Do your vehicles have Keyless Fobs ❓

[Selkirk]

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BEWARE ... 'High-Tech' Auto Thefts are on the rise ❗

If you have Keyless Fobs, take notes 👉 https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.4471216

Selkirk

[CaberTosser]

Mine does not, but one thing I don't like is the removal of passenger side keyed locks, being that I like redundancy.

[sako1]

Old news. Garage door openers have had that problem for a decade or more. Key fobs have been hacked for a few years.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sako1

Old news. Garage door openers have had that problem for a decade or more. Key fobs have been hacked for a few years.

but relevant.

Nothing wrong with reminding people.

[Bigwoodsman]

This is how the cops figure they got my SUV last October. Likely standing outside of my home with a transmitter and a second perp at the SUV. SUV parked 30 meters from my house they transmitted the signal, unlocked and started my SUV. Cops figure it might take 15-20 seconds once they have the signal.

BW

[EZM]

Any new security technology is only good for as long as it take some criminal to figure out how to get around it.

[bat119]

I'm left wondering why the car manufacturers don't put an on/off switch on the fob? Pretty simple fix

My Mom left her spare fob in a jacket in the trunk for 3 months, my Dad's left the car running 3-4 times these fobs are not a good thing for the elderly.

[amosfella]

I disabled the keyless go in the car I use. The key is kinda interesting. It transmits one code for lock and unlock, and when you put the key in the ignition, it transmits a second code before the tumbler will turn. This is one of the insert a small plastic end into the ignition to turn it type of deals.

Now, if I could only figure out how to enable the feature where if you panic brake, the brake lights flash rapidly.

[Sundancefisher]

Can’t they make a fob with a signal that cycles?

[Nayr]

My wife’s escalade the fob just needs to be near the suv and the doors unlock and it will start and drive, my Harley is the same way except the Harley will flash lights and stop if you too far away from the fob. The escalade will not. My wife has started it and drove to Tim’s and back while forgetting the fob in the garage. Only thing is you can’t turn off the caddy if the fob isn’t close by. Stupid, I know.

[barbless]

Kill switch inside the vehicle. Sure it defeats the purpose of warming it up in the winter and auto air condition in the summer but it won't move.

[operator john]

Install an old fashion electric front wheel brake lock up like we used to use to warm up the back tires for street racing.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Nayr

My wife’s escalade the fob just needs to be near the suv and the doors unlock and it will start and drive, my Harley is the same way except the Harley will flash lights and stop if you too far away from the fob. The escalade will not. My wife has started it and drove to Tim’s and back while forgetting the fob in the garage. Only thing is you can’t turn off the caddy if the fob isn’t close by. Stupid, I know.

Actually it’s not that stupid. I’d rather it didn’t shut off then shut off 30 miles from home. It’s a good reminder.

However I’d just prefer a keyed ignition. The wife’s suburban has those fobs too.

[lyallpeder]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

This is how the cops figure they got my SUV last October. Likely standing outside of my home with a transmitter and a second perp at the SUV. SUV parked 30 meters from my house they transmitted the signal, unlocked and started my SUV. Cops figure it might take 15-20 seconds once they have the signal.

BW

Edmonton police actually put that much effort into an investigation?

After my break in I’m really surprised.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Can’t they make a fob with a signal that cycles?

It does. The attack uses an antenna rig right outside your door to capture and rebroadcast the signal from a second device next to the car. The only way to avoid it would be making sure the fob is far enough from your door or shielded enough that the antenna couldn’t capture the signal. You need something that will act like a faraday cage to block the fob’s broadcast, microwave should work.

I don’t know what the current state of the attack tech is but The last time I looked at it Toyota and Lexus were especially vulnerable for some reason. I found it interesting in the video when they said the three most stollen vehicles were Honda Accords, Ford trucks and Lexus SUVs. The first two are the among the most popular vehicles sold, the Lexus however I think is just easy to steal.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Mine does not, but one thing I don't like is the removal of passenger side keyed locks, being that I like redundancy.

Ditto that 👆 ❗

Selkirk

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by lyallpeder

Edmonton police actually put that much effort into an investigation?

After my break in I’m really surprised.

No effort beyond my police report, I just asked how do they get it without a fob, and was told that.

BW

[fordtruckin]

yeah my 2020 Dodge 2500 has these. If someone wants to steal it they have bigger problems because it's a law enforcement vehicle... The fob has to be in the vehicle and it will drive a little way's before shutting down from my understanding if the fob isn't in the vehicle.

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

yeah my 2020 Dodge 2500 has these. If someone wants to steal it they have bigger problems because it's a law enforcement vehicle... The fob has to be in the vehicle and it will drive a little way's before shutting down from my understanding if the fob isn't in the vehicle.

in a lot of them as long as you don’t shut them off theu continue until run out of petrol

[ssyd]

https://youtu.be/hqKafI7Amd8?t=367

This is a TED talk from 2012 where a hacking wizard goes on stage and says "I'm here to demonstrate how easily I can hack anything with a computer in it." I started it at his bit about key fobs but I highly recommend watching the whole thing (17 mins).

[Savage Bacon]

I used to always worry that I didn't actually have my fob on me and I was scared to shut the car off. I forget my Harley's fob all the time, most are pretty easy to override. I'm surprised more aren't stolen as I don't see too many people locking the handle bars.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by Cement Bench

in a lot of them as long as you don’t shut them off theu continue until run out of petrol

I'll have to do some experimenting. The truck dings and a message goes across the dash saying the fob has left the vehicle.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

It does. The attack uses an antenna rig right outside your door to capture and rebroadcast the signal from a second device next to the car. The only way to avoid it would be making sure the fob is far enough from your door or shielded enough that the antenna couldn’t capture the signal. You need something that will act like a faraday cage to block the fob’s broadcast, microwave should work.

I don’t know what the current state of the attack tech is but The last time I looked at it Toyota and Lexus were especially vulnerable for some reason. I found it interesting in the video when they said the three most stollen vehicles were Honda Accords, Ford trucks and Lexus SUVs. The first two are the among the most popular vehicles sold, the Lexus however I think is just easy to steal.

My thought was they could capture a signal but the next code sent would be different so they wouldn’t have access unless they can broadcast every code possible. How many code combinations are there?

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

My thought was they could capture a signal but the next code sent would be different so they wouldn’t have access unless they can broadcast every code possible. How many code combinations are there?

That’s not quite how it works, there’s actually a few scenarios.

In the video you see gear that extends the range of the fob. The device attached to the antenna immediately rebroadcasts so the code doesn’t change. There’s a bit of two way communication going on there in fact with the antenna device passing the encrypted data back and forth, it never “breaks” the code it’s merely a bridge. Remember that the fob is always listening for a challenge from the car, as soon as the fob is “in range“ and responds it unlocks. When you hit the start button it checks to see if the right fob is in range and allows you to start the car, etc.

In the case of a rolling code device like a door unlock button or a garage door opener the attack may be more direct. When you sync a remote with a device the remote is given some shared secret information, usually a 16 bit number, this is never transmitted again. The device also sends a counter or sequence number. When the remote wants to unlock it runs a cryptographic function using the next counter in sequence and the secret as inputs then sends the result and counter to the device. The device runs the same function using the transmitted counter and the secret then compares the result. If they match it unlocks.

There’s two ways to break this. If the cryptographic function is weak all you have to do is listen for a while to collect some samples and then run a brute force attack on those to discover the secret. However there is an easier way using a device called a Rolljam. The Rolljam intercepts your remote so the first button press does nothing, you press it again and the Rolljam will transmit the first unlock but store the second so it can use it later. You can build one of those pretty cheap.

https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hacker...opens-garages/

[Reeves1]

Originally Posted by operator john

Install an old fashion electric front wheel brake lock up like we used to use to warm up the back tires for street racing.

Line Lock . Roll Control if younger.... LOL

Line Lock in my cars....smoke em if ya got em !