Not all brass is the same

[fps plus]

Several years ago I built my Uncle a 6.5 x284 , the only brass available then was Norma . I cut the chamber for the Norma brass , the bolt would just close on the Norma . The reason was to hopefully give a little better brass life . Just recently he decide he wanted more brass to be able to shoot more without having to return to the loading bench . This time he purchased hornady

Well he loaded the Hornady and to his dismay they would not chamber . I tried to bump the shoulder back but could move far enough . He wanted to use this brass so I pulled the barrel and cut the chamber a little deeper. The difference between the Norma and Hornady was .004 -006“.

[duceman]

that difference also translates to internal capacity, which i'm sure you already know. gotta start over with the loads, lee

[ram crazy]

I had the same problem when reloading with Hornady brass. What I've found that has fixed my problem is I started lubing the inside of the neck before I pressed the bullet in and problem solved. The problem I seen was the Hornady brass is softer and when you push the bullet into the neck dry or without lubing the inside of the neck is it's enough friction between the bullet and the neck that it swells the casing at the shoulder just enough to not make the shell chamber in the rifle. After I started lubing the necks there were no issues. I have only found this problem with Hornady brass.

[fps plus]

Not quite the same issue as he had brass that had not been loaded and would not chamber. I measured them all with a depth micrometer in the chamber when the barrel was off and the Hornady brass is longer in the shoulder

[marky_mark]

Buy lapua brass for the 6.5x284

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I had the same problem when reloading with Hornady brass. What I've found that has fixed my problem is I started lubing the inside of the neck before I pressed the bullet in and problem solved. The problem I seen was the Hornady brass is softer and when you push the bullet into the neck dry or without lubing the inside of the neck is it's enough friction between the bullet and the neck that it swells the casing at the shoulder just enough to not make the shell chamber in the rifle. After I started lubing the necks there were no issues. I have only found this problem with Hornady brass.

I have loaded hundreds and hundreds of rounds in Hornady cases. Never have I seen this phenomenon. And the notion that it is soft is a silly one. Because it isn’t.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Several years ago I built my Uncle a 6.5 x284 , the only brass available then was Norma . I cut the chamber for the Norma brass , the bolt would just close on the Norma . The reason was to hopefully give a little better brass life . Just recently he decide he wanted more brass to be able to shoot more without having to return to the loading bench . This time he purchased hornady

Well he loaded the Hornady and to his dismay they would not chamber . I tried to bump the shoulder back but could move far enough . He wanted to use this brass so I pulled the barrel and cut the chamber a little deeper. The difference between the Norma and Hornady was .004 -006“.

Interestingly enough, in the 30-06, foreign brass measures three to four thou shorter at the datum line than the domestic stuff. That includes Lapua and Hornady in that mix.

[stob]

My .02 but Hornady and Federal brass suck plain and simple...Remington is a close 3rd ...Norma, Nosler, Lapua.. never an issue..Winchester is pretty good too

[32-40win]

I'm a little curious as to which way that chamber was/is, vs the min spec on the SAAMI specs as you originally cut it, vs where it winds up on the new spec? And to hear what difference it winds up making to the load.

[fps plus]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

I'm a little curious as to which way that chamber was/is, vs the min spec on the SAAMI specs as you originally cut it, vs where it winds up on the new spec? And to hear what difference it winds up making to the load.

When I cut the original chamber using the Norma brass as the “go gauge “, the bolt would not close on the go gauge . After recutting the chamber to fit the Hornady brass the bolt will close on the go gauge and will not close on the no go gauge.

I’m not criticizing anyone’s brass , just stating what I found.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by chuck

I have loaded hundreds and hundreds of rounds in Hornady cases. Never have I seen this phenomenon. And the notion that it is soft is a silly one. Because it isn’t.

I don't I'm not near as intelligent as you, oh wait a minute. Na forget about it your not worth my time! I've loaded new Hornady and fire Hornady brass in 22-250, 308, 280ai, and 6.5 with all the same results. Can't explain it. So please feel free to tell me why old wise one.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by chuck

I have loaded hundreds and hundreds of rounds in Hornady cases. Never have I seen this phenomenon. And the notion that it is soft is a silly one. Because it isn’t.

I think they all hover around the same area of hardness. If one were to random test all the above brands with different batches the list would change order every time you tested a different lot of brass.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by stob

My .02 but Hornady and Federal brass suck plain and simple...Remington is a close 3rd ...Norma, Nosler, Lapua.. never an issue..Winchester is pretty good too

And I have found that Winchester is not nearly as good as it used to be. These days, I prefer Remington to Winchester. Lapua is my preferred case, if it is available for the cartridge.

[saskbooknut]

Did similarly on my wife's 7x57 - tight chamber rather than to SAAMI minimum headspace gauge.
I learned from that experience.
I knew beforehand that brass varied. Sometimes you can outsmart yourself.
It made no sense to create a rifle that couldn't handle factory cartridges reliably.

[Ranger CS]

Of the primary brass manufactures, besides Lapua, which you pay dearly for, what manufactures produce the most consistent product

[Pathfinder76]

Consistency?

Norma and Hornady. At least from what I have used.

[Ranger CS]

Bought a rifle recently that came with several rounds of Winchester nickel plated brass. I have never used plated brass of any kind. Would like to hear opinions concerning nickel plated brass.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Of the primary brass manufactures, besides Lapua, which you pay dearly for, what manufactures produce the most consistent product

You may want to recheck the price of Lapua brass. I bought 7-08 and 308 for about the same price as Winchester. $100 for Lapua versus Win at $85 for 100 brass. Norma makes very good brass but any I found was double Lapua. ADG and Henderson make excellent brass if you can find it and in the cartridge you want. Privi and Sellier and Bellot both make really good brass that is usually not expensive.

The long and short of it is by weight sorting, flash hole cleaning, primer pocket uniformiing etc you can make inexpensive brass into excellent brass. It is about how much work you are prepared to do to save some money.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dean2

You may want to recheck the price of Lapua brass. I bought 7-08 and 308 for about the same price as Winchester. $100 for Lapua versus Win at $85 for 100 brass. Norma makes very good brass but any I found was double Lapua. ADG and Henderson make excellent brass if you can find it and in the cartridge you want. Privi and Sellier and Bellot both make really good brass that is usually not expensive.

The long and short of it is by weight sorting, flash hole cleaning, primer pocket uniformiing etc you can make inexpensive brass into excellent brass. It is about how much work you are prepared to do to save some money.

This is a great point on cost.

[Quest206]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Bought a rifle recently that came with several rounds of Winchester nickel plated brass. I have never used plated brass of any kind. Would like to hear opinions concerning nickel plated brass.

From my experience the plated brass doesn't last as long. I get a lot fewer reloads before it has to be discarded and If it can be annealed, I'm not sure how it would work. I use the plated brass for hunting loads only so there is no mistake when I am selecting ammo to leave the house.
All my other brass I anneal every 3 firings and have some Norma brass with 15 reloads and still showing no sign of failure. I have also had very good success with PRVI brass which is very reasonably priced if you can find it in the caliber you want.

[FallAirFever]

Originally Posted by Dean2

...

The long and short of it is by weight sorting, flash hole cleaning, primer pocket uniformiing etc you can make inexpensive brass into excellent brass. It is about how much work you are prepared to do to save some money.

Dean, what steps would you recommend to do with the inexpensive brass to make it closer to excellent. I am a big fan of shiny consistent brass.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by FallAirFever

Dean, what steps would you recommend to do with the inexpensive brass to make it closer to excellent. I am a big fan of shiny consistent brass.

Weight sort it into .5 grain lots, for 308 or similar, 1 grain lots for anything 338 or bigger., debur the flash hole, uniform the primer pockets and depending on how consistent the brass thickness is on the necks you may want to lightly turn 2/3s of the neck to even up neck tension. Consistent neck tension is probably one of the biggest controls areas for low SD and ES but this only really matters if you shoot over 300 yards regularly.For regular hunting loads you will likely never notice the difference between neck turned and not.

When you are shooting, cull any brass that throws a flier that you don't think was caused by your shooting. Take all the culled brass and put it in a batch for recycle or to load Trail Boss round ball small game loads..

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Weight sort it into .5 grain lots, for 308 or similar, 1 grain lots for anything 338 or bigger., debur the flash hole, uniform the primer pockets and depending on how consistent the brass thickness is on the necks you may want to lightly turn 2/3s of the neck to even up neck tension. Consistent neck tension is probably one of the biggest controls areas for low SD and ES but this only really matters if you shoot over 300 yards regularly.For regular hunting loads you will likely never notice the difference between neck turned and not.

When you are shooting, cull any brass that throws a flier that you don't think was caused by your shooting. Take all the culled brass and put it in a batch for recycle or to load Trail Boss round ball small game loads..

This is my practice...good advice

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Weight sort it into .5 grain lots, for 308 or similar, 1 grain lots for anything 338 or bigger., debur the flash hole, uniform the primer pockets and depending on how consistent the brass thickness is on the necks you may want to lightly turn 2/3s of the neck to even up neck tension. Consistent neck tension is probably one of the biggest controls areas for low SD and ES but this only really matters if you shoot over 300 yards regularly.For regular hunting loads you will likely never notice the difference between neck turned and not.

When you are shooting, cull any brass that throws a flier that you don't think was caused by your shooting. Take all the culled brass and put it in a batch for recycle or to load Trail Boss round ball small game loads..

Interesting suggestions re. brass prep Dean. I have done the sorting thing, but then up with 3 or 4 lots. If the brass is for one rifle using one particular load do you shoot all of one lot then check and adjust your rifle as necessary for subsequent other lots? I clean flash holes but have not done anything with primer pockets with new brass. I clean the pockets on fired brass and discard any cases with loose oversized pockets. Is it consistent depth you are wanting to achieve? What manufacture's tool do you use on primer pockets?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Interesting suggestions re. brass prep Dean. I have done the sorting thing, but then up with 3 or 4 lots. If the brass is for one rifle using one particular load do you shoot all of one lot then check and adjust your rifle as necessary for subsequent other lots? I clean flash holes but have not done anything with primer pockets with new brass. I clean the pockets on fired brass. Is it consistent depth you are wanting to achieve? What manufacture's tool do you use on primer pockets?

I use a Lyman tool to uniform the primer pocket, they make a Small Rifle and LR version, and they make it depth adjustable. Yes you are trying to get even depth, but you also don't want them too deep.

As far as Brass sorted into lots by weight, yes you will end up with 3 or 4 batches. I usually weight sort at lest 300 brass to get big enough batches by weight, though with most brass you will get the majority of it at one or two weights. The other two will be quite a bit smaller batches. So for example batch 1 might be 120 to 120.5 and represent 70% of the cases, next 119.4 to 119.9 etc. If I have 308 brass that is more than 1.5 grains off the 70% weight range they get used for small game loads, I never try to make those into regular ammo. I have found that as long as they are loaded as batches I have never had to adjust the powder weight, just have to adjust the POI a little with a change in batch. If 1 grain weight difference in brass weight makes your groups fall apart you don't have the right powder load and/or seating depth. When you hit on the right powder load, a full 1/2 grain of powder up and down from the tightest group should still produce very good groups. If it doesn't large temperature swings would cause your groups to fall apart too.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Bought a rifle recently that came with several rounds of Winchester nickel plated brass. I have never used plated brass of any kind. Would like to hear opinions concerning nickel plated brass.

If you think Lapua is expensive, you haven't looked at the price of Norma, or Nosler, or some of the newer manufacturers.

[catnthehat]

I used to sort brass, uniform primer pockets and flash holes, turn neck for uniformity, inside ream for donuts , and weigh spin and sort bullets as well as chase lands and trickle every charge.
I found after exhausting tests that until I got past 500 meters it did not matter near so much on my target rifles as concentrating more on the wind and my form.
Inside 500 meters it did not matter hardly.
On my hunting rifles on an animal it did not matter as far as making a killing shot goes.

Now, for piece of mind , I simply keep head stamps matched and use Lapua brass if I can get it, and throw my charges on a Harrel measure , otherwise I do not worry about my brass except to check it for defects before and after I load it.
What I do worry about is putting a proper shot sequence together when I am practicing so that when I am in the field I only have to check the condition and concentrate on killing the quarry I am after with one clean shot.
Cat

[Ranger CS]

Thank you everyone for your insights, much appreciated. When hunting I try very hard to keep my distances well inside of 500 yards, so I guess I should not be as concerned about detail as I sometimes am. For me developing the most accurate load I can is all about giving me confidence when I pull the trigger while hunting. I have to admit, striving for consistent accuracy for me is also somewhat of a sport and a challenge within itself.

[Ranger CS]

Another question for you with lots of experience with loading detail. When developing a load for a particular bullet how do you sequence the two variables of powder charge and seating depth, knowing you should only adjust one variable at a time?

[Deer Hunter]

like cat, I sort brass by headstamp and weigh them to within 2-3 grains. Sorting to 0.5 gr takes a lot of brass and isn't necessary for the stuff I shoot.