using the charts listed for factory loads is no better,because they are using estimated velocities,and a sight height that may differ from yours.Then again temperature changes can also change velocity,which changes the trajectory,so if you use a chart corrected for 20 degrees C,and shoot at an animal,at -10 degrees C,the difference at 500 yards can be significant.

Most importantly of all,you can't learn to judge wind at longer distances,unless you practice in varying wind conditions.Knowing the wind drift at 500 yards in a 10mph wind is useless,if you don't know if the wind is 5mph or 20mph.The wind can change velocity and direction more than once in 500 yards.You have no way to measure the wind all the way out to the animal,so you either guess,or make an estimation based on experience from shooting in the wind.
Since you have never shot at a target past 200 yards,how did you learn to judge wind drift?Without actual practice shooting in the wind,you can only take a wild guess,and just hope that you are lucky.

Definitely things to think about there.

And I agree with your observation about the average hunter. It is a busy world and many folks just don't have the time or inclination to devote to the kind of practice to become proficient at long range.

Shooting is nothing more than a bucket of variables. Increased distance magnifies them.

[elkhunter11]

You sure make a lot of assumptions about how inept the "majority" of hunters are elk. From what I've seen, most of those getting into long range shooting are indeed willing to put the time and effort into doing it right. Perhaps things are different in the north than the south...I don't know.

I spend a lot of time at the local range,and I base my opinions on watching people as I let the barrels cool.Given the time that I spend at the local range,I likely observe hundreds of shooters each year.Where I live,many people make six figure salaries,and they can afford to buy higher end guns and optics,but it is hard for me to understand how someone that can afford a $1500 to $2500 rifle/scope package,isn't willing to spend some extra cash on ammunition to practice.

But it's not all money,just listening to these people at the range,it becomes very apparent,that many of them think that if they purchase the right gear,they don't need to practice.They think that the right gear can replace skill and practise.

As much as I shoot,I see some of the same old faces perhaps 20 or 30 times every year,yet I see many of the supposed high tech/long range shooters perhaps 2 or 3 times at most,usually just before the hunting season opens.The simple fact is,that although most of us regulars use gear similar to the two or three time per year high tech/long range shooters,the regulars seem to be far more consistent especially when the wind comes up.The two or three time per year shooters usually miss due to wind drift,and then adjust until they hit the target once,then go home,because it is too windy to shoot.I doubt that they go home when hunting,because it is too windy to shoot.

Yes ,more and more people are shooting longer ranges,and some of those people do make the effort to become competent,but many hardly make any effort at all,and it shows in their shooting.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How many animals have you killed at 400+ yards,5?10?20?50?.If it's only a few,you could very well have been lucky.I have verified the trajectory charts by actual shooting,and it isn't uncommon to see a difference of 3" or 4" at 500 yards,even using actual chronographed velocities,and the bullet makers B.C.
Using estimated velocities,can add even more error.Using the charts listed for factory loads is no better,because they are using estimated velocities,and a sight height that may differ from yours.Then again temperature changes can also change velocity,which changes the trajectory,so if you use a chart corrected for 20 degrees C,and shoot at an animal,at -10 degrees C,the difference at 500 yards can be significant.

Most importantly of all,you can't learn to judge wind at longer distances,unless you practice in varying wind conditions.Knowing the wind drift at 500 yards in a 10mph wind is useless,if you don't know if the wind is 5mph or 20mph.The wind can change velocity and direction more than once in 500 yards.You have no way to measure the wind all the way out to the animal,so you either guess,or make an estimation based on experience from shooting in the wind.
Since you have never shot at a target past 200 yards,how did you learn to judge wind drift?Without actual practice shooting in the wind,you can only take a wild guess,and just hope that you are lucky.

I'd say I've taken maybe 5 deer out that far..... I've missed a few as well, thats part of hunting.
You can be the guy who can ''get it on and bang a gong'' at whatever the heck range you want your bullet to fly I suppose.
That same guy could miss a deer at 200 yards. No ?
There's this strange phenomenon that comes over a lot of shooters that may make their crosshairs kinda like not settle down if you know what I mean.
I guess my point is it's not the ''end all'' to long range shooting and does not guarantee anything.
And, I wouldn't consider myself an ''accomplished'' shooter as somebody indicates. Probably a good shooter... but I know guys like you are probably better because of the time you put in. Fair enough.
And don't get me wrong..... I would love to spend more time playing around and shooting longer distances. It can't hurt.

But I have this major problem...............it's called WORK

elk, it's okay...no one is ever going to be as proficient as you with a rifle but from my experience, the "majority" of hunters are not a bunch of bumbling baffoons with a rifle. Long range shooting is becoming easier every day....I'm always shocked when I introduce someone to it how quickly they can become proficient at 500 yards. But then again I'm a minute of a barndoor shooter usually so I'm used to people being as competent or beter shooters than me...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

You guys can Goon me all you want,But Rangefinder's are JUNK!!!

Jeepers, maybe you should tell us how you REALLY feel about range finders??!!
Cat

[garand]

[QUOTE=Mountain Guy;781969]I'd say I've taken maybe 5 deer out that far..... I've missed a few as well, thats part of hunting.
You can be the guy who can ''get it on and bang a gong'' at whatever the heck range you want your bullet to fly I suppose.
That same guy could miss a deer at 200 yards. No ?
There's this strange phenomenon that comes over a lot of shooters that may make their crosshairs kinda like not settle down if you know what I mean.
I guess my point is it's not the ''end all'' to long range shooting and does not guarantee anything.
And, I wouldn't consider myself an ''accomplished'' shooter as somebody indicates. Probably a good shooter... but I know guys like you are probably better because of the time you put in. Fair enough.
And don't get me wrong..... I would love to spend more time playing around and shooting longer distances. It can't hurt.

But I have this major problem...............it's called WORK [QUOTE]

If I could only figure out how to stop shaking like a cat ****eing razorblades when that big Whitetail steps out maybe I could shoot farther too

[browning375]

If your looking for the true best for a 300. look at a 300 weatherby, they have the best ballistics of them all!