Need a "gunsmith"? be very careful (rant) (long detailed read so you may want to skip it)

[wwbirds]

I often see posts asking for a gunsmith near ? or here? Most often myself or others can direct them to one of many great ones in alberta bc or even quebec if incredible engraving is required. I learned the hard way you really want to be careful who you trust.

Several friends on FB are friends with an individual who claimed to have a copying lathe and provided pretty good pictures of stocks he had made.
I had acquired a first year production FN trombone in 2019 and the stock was badly damaged and rough although the barrel was quite good for a 1922 rifle.
The older trombones were square tangs while newer ones are round and Irv at Western Gun only had round tangs in stock last year so I messaged this individual to see if he could make a trombone stock and he said bring it over.
I dropped it off in High river on March 17th.
Couple days later he has a picture of it all apart saying on FB that it was very dirty and rusty. almost 100 years old no surprises yet.
Few days later he called and says I hope I didnt over step my authority on this but Irv in Edmonton now has square tang in stock along with forestocks for just over $200 which is less than I could make one for so I ordered them along with a couple new screws and a return spring. No problem screws and return spring were required anyway so why not get it all in one order with flat rate postage.
Next contact from him says polishing bolt and still some little marks "do I want it jeweled to make it look nice" Very firm no from me as I am pretty sure no factory trombones in 1922 had jewelled bolts. His response was "these things are worth over $1500 in USA so we should make it nice"
I explained to him that USA prices mean nothing in Canada as John M Browning sold the trombone patent to Remington which became their model 12 .22 pump. He could not produce or distribute trombones in the USA so contacted FN in 1922 to produce them for Browning sales in Canada and australia only with FN licensed to distribute them in Europe.
I further explained because it is a first year production with low 4 digit serial # I probably paid to much as I already have $350 into a rifle that may be worth $700 so I may not be able to even have it reblued if I go over my $300 -$400 budget for restocking.
Next contact he is complaining on FB about trying to get the rifle trigger assembly back in after polishing it.
Last week he tells me on Wednesday that if it dries overnight I should be able to pick it up the next day. What drying is required on fitting a stock?
He said had to used some release agent and bedding material to get a good smooth wood to metal fit. told him in 1922 I am sure the craftsmen in Leige handcrafted stocks to fit metal perfectly without using epoxy. Told him I would try to get there the next day and send me the bill and I will EMT.
He wrote back he is not charging me for the 6 hours he tried to get the trigger assembly back in working after polishing. I asked him why he would take it apart for a restocking. His stupid comment about factory restoration left me fuming and I responded factory restorations dont use epoxy on a 100 year old rifle and internals were best left to trained gunsmiths to deal with problems when it is sent away for bluing and internals had to be removed.
Couple hours later I get a bill and email address to emt payment for $625.
I went ballistic. Dennis Davidson in BC did a fit and finish plus incredible 24 line skip line checkering for me in 2017 for $500!
Christian Lemieux in Quebec charged me $300 in 2018.
I phoned him and said he is way off mark and pricing himself right out of the market. he claimed the bill is justified as he has a solid 5.5 hours into fitting and polishing all internals at $65. per hour.
told him he could stick the rifle where the sun does not shine before I pay $625 for him to try to learn how to restock and reassemble a rifle I never asked him to take apart.
this week he said pay him for the parts he ordered with shipping of $275 plus whatever I wanted to leave him for his time. told him I would send $400 as my upper budget amount originally discussed.
Picked it up today and lines of epoxy visible where wood meets metal and the wood looks exactly like it left edmonton with no shaping to meet metal at all.
Even at $125 I paid way too much!
End rant!!

[JustBen]

These so called gunsmiths are basically criminals. I've had similar experiences in the past with different vendors.

[Steyr101]

Honestly, there are great gunsmiths, and there are **** poor ones.

Seems like this guy really dicked you around and had the nerve to try and collect an outrageous invoice.

Having worked in the firearms industry for many years at both the wholesale and retail level (and having worked with some fantastic 'smiths along the way) I can absolutely say that a good smith won't charge for learning a new action or procedure. They consider it a learning opportunity and will usually let you know this beforehand. A big no-no in the industry to is go rogue and do work on a customers gun without authorization.

I just got some work done on a long range rig, and gave the smith carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. Fitting three barrels (shouldered with brakes), trigger, finishing. Invoice came to just under 2 grand and worth every single penny. Left it all up to his experience and vision and couldn't be happier.

This guy in High River seems like quite the hack.. thanks for the heads up to avoid him.

[fishtank]

wow this remind me of that bad taxidemy ...

[Drewski Canuck]

WOW!!!

That first Taxi job in the upper left hand corner reminds me of a girl I used to know.

Always wondered where she ended up! Mystery solved!!

Drewski

[leeelmer]

Yes yes and yes.
I have had similar experiences with so call gunsmiths.
One in particular was.
Remington 700 laminate stainless mountain rifle
It shot terrible right out of the box. 280 rem
I was told I should have it bedded and the trigger worked.
Ok
Paid for that.
Took to the range. Shot twice and a chunk of the stock broke out behind the safety.
I was told the Remington stocks are junk.
Ok lets do a new stock
New barrel
Chamber in 280ai
Accurize action
Remember i had all ready paid for the trigger to be reworked and the first stock to be bedded.
Well got my new gun back.
It had a camo bell and carlson stock. Bedded
JB welded sleeve on the bolt(to tighten tolerances) looked horrid
Still had the j lock
Lapped lugs
Scope mounted in tally rings(my scope)
Cost???
$3100
Plus the work from before.
Poor work for premium dollars

[wwbirds]

This is his idea of fit and finish

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[Wrongside]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

This is his idea of fit and finish

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

Wow. **** poor.

If you’d name the ‘gunsmith’ it may save others some aggravation in the future?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Wrongside

Wow. **** poor.

If you’d name the ‘gunsmith’ it may save others some aggravation in the future?

Can I guess? :-)

[Wrongside]

Originally Posted by chuck

Can I guess? :-)

LOL. Likely get it in one.

[wwbirds]

Can I guess? :-)

Sure go for it. Only giving one hint in that he was banned here after a few suspensions so gitrdun, no prize but if I go ding ding ding you got it right!

Rob, call me or FB message me. Send me that gun, I’ll fix whatever I can for free. I owe you one, and we’ll be even.😉

Thanks buddy I appreciate that really. I have all the wood working tools to get rid of the epoxy if he really used a release agent between wood and metal. Can also take the excess wood off for smooth transition I just didnt bother ordering wood for this one from irv because last time I spoke to his daughter they only had round tangs in stoick so thought I had to get one made with a duplicating lather. should have just waited.
After taking it apart he couldn't put it back together so as long as I have everything in the little zip lock bag he attached to the stock and inside the receiver I am hoping by taking one of my completely restored ones apart I can see where everything goes that he messed up on trigger cross bolt safety assembly.

[Who Da Fisherman]

Oh my 😳
I just dropped mine of to someone I don't know other than recommend, holding my breath.
Now that stuffed weasle, I kinda would like him lol.
WDF

[REMINGTON JIM]

NOT so NICE fit and Finish - RJ

[jbrow397]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

This is his idea of fit and finish

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

Yikes. Norinco, Rossi and mystery Turkish builders put out superior fit and finish compared to that

[bat119]

OMG is that white stuff epoxy?

[leo]

Rob, call me or FB message me. Send me that gun, I’ll fix whatever I can for free. I owe you one, and we’ll be even.😉

[BubbaFett]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

This is his idea of fit and finish

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

Wow. I did mine myself--first time ever even disassembling a rifle all the way.... Suddenly the flaws I see in mine don't seem so bad!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NWtsD64cmGjeH3Vf7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nrVnNBuEBxeGVkiq9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XyKCytGHypf4LiCZ8

[leo]

Going to close this thread, it seems to be mostly sorted out between the 2 parties.

Leo

[stob]

IDK ... that work is a cartoon! ... folks will be folks, you just can't come up with the S*** that some will pass off as great work in many professions and still think they nailed it ... Leo is a great guy and very knowledgeable ... Fishtank needs to start a thread on bad taxidermy results .. that weasel is hilarious as are the other 3

[Deer Hunter]

His work is very popular on Facebook. You see he can respond there.
Knowing he's been banned here and posting your dissatisfaction; how do you expect resolve? Maybe you two grown men should have clearly spelled out the expectations and cost before you ventured down the road to restore this 300$ parts rifle into a timeless beauty.
Maybe I'm off base as I find quality and fine craftsmanship in a Savage axis.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

His work is very popular on Facebook. You see he can respond there.
Knowing he's been banned here and posting your dissatisfaction; how do you expect resolve? Maybe you two grown men should have clearly spelled out the expectations and cost before you ventured down the road to restore this 300$ parts rifle into a timeless beauty.
Maybe I'm off base as I find quality and fine craftsmanship in a Savage axis.

Maybe you missed the pictures posted on this thread?

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by chuck

Maybe you missed the pictures posted on this thread?

Could there be 2 sides to this ****ing match?
I've seen these pics and the ones on Facebook. You've seen those?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Could there be 2 sides to this ****ing match?
I've seen these pics and the ones on Facebook. You've seen those?

Do you have pictures from a different camera or angle that makes that work look better?

[wwbirds]

Received a text from Yvan first thing this morning saying he was going to refund the money I paid and hoped that would fix any animosity. I just received the EMT and thanked him.
The rifle has been packed up and sent to Leo with my thanks and he will try to remove the bedding compound or what ever that epoxy looking material is and shape and fit the stock properly.
Found a Youtube video last night from Arts gunshop entitled "restoring the Browning Trombone" It is 29 minutes long and details the disassembly of the trombone and at about the 16 minute mark it details putting the trigger and cross lock safety back together so I am confident we can put it back together after Leo works his magic (Cat said that).
Talked to Christian at his home outside Quebec city on Wednesday and while he is safe with his young family in a suburb he says that they expected non essential businesses to reopen April 15th but since Covid has ravaged Montreal and surrounding areas it is now expected businesses will remain closed until at least the end of June. He will have the hot bluing up and running for the trombone in July.
Health is wealth and everything else can be fixed. Be safe out there!

[DiabeticKripple]

Glad to hear it got resolved.

Good on him for owning up to his mistake and refunding the money.

[Dean2]

Good to hear this worked out. Brings back some of my respect for Yvan. Even the very best smiths will make mistakes, it is all about how they deal with them.

[Deer Hunter]

And you got a free stock out of it!
Glad you guys are besties again.

[silver lab]

I would imagine he was looking at this thread, only problem with that is, the only way to get good work from him is to get bad work and post it on AO. Lol