Combination guns: thoughts?

[oldjeda]

Didn’t know which forum to post this under so lets start here. Any thoughts, experiences, or recommendations on combination guns? Always appealed to me and there’s so many different types out there. From the 410/22 up to drilling’s with 3 barrels. On my wish list possibly in the future. Looking for something fun and simple to wander around with and maybe put some meat in the pot. When I was younger I was in love with a buddy’s 410/22 savage. Now I see European makes in 12, 16, and 20 gauge with several different centerfire calibers.

A buddy bought a new model 22/410 savage but I'm not impressed with the quality although still a relatively decent grouse and squirrel gun.

Anyway, tell us what you know/think.

[Selkirk]

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[Dean2]

I am a big fan of combo guns and Drillings. I have owned a few different ones over the years. Tradex carries a very good selection, well worth having a look at their site.

For big game I really like the 7x57R for the rifle cartridge. I have had a couple of drillings and a few Combos that would all produce 3 shot groups well under MOA. My last drilling was a 1985 Suhl 12/12 over 7x57R with a Kreighoff 22 insert that you could put into the left shotgun barrel, and a claw mount Zeiss 6X scope. Made for a very versatile hunting gun.

For small game, the Baikal 22/20 Gauge is a well built option that are fairly cheap, about $800 new.

[M.C. Gusto]

There is a nice BRNO combo at Sights and Arms in St Albert on consignment you should look at.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

There is a nice BRNO combo at Sights and Arms in St Albert on consignment you should look at.

That one is worth looking at to see a BRNO up close but they were asking almost $1,400 for it last I saw it and that is close to double what that gun should actually sell for. Even in absolutely pristine shape the Bruno combo guns are $900 max. Now if it was a Heym or some other much more refined gun, I might consider the asking price a lot closer to reasonable.

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by Dean2

That one is worth looking at to see a BRNO up close but they were asking almost $1,400 for it last I saw it and that is close to double what that gun should actually sell for. Even in absolutely pristine shape the Bruno combo guns are $900 max. Now if it was a Heym or some other much more refined gun, I might consider the asking price a lot closer to reasonable.

Whats you opinion on Valmet combos? Good? Worth a thousand used in 95% condition?

[KegRiver]

They never appealed to me.

I prefer hunting one thing at a time. It doesn't bother me in the least to walk past a Grouse when Moose hunting or the tother way round.

The Scotts blood in my I guess. I like the simple things in life.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Whats you opinion on Valmet combos? Good? Worth a thousand used in 95% condition?

Check out Tradex; I hear that they very fairly grade their guns on there, and there are some pretty decent ones. You can pick up a nice Valmet there for about half that. Maybe slightly more for a high grade one, or more desirable chambering.

Looks like most of them, will be pretty much a reloading only type affair.

[Steelhorse Cowboy]

This reason is why I buy Hammond Game Getters for my game rifles.

[Pioneer2]

Like a 1/2 hr wrestling match to reload.Mine is in .270 and I gave up on it.Accuracy sucked.The earlier version was steel and worked a lot better.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Steelhorse Cowboy

This reason is why I buy Hammond Game Getters for my game rifles.

I never understood the Hammond game getter appeal. Is it not simpler to just load a round with 8-13 grs of red dot ( cartridge dependant) ? Seems like those game getters are a hasstle...maybe I'm missing something.

[32-40win]

SXS rifle over shotgun, or an O/U , and a SxS shotgun over rifle does intrigue me. Trouble is, I'd want one of each. Seldom see the right combination for my tastes. A 6.5x57R or 7x57 or 65R over 20 would be nice, and a 3" 12 w/chokes over 6.5x57R or 7x57R or 65R would be good. Can't afford that now, it'll have to go on the wish list.

[fordtruckin]

Of the ones I’ve seen lately they look like someone tried to cross a Prius with a corvette... UGLY! For a kids first gun or a purely survival tool I get it but even the price of the savage would make me think twice. I can get a good 22 and a single shot .410 for cheaper than what they are asking. (Add in they would look way better too imo)

[Tactical Lever]

Kind of neat; seems like a good gun to have on a long hike in hunting trip, or camping.

This has kind of reignited a want on my list of must-have guns. *sigh* Too long a list, too short on time and money... Well one of these days I'll have to pick up one. How's the accuracy and regulation of the less expensive ones? Or would it even be noticeable with one barrel being shotgun?

There much difference between the Valmet, Brno/CZ, and Tikka O/U combo guns? Most of them look like they're built like tanks, which is a little appealing.

[Pioneer2]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

I never understood the Hammond game getter appeal. Is it not simpler to just load a round with 8-13 grs of red dot ( cartridge dependant) ? Seems like those game getters are a hasstle...maybe I'm missing something.

Depending on the round 4-6gr of unique and a cast 90-100gr pistol bullet.I use 3 gr of Bullseye /a 93gr Lee Tokarev cast in my CZ 527 7.62x39 for chickens.Same bullet used in 30-30,303 30-06 etc with Unique.

[Dean2]

Thre is a definite order of quality in Combos and Drillings. Heym, Kreighoff, Simson Suhl and other German makers followed by Chapius, are at the top of the pile. Brno and Baikal are a well built gun but they aren't elegant. Of the commonly found ones that are somewhat elegant I would rate them in order of quality as Valmet (owned since 1986 by Sako), CZ, FAIR etc. The great advantage to combos and drillings is their versatiliy. You can shoot shot or slugs out of the shotgun barrel, put an insert in the shotgun barrel to shoot 22RF or 22 Mag, and the rifle for longer shots. Any of the 7x57R versions are plenty accurate to shoot to 400 yards.






I have a couple of the Hammond Game Getters. I have been able to get good groups with them but they are quite fiddly to use. Switched instead to neck sized 308 military brass with 4 grains of Trail Boss and a round 308 calibre ball, Hornady #1 Buckshot is the perfect size, stuck into the mouth. This will give GREAT groups to 30 yards. The advantage to a round ball is they lose velocity quickly so carry far less than even a 22 RF.




Same idea but in a 45-70 case.




308 with round ball and TB at 25 yards, top left is 5 shots of 4.0 grains and lower right is 3 shots at 3.7 grains.

[Surly]

Fine quality German drillings certainly seem elegant to me! Peter Hofer even makes vierlings and funflings! I'd imagine that they aren't quite as practical as a drilling, but you have to appreciate the skill needed to construct such a contraption!

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Surly

Fine quality German drillings certainly seem elegant to me! Peter Hofer even makes vierlings and funflings! I'd imagine that they aren't quite as practical as a drilling, but you have to appreciate the skill needed to construct such a contraption!

You can pay huge money for them due to engraving, wood etc but you can also get a great drilling like the one I posted above for about 3,500 bucks and that included the claw mounted scope, Kreighoff insert and the ammo..

[Surly]

Originally Posted by Dean2

You can pay huge money for them due to engraving, wood etc but you can also get a great drilling like the one I posted above for about 3,500 bucks and that included the claw mounted scope, Kreighoff insert and the ammo..

It's a beaut of a gun Dean. I wouldn't feel comfortable walking around the woods with a $250k art piece. I'd probably cry if I scratched it!

Merkel makes a high quality, reasonably priced drilling too.

[catnthehat]

I have owned three different Brno combination guns, two in 308/12 and one in 7X57R/12, all were very good guns.I just found that I was loading thee 12 gauge barrel more with slugs than bird shot, so just went to O/U express rifles inn those days.
Cat

[birdman86]

I've got a Chiappa double badger 22lr/20g. Great little gun for the price but I rarely use it (wanna buy it??)
If you're a good shot it'd be great for grouse but I always seem to need that second round. Probably good for rabbits too but never used it for that.

[elkhunter11]

Other than a pure survival gun, I just can't come up with a reason to own one.

[oldjeda]

Some great comments here. I’ve been watching Tradex for sure and that’s kinda why I got interested again. I personally find the double and triple barrel guns rather attractive but then I’ve always been a break action and double barrel fan.

[chuckster136]

I think the combination firearms are great but I have trouble keeping them. I had a Savage 24C 22/20 gauge for years but somehow my oldest boy wrangled it from me. Then I had a Savage Series P 22/20 gauge that my youngest son ended up with. Followed by a Savage V 30-30/20 gauge that my brother talked me out of. Now I am left with only a Valmet 308/12 gauge topped with a Leupold Vari X III 1.5 x 5 scope and spare o/u 12 gauge barrels. I hope to hang on to it. It is accurate and makes a good truck gun but a little heavy if walking far.

[oldjeda]

Okay now you’v got me thinking along another route. My kid has a double barrel 12 gauge that I could play with and try an insert or two in one of the barrels. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations as to where to start looking for such a thing?
Thanks again

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by oldjeda

Okay now you’v got me thinking along another route. My kid has a double barrel 12 gauge that I could play with and try an insert or two in one of the barrels. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations as to where to start looking for such a thing?

Thanks again

Are you talking about a rifle cartridge insert or a shotgun shell insert? I have used little skeeter 410 inserts, Browning 410 inserts and I have a set of 20,28, and 410 Briley side kicks ( which are fantastic!) .The Bailey inserts are not really cheap but they are excellent
Cat

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[Dean2]

If you want one of the Krieghoff style 22 inserts like the one pictured above it is going to take some looking. You also have to have it fitted to your shotgun by a gunsmith so it will extract properly and you will need sights of some sort to get any kind of accuracy. That is why they are popular in Drillings, they already have sights and you can adjust the insert to hit at the exact point of aim the sights are already set to. Fitting the insert is a fairly easy job, about 100 bucks for someone that is good. Those inserts however are hard to find in Canada. I bought the last couple from Germany. Pictures below are a copy of the instructions that come with them. I borrowed these from another site because the ones I had got sold with the last Drilling I sold.

I don't know of any other 22 RF inserts that are North American made. Lothar and a couple of other German companies make them too.

[trapperdodge]

Combination guns are popular in Europe where many hunters only own one gun.

[thumper]

I had a Savage 22/20 gauge combo, that was a wonderful grouse/rabbit gun. One of the great things about it, was that it was small enough to break down and carry inside a day-pack. When in places like K-Country where you often share the trailheads with hikers & families, it was nice to be in 'hunter-stealth mode', before reaching more remote hunting grounds.

Upon occasion, I also carried it disassembled in my pack while carrying my deer rifle. Oft-times when unsuccessful on deer, it resulted in bringing home at least a ruffie or two - as a consolation prize!

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by oldjeda

Okay now you’v got me thinking along another route. My kid has a double barrel 12 gauge that I could play with and try an insert or two in one of the barrels. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations as to where to start looking for such a thing?
Thanks again

I have heard that the long inserts shoot alright, but to me, it sounds like a lot of messing around considering what one of those combos goes for on Tradeex.