Students Suspended For Visiting Shooting Range

[elkhunter11]

This has gone beyond ridiculous.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/201...-after-school/

[JeanCretien]

Thanks for sending this man. The lefties are complete loony tunes. I don't mean south paws.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RavYak]

Old non news.

Search it up and you will see that the school dropped the issue and has changed the wording in their policy to avoid this in the future.

If anything I would say they went too far as they got rid of all the off school grounds criteria. If there was evidence that kids were using weapons(as worded in the policy) in unsafe situations then they should be able to act, now they won't be able to.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Old non news.

Search it up and you will see that the school dropped the issue and has changed the wording in their policy to avoid this in the future.

If anything I would say they went too far as they got rid of all the off school grounds criteria. If there was evidence that kids were using weapons(as worded in the policy) in unsafe situations then they should be able to act, now they won't be able to.

How is it non news, their rules should have been left as was, and a little discretion should have been used. It was a knee jerk reaction to a non event.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Old non news.

Search it up and you will see that the school dropped the issue and has changed the wording in their policy to avoid this in the future.

If anything I would say they went too far as they got rid of all the off school grounds criteria. If there was evidence that kids were using weapons(as worded in the policy) in unsafe situations then they should be able to act, now they won't be able to.

Because the school board needs to be law enforcement? Uh huh. They shouldn't have any say off school grounds. When did school boards become ruling elected government?

[EZM]

The students got suspended for something, completely legal, like going to a range, AFTER school hours, because they posted pictures on Snap-chat? Really?

Why can't stuff like this happen to my kids so I can sue the butts right off the school board and retire with a giant pile of money.?????

Absolutely ridiculous.

Since when does the school board govern student's activities after school?

What a completely overstretch of authority and control.

[Big Racks]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Because the school board needs to be law enforcement? Uh huh. They shouldn't have any say off school grounds. When did school boards become ruling elected government?

If there is reason to suspect danger right be imminent, or planned, why wouldn't the school board have the right to restrict a student's access to a target rich environment until law enforcement could investigate it fully? That wasn't the case here, but in other instances it could be. They'd have a lot of explaining to do if something came to their attention and they allowed access to the school until it was investigated, and another shooting occurred in the meantime. Like it or not, school boards are entrusted with the well being of our children. Do they have to be policed and monitored to ensure some wackadoodle leftist doesn't try and further his own personal agenda? Absolutely.
http://connecticut.news12.com/story/...side-of-school

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Big Racks

If there is reason to suspect danger right be imminent, or planned, why wouldn't the school board have the right to restrict a student's access to a target rich environment until law enforcement could investigate it fully? That wasn't the case here, but in other instances it could be. They'd have a lot of explaining to do if something came to their attention and they allowed access to the school until it was investigated, and another shooting occurred in the meantime. Like it or not, school boards are entrusted with the well being of our children. Do they have to be policed and monitored to ensure some wackadoodle leftist doesn't try and further his own personal agenda? Absolutely.
http://connecticut.news12.com/story/...side-of-school

This is exactly why I have a problem with it. Public safety is the realm of law enforcement. If a wakadoodle is identified and there is a bona fide threat every jurisdiction in North America has laws in place to prevent it.

Schools can't handle what happens at school these days let alone being worried about out of school activities. They also have no right to dictate any out of school restrictions on activity and if theybare concerned they have law enforcement and social service professionals to turn to. Nearly all major school boards have integrated partnerships with police and social services tonassist with any issues anyway.

The last thing anyone needs is the school board actively monitoring everyone's social media feeds looking for issues when they have issues walking through their front doors every day that are ignored.

[bessiedog]

Too funny....

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Too funny....

Funny like nazi Germany eh ???

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by rem338win

This is exactly why I have a problem with it. Public safety is the realm of law enforcement. If a wakadoodle is identified and there is a bona fide threat every jurisdiction in North America has laws in place to prevent it.

Schools can't handle what happens at school these days let alone being worried about out of school activities. They also have no right to dictate any out of school restrictions on activity and if theybare concerned they have law enforcement and social service professionals to turn to. Nearly all major school boards have integrated partnerships with police and social services tonassist with any issues anyway.

The last thing anyone needs is the school board actively monitoring everyone's social media feeds looking for issues when they have issues walking through their front doors every day that are ignored.

Read this and tell me school's shouldn't have the ability to suspend students when they are worried about the danger of other students...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonem...chool_shooting

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel described Cruz's online profiles and accounts as "very, very disturbing".[63] They contained pictures and posts of him with a variety of weapons, including long knives, a shotgun, a pistol, and a BB gun.

The calls included an anonymous tip on February 5, 2016, that Cruz had threatened to shoot up the school, and a tip on November 30, 2017, that he might be a "school shooter in the making" and that he collected knives and guns. On September 23, 2016, a peer counselor notified the school resource officer of his suicide attempt and intent to buy a gun; the school indicated it would do a "threat assessment".

In September 2016, three people—a sheriff's deputy who worked as a resource officer at Stoneman Douglas, and two of the school's counselors—stated that Cruz should be committed for mental evaluation.

The school knew he was dangerous. Heck the police knew he was dangerous, they just couldn't prove/do anything about it...

If I was a parent I know I sure as heck would want schools to have the power to protect my children from situations like that.

This situation on the other hand was ridiculous and that is why it was quickly taken care of.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by EZM

The students got suspended for something, completely legal, like going to a range, AFTER school hours, because they posted pictures on Snap-chat? Really?
Why can't stuff like this happen to my kids so I can sue the butts right off the school board and retire with a giant pile of money.?????
Absolutely ridiculous.
Since when does the school board govern student's activities after school?
What a completely overstretch of authority and control.

I’ve been away from the business for years, but back in the good old days, Alberta principals did have the authority to impose in school discipline for out of school activities. I suspect that authority remains in some form. Think of internet bullying, a fight after school...maybe on the way home...maybe hours later. Sounds like your dream of litigious richess may remain a possibility?
EDIT—- I checked the current legislation and yes, the principal can discipline for out of school bullying, threats, fights ...

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I’ve been away from the business for years, but back in the good old days, Alberta principals did have the authority to impose in school discipline for out of school activities. I suspect that authority remains in some form. Think of internet bullying, a fight after school...maybe on the way home...maybe hours later. Sounds like your dream of litigious richess may remain a possibility?
EDIT—- I checked the current legislation and yes, the principal can discipline for out of school bullying, threats, fights ...

Wouldn't you agree that what you describe of bullying and threats is different than two students at the shooting range after school?

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Wouldn't you agree that what you describe of bullying and threats is different than two students at the shooting range after school?

Certainly, my comments relate specifically to Alberta legislation...to affirm that principals do have some jurisdiction related to after school “conduct”. In Alberta, assuming there is no threatening going on, there would be no basis for school intervention. Just common sense! Unfortunately, there are sometimes lapses in common sense.

[Big Racks]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Wouldn't you agree that what you describe of bullying and threats is different than two students at the shooting range after school?

I don't think anyone has argued that fact. More so the fact that there is an inherent responsibility to keep students safe from known, or suspected, threats. This case was them going overboard, getting called on it, and back-pedalling. There has to be some common sense used to determine what constitutes a threat. 2 students at a gun range isn't a threat, that psycho from the Florida obviously was. The ball was dropped on that one so many frigging times, I sure hope at the very least some jobs were lost as a result of so many young lives being taken needlessly.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by guywiththemule

Funny like nazi Germany eh ???

You just made a wrong assumption.....

But whatever.

It’ll never happen where I’m at.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Read this and tell me school's shouldn't have the ability to suspend students when they are worried about the danger of other students...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonem...chool_shooting







The school knew he was dangerous. Heck the police knew he was dangerous, they just couldn't prove/do anything about it...

If I was a parent I know I sure as heck would want schools to have the power to protect my children from situations like that.

This situation on the other hand was ridiculous and that is why it was quickly taken care of.

Oh you. I suspect you haven't read them and then actually sat down and thought about how badly the ball was dropped by not only the schools but everyone else who had good old fashioned powers and authorities to intervene.

Personally, I'm tired of people thinking that stacking rules on redundant rules is resolution to people making mistakes. I think that people that believe this type of action will keep them safe could easily have an accident if left unsupervised with small glass beads.

I'll play this scenario out one step further to help those lacking imagination. Kid is seen in SM crossing pistols on the bathroom mirror with a hoodie on writing really bad rap (oh the grammar!) That's focused on his anger and lack of friends. Builds up and says he's going to get back at those responsible for such a miserable life. Principle whips the cape out and calls kids parent and says "Jimmy shall not pass! Suspended!"

Whew! Crisis averted!

Except Jimmy care no more so he packed up his small armoury, heads to the school and goes "wakadoodle".

Good thing he was suspended when that happened.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Because the school board needs to be law enforcement? Uh huh. They shouldn't have any say off school grounds. When did school boards become ruling elected government?

Yup, once it is off the school grounds or not an event off school,grounds as in a field trip they have no say.....period.
Next thing you know Walmart will be dictating our lives outside thier store....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Oh you. I suspect you haven't read them and then actually sat down and thought about how badly the ball was dropped by not only the schools but everyone else who had good old fashioned powers and authorities to intervene.

Personally, I'm tired of people thinking that stacking rules on redundant rules is resolution to people making mistakes. I think that people that believe this type of action will keep them safe could easily have an accident if left unsupervised with small glass beads.

I'll play this scenario out one step further to help those lacking imagination. Kid is seen in SM crossing pistols on the bathroom mirror with a hoodie on writing really bad rap (oh the grammar!) That's focused on his anger and lack of friends. Builds up and says he's going to get back at those responsible for such a miserable life. Principle whips the cape out and calls kids parent and says "Jimmy shall not pass! Suspended!"

Whew! Crisis averted!

Except Jimmy care no more so he packed up his small armoury, heads to the school and goes "wakadoodle".

Good thing he was suspended when that happened.

Exactly, thinking that suspending a student will prevent him from walking into a school and going on a shooting rampage is as logical as thinking that prohibiting a criminal from possessing firearms is going to keep him from possessing firearms.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Oh you. I suspect you haven't read them and then actually sat down and thought about how badly the ball was dropped by not only the schools but everyone else who had good old fashioned powers and authorities to intervene.

Personally, I'm tired of people thinking that stacking rules on redundant rules is resolution to people making mistakes. I think that people that believe this type of action will keep them safe could easily have an accident if left unsupervised with small glass beads.

I'll play this scenario out one step further to help those lacking imagination. Kid is seen in SM crossing pistols on the bathroom mirror with a hoodie on writing really bad rap (oh the grammar!) That's focused on his anger and lack of friends. Builds up and says he's going to get back at those responsible for such a miserable life. Principle whips the cape out and calls kids parent and says "Jimmy shall not pass! Suspended!"

Whew! Crisis averted!

Except Jimmy care no more so he packed up his small armoury, heads to the school and goes "wakadoodle".

Good thing he was suspended when that happened.

Lol, thank you for pointing that out. I was wondering how an academic suspension was supposed to thwart a would be mass murderer. Maybe if there were a few more policies and rules in place the gravity of such a bad decision would really sink in

[Rockman]

I see common sense kind of in the middle here.

A school can be interested in student's or the school's well-being including in relation to after-hours activities, but suspending them isn't a solution in a case like this. If they feel something warrants attention or could be a danger to the school, that should be brought up to the parents first, then the law and CPS if the perceived danger persists and the parents seem unwilling or incapable of addressing it.

Unless I read a lot more details, I would be inclined to say the school simply overreacted out of a desire to do good, coupled with a tremendous amount of ignorance. Work it out and move on. Also... come to a happy medium that makes sense somewhere in the middle.

I can see an immediate suspension making sense if they see a threat of violence or in some way believe that kid is an active shooter gearing up or literally coming over and should be barred from entering. But that's different. The school simply misjudged (maybe deliberately, maybe out of ignorance) a perfectly reasonable activity.

[Heron]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I’ve been away from the business for years, but back in the good old days, Alberta principals did have the authority to impose in school discipline for out of school activities. I suspect that authority remains in some form. Think of internet bullying, a fight after school...maybe on the way home...maybe hours later. Sounds like your dream of litigious richess may remain a possibility?
EDIT—- I checked the current legislation and yes, the principal can discipline for out of school bullying, threats, fights ...

I am a current school principal and regularily discipline students for matters off school grounds mostly for cyber activities. For the record I also take them to a gun range on a three day field trip!

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Heron

I am a current school principal and regularily discipline students for matters off school grounds mostly for cyber activities. For the record I also take them to a gun range on a three day field trip!

Good on you regarding both endevours. In the past SPFGA had two groups of students participating in field trips to the Range ... I think the were both with the separate school system and part of an Outdoor Ed program. Lots of teachers are “gunnies”.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Rockman

I see common sense kind of in the middle here.

A school can be interested in student's or the school's well-being including in relation to after-hours activities, but suspending them isn't a solution in a case like this. If they feel something warrants attention or could be a danger to the school, that should be brought up to the parents first, then the law and CPS if the perceived danger persists and the parents seem unwilling or incapable of addressing it.

Unless I read a lot more details, I would be inclined to say the school simply overreacted out of a desire to do good, coupled with a tremendous amount of ignorance. Work it out and move on. Also... come to a happy medium that makes sense somewhere in the middle.

I can see an immediate suspension making sense if they see a threat of violence or in some way believe that kid is an active shooter gearing up or literally coming over and should be barred from entering. But that's different. The school simply misjudged (maybe deliberately, maybe out of ignorance) a perfectly reasonable activity.

The way I see it somebody stupid wanted a hero cookie, and imposed the full weight of the policy in the hopes they would get a pat on the back and bring some imaginary significance to their tiny little life.

Which is more or less my beef with the way blanket policies are dolled out on the general populace today... Trying to idiot proof the world, the world will never be idiot proof, the policies just give a certain type of person a lot more room to throw their weight around. Meanwhile the rest of us attempt to keep down the bile as we abide by policies and rules that were presumably developed to protect the mentally deficient, and wonder why the hell we continue to prop up the BS system that western civilization has somehow become.

But hey, if we can even manage to save one life its all worthwhile...

[EZM]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I’ve been away from the business for years, but back in the good old days, Alberta principals did have the authority to impose in school discipline for out of school activities. I suspect that authority remains in some form. Think of internet bullying, a fight after school...maybe on the way home...maybe hours later. Sounds like your dream of litigious richess may remain a possibility?
EDIT—- I checked the current legislation and yes, the principal can discipline for out of school bullying, threats, fights ...

The comment about law suits was a joke ... either way ..

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a school administrator addressing off campus bullying, harassment, etc (which are illegal) activities and totally another to apply the same controls regarding perfectly legal activity like going to a range.

Your comparison is irrelevant.

I support administrators who address illegal issues / activities they become aware of them. As a matter of fact, I applaud an administrator who takes an active position in the students lives and continues to make these kids into good citizens and responsible adults.

This is Clearly a case of an "anti guns" administrator attempting to overstep their authority.

[260 Rem]

EZM - my response to your joke was tongue-in-cheek. That being said, during my 30 years as principal I had several threats to “sue my butt off”. Hollow threats to which my response was “go for it”. I recall one of the most creative when a local Mountie called to tell me that a parent wanted me arrested for kidnapping after I held their kid for a detention.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

EZM - my response to your joke was tongue-in-cheek. That being said, during my 30 years as principal I had several threats to “sue my butt off”. Hollow threats to which my response was “go for it”. I recall one of the most creative when a local Mountie called to tell me that a parent wanted me arrested for kidnapping after I held their kid for a detention.

Sorry - totally missed that one.

[HalfBreed]

I don't think kids need time at the range to go shoot up their classmates, if that is inferred (induction).

[BuckCuller]

That’s just the way the western world is going these days. I’m glad my kids will soon be out of school as there is plenty of SJW agenda be taught in our school systems presently. I can’t imagine what it will be like in another twenty years.
BTW JMO.

[bobtodrick]

Luckily common sense seems more prevalent in Canada.
This week my 14 year old's jr high class (EPSB) had a night where the students in the grade 9 AP (advanced placement) class displayed the projects they had been working on for the last month.
Most were the usual...proof of evolution, how an automobile engine works...etc.
But one child had a display showing how body armor worked and the difference in stopping power between soft armor and hard (plates) armor.
I was actually very pleasantly surprised that he was allowed to do this in our current political atmosphere. Lots of parents were stopping by and asking questions and many seemed quite interested.
Hoping they don't get any flack from any of the parents...that of course is yet to be seen.