If it is not racial discrimination, then I don't know what "racism" means.

[HeavyD111]

Affirmative action can lead to some bizarre hiring policiies.

In Sask women can work as officers in mens detention centers but men cant work as guards in a female facility. Yes I have been told “what man would want to work there anyway??” Not the point, this policy steps way over the line swings to the other side so hard it hits the wall.

Alberta might be different, but in SK if you have a “box to check” on the application you are way ahead of many others. Been this way for decades, just has become more obvious as our racial percentages change.

[saskbooknut]

Where you have a field of multiple qualified candidates, affirmative action has the possibility of making the workplace more reflective of the employee population.

But that doesn't feed into the poor, hard done by, white male narrative.

Having been in the position of hiring and promoting, I notice that many of the loudest complainers about hiring policies would need a serious attitude adjustment, in a whole lot of areas, before ever being considered for promotion.

Nobody that I know, in a position of responsibility, wants to promote unqualified candidates.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by saskbooknut

Where you have a field of multiple qualified candidates, affirmative action has the possibility of making the workplace more reflective of the employee population.

But that doesn't feed into the poor, hard done by, white male narrative.

Having been in the position of hiring and promoting, I notice that many of the loudest complainers about hiring policies would need a serious attitude adjustment, in a whole lot of areas, before ever being considered for promotion.

Nobody that I know, in a position of responsibility, wants to promote unqualified candidates.

I share your perspective 100% here. There is a ton of really good good substance to what you said in few sentences there.

I am the "guy" who often has to select the right manager in an organization and put him in a role where his attitude and management style influence his team and either make my life easier or my life worse as his boss. A bad manager causes good people to leave and go elsewhere and drives a wedge between Management and Labor (which is never helpful) to me when I have to go clean up the mess.

The same goes with him being experienced, and qualified enough to deliver on his/her objectives and, again, make my life better or worse.

Why would I, as that "guy", hire an unqualified candidate based on race alone? I would NEVER do that. EVER. I think these are empty arguments for the most part.

And the last thing that also struck a cord here - everyone has a "Bob" in the office who's a mean, bitter old jerk who has been in that role for 30 years, been passed up for promotion 12 times and feels he's entitled to the promotion - except that Bob's a jerk and nobody will work for him and he's difficult for his manager and co-workers to deal with as they walk on egg shells - he's awesome at his job - just a angry bear to deal with .... and he's the "white old guy" who's "hard done by" here complaining the loudest.

Like I said in previous posts, I am not a fan of any form of institutional discrimination, including affirmative action, but I accept and understand why it's needed. And sometimes these programs hurt as much as they help. But the motivations for the person making the final decisions are not well understood here. Bottom line is simple ...

Good leaders surround themselves with good managers and supervisors and teams and hire good people. It benefits the company, the workers and, ultimately, that leader, (as they help deliver his/her objectives).

[Rastus]

I am a long time business owner, since retired, and I would "NOT" hire someone to do a job, if they were not quailfied to do to the job. I do not care if that person was black, white, brown, or chinese or whatever, gay, I left out women, might as well fit everybody in. That person has do to a job, "PERIOD" to make my life easier. And I don't care if the person is any of the above. I grew up in a life of easier living when black was black and white was white and I didn't care. If you think that you are not going to hire a person because they are any of the above, YOU GOT THE PROBLEM, NOT THEM.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I will never understand why some feel the best way to combat racism is to give benefits to people for being born a certain race.

But hey common sense seems to have died long ago

yup that sounds like racism to me. wonder how long til Yellowstone goes off of course naming a park after a color sounds racism too but the cauldera wont mind when she lets go. we need a good human cleansing

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

remember the days when people actually had to earn a position in a company ?

That ended in the mid 80's......workforce became a Color number ratio and not the best man or woman got the job.....never bought into it and never will....because of bad decisions you hinder the work force...and then comes the discrimination/racism because of this.....kinda like a dog chasing its tail....view all as equal....opportunity for all but it's based on your skill sets, drive etc and not based on race,Color etc that's just crap.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

That ended in the mid 80's......workforce became a Color number ratio and not the best man or woman got the job.....never bought into it and never will....because of bad decisions you hinder the work force...and then comes the discrimination/racism because of this.....kinda like a dog chasing its tail....view all as equal....opportunity for all but it's based on your skill sets, drive etc and not based on race,Color etc that's just crap.

Reminds me union entitlement in many (most) environments.

Promotions are based on seniority not merit.

"Equally qualified, time served" is dangerously flawed.

Qualification is determined simply based on previous position held within the chronological progression, and not the performance in that position, how that individual deals with people, or stress, or what he/she may be capable of in the new role. Just that he was there first and occupied the next place in line.

It's equally crippling to many organizations.

The democrats supporting unions is so short sighted and ridiculous it destroys our proficiency, growth, assertion and diminishes all the good things we want in our teams and people.

This is also a form of institutional discrimination.