16 percent rig utilization Jan 4

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by reddeerguy2015

As "crude" as this post may seem (no pun intended...) this guy is right, or at least has some damn good points.

Do you guys that own 5 or 6 hundred thousand dollar houses in the hamptons believe they are *actually* worth that??? I mean - really, 8 or 9 years ago they were half that. What actually makes you think they are worth TWICE as much, 8 years later??

Are they build from materials that are twice as good?? Will your house last longer?? Maybe the labour that built your house is better?? Quite the opposite really - housing is getting to be the same way the rest of society is, cheap. Throw away. Cheap materials, appliances that last 7 years - plastic houses, all to save a buck and the consumers just eat it right up.

Hey, that is me you are talking about. Just for the record the market could drop 50% and I wouldn't be upside down on my mortgage and I can go over 5 years before I need to make another mortgage payment. Not too worried here. Anyways, I have a hard time understanding your statement. You say that my 6k house is 50% overvalued. (I am not arguing that) OK, so if we went back to 2005ish, it would've cost 3k, is that acceptable? Is this what you think property in Alberta is worth? Why not jump back to 1995 it would've been worth say 1.8k, is that what its worth? How about we go to 1975, it would've been worth probably 40g; is that what my house is worth to you? Its built with the same spruce studs that were used in 1975. What is the true value of my home? I would really like to know. Guys that built in the 80's in a big bubble have still made good money investing in their overpriced "mansions".

I grew up in an older house (1957), 5 people, 4 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Both my parents worked (not the 'patch), and we never lived high on the hog. No new vehicles, etc. Are (were) they compelled to buy a mansion that costs 6 to 8 hundred k, just to impress neighbours or friends ?? Hell no.

Funny, that house you grew up in probably would sell for 4.5k in Edmonton today. (Well maybe not TODAY, but you get what I'm saying.) Never bought this house to impress anyone. I bought it because I don't have to stare at rows and rows of houses as I long to live away from the city. I also bought it so my children could walk 30 steps to school. I also bought this place because it kinda soothes my farmboy upbringing, knowing that I measure my lot by the fact it is over a quarter acre. (pathetic amount of land really but it does help me when the word acre leaves my lips. ) No new vehicle here in the 6 years since we built. One new quad but that's about it.

That's the problem with todays society - every 23 year old ruffneck or derrickhand thinks he's entitled to a 500k house, a 70k pickup truck, a sled, bike, quad, boat, Christ the list goes on.

That is not the problem. The problem is the humble home that you gre up in costs 4.5k, so they end up with 4k mortgages. Not because they are flashing cash and being stupid.

Then what happens?? The boom ends and literally, a lot of patch workers have ****ed their money away.

Many people that aren't in the O&G industry are going to hurt. Do you think that possibly the educated individual that runs a boutique in downtown Calgary won't feel the pinch? Could that same individual not also be 2 paycheques from bankruptcy? Do you think all the hard working chefs in Edmonton aren't going to feel the pinch? Everyone in Alberta will feel this. Even if your business doesn't, your taxation will feel the effects.

Alberta needed a reset. Hell even Canada or North America needs it. Prices are ridiculous on almost every damn thing we buy, from housing, to fuel, food, services - you name it.

You think prices are ridiculous, just wait. This $.70 dollar is really gonna wake people up very soon. I hope your business doesn't require equipment or supplies that trade on the US dollar.

One thing I would like to come back to a reasonable price is housing. It is one of those things that just drives me crazy - property is not worth what it costs in Alberta.

What is property worth then? What's it worth in Toronto?

So, if your truly sick of the boom/bust cycle, constantly being in fear of your job, living out of a suitcase, working in the weather, etc etc etc - change your career. Now is the perfect time.

Negative. Now is the time to settle down for awhile, and enjoy the toys I have acquired, and rest up for the next boom. Every time it booms, many, many Albertans secure a better future for themselves.

Go to school, switch industries or start a small business and work for yourself.

I worked the 'patch for 8 years, did exactly that and I've never looked back. Its not "impossible". You guys work damn hard in the oil sector, hardest workers out there - apply that work ethic towards a business plan and you will do just fine.

Good luck to everyone, until the next boom. I'm gonna go do some ice-fishing.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Payments are a fact of life for most people these days. Financing things that appreciate is what has made a lot of people rich. There isn't anyone on a hunting forum who can indentify someone else's risk tolerance and financing ability. Without being full of themselves.

Payments make sense for things that appreciate.

One needs to recognize that real estate does not always appreciate, but it also can depreciate and often drastically. That being said, long term for many people it makes sense to own rather than rent. At least here in North America. In Germany, it makes more sense to rent rather than own. It is just a quirk of how their mortgage system works, and the fact that there has not been the appreciation in real estate over the last 40 years that we have had.

As far as other items? Cars, trailers, trucks, quads, furniture, and all those other toys that one just must have when times are great that are put on payment, that is just insanity. Want a new vehicle? Wait till you've saved for it. I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1973 and I never will. It just doesn't make economic sense.

But, if you're paying for it in cash, go for it. If you're making payments over 84 months, you're deluding yourself if you think that you're making smart financial decisions. If you're single, you're only hurting yourself when a crash comes. If you're married with children, you're hurting a family.

[Deer Hunter]

Just because you don't have the tools to lever other people's money into prosperity, doesn't mean that others don't.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by avb3

Payments make sense for things that appreciate.

One needs to recognize that real estate does not always appreciate, but it also can depreciate and often drastically. That being said, long term for many people it makes sense to own rather than rent. At least here in North America. In Germany, it makes more sense to rent rather than own. It is just a quirk of how their mortgage system works, and the fact that there has not been the appreciation in real estate over the last 40 years that we have had.

As far as other items? Cars, trailers, trucks, quads, furniture, and all those other toys that one just must have when times are great that are put on payment, that is just insanity. Want a new vehicle? Wait till you've saved for it. I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1973 and I never will. It just doesn't make economic sense.

But, if you're paying for it in cash, go for it. If you're making payments over 84 months, you're deluding yourself if you think that you're making smart financial decisions. If you're single, you're only hurting yourself when a crash comes. If you're married with children, you're hurting a family.

wow! one of the tallest horses I've ever seen.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by avb3

Payments make sense for things that appreciate.

One needs to recognize that real estate does not always appreciate, but it also can depreciate and often drastically. That being said, long term for many people it makes sense to own rather than rent. At least here in North America. In Germany, it makes more sense to rent rather than own. It is just a quirk of how their mortgage system works, and the fact that there has not been the appreciation in real estate over the last 40 years that we have had.

As far as other items? Cars, trailers, trucks, quads, furniture, and all those other toys that one just must have when times are great that are put on payment, that is just insanity. Want a new vehicle? Wait till you've saved for it. I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1973 and I never will. It just doesn't make economic sense.

But, if you're paying for it in cash, go for it. If you're making payments over 84 months, you're deluding yourself if you think that you're making smart financial decisions. If you're single, you're only hurting yourself when a crash comes. If you're married with children, you're hurting a family.

Can you please explain to me why I would pay cash for something that costs me 2% in interest when the money I would use to pay for it is earning me 8-12%? If for some reason I needed to pay off a debt it is merely a few mouse clicks away. The last new vehicle the wife bought we had about 75% of the price in cash to put down. For a $100 document fee we bought the car with 0% interest over 72 months. I never paid off a nickel early. The money we were going to put down earned me a LOT more than the $100 document fee for the 0% loan. Why would I hand that money over and not let it work for ME for 72 months?

We currently live in a world where interest rates make no sense to pay cash if you can leverage it to your benefit. Your statements make sense when a car loan was 10.5% but not today. You are throwing away good money in today's day and age by paying cash.

Now, I am not advising you to buy every toy in the world with credit. Once you have the money for the toy however, if you can keep that money working for you, and have it ready to pay off debts should the need arise, finance the sucker.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Just because you don't have the tools to lever other people's money into prosperity, doesn't mean that others don't.

Don't worry about me. I'm going sailing with my used boat tomorrow, then for a swim in the pool at my used condo in the evening. I don't do payments, remember? Flying back for a birthday in February, then back down until May. I'll drive back in my used vehicle then. Will have to buckle down to reno my used small house. I might put up my used 30 ft motorhome for sale once those are done. Probably a terrible market, but I can be flexible on it when ready.

Did I mention I don't like payments?

You make choices how you organize your life. Not much I would change with mine.

[Mangosteen]

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article....aign=feature_2

No hope for normal old style Canadian metal going south like in 1982. The Baker Huges rig count is dropping hard as well.

Unless there is a technical operating edge, the normal equipment will just have to stay in the Canadian yards or rack sites.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by Badlildoggy

I think that maybe I agree with a few underlying things that you are maybe trying to say here, however you are clearly one of the bitter "have-nots" or have been deprived in some way by the "boom" and success of others.

I would like to start by saying that I am a proud Oilman of many years, one of those "uneducated", "greedy", "rig pigs" that has spent his adult career pursuit of perfection in one of the most technical and demanding industries that there has ever been. In what other industry are you expected to be modestly knowledgeable in engine mechanics, electrical repair, Hydraulics systems repair, chemistry, pneumatic system function and repair, computer skills, well control and above average math skills and the list goes on.....Now mix in some brutally hard labor and perform those other skills in remote locations day after day, for obscene periods of time, during inclement weather with minimal rest. Top it all off with being away from your family for unknown periods of time and no semblance of a work schedule.

You are probably one of the 75% of people that I have seen fail miserably at the "easy money" us "Rig Pigs" make. Or one of those bitter people that lost a job in the oil patch that shouldn't have been created in the first place.

The fact that you would discard an Oilman's resume shows that you are ignorant. The most intelligent, diverse and driven people I have ever met are also Oilmen. For you to say that we are not worth what we were getting paid also says you are ignorant, having not been in the industry yourself. Like I said earlier, if it was easy then why have I personally seen 3-4 of every 5 that have tried this business. There is no formal education certificate for the education we receive out there but I assure you, it is ample and you would be impressed. I would personally hire an Oilman over any other tradesman if presented a choice because of those qualities, and we don't hide behind a Union.

I agree with you that the pricing of goods, services and real estate has gotten too high. I also know that there are ignorant Oilmen just like there are ignorant people in general. I am sorry that you have had difficulties in the past with getting good help. The fact is those past issues are not our fault. The truth is, nobody asked for this boom and certainly nobody asked for the bust. Also, for people to not have taken advantage of those high paying employment and training opportunities would have been ridiculous. We have produced the finest skilled tradesmen in the world (Diploma or not) from Alberta and that is something to be proud of.

Hats off to you and thank you for this post!

Sick of the attitude that all patch workers are all over paid, uneducated "rig pigs". My husband has been in the industry for 25 years, that was his career choice and just because it doesn't come with a university degree doesn't make it any less of a career nor does it make him uneducated. It makes him someone who is a part of a specialized industry yet we have Canadians sneering down their noses at patch workers like they're a bunch of no good buffoons. All people look at are the young guys who are new to the patch, excited about their wages, proud of being able to buy themselves nice things. That mentality wears off after years of hard work.

There are thousands of low key patch workers who have spent their entire careers in the industry that are now without work and having not only a hard time paying their bills but also having a hard time finding other work. If someone has spent countless of years in the industry, they're obviously hard working, dedicated workers but they're not deserving of a different opportunity because of crap attitudes towards patch workers? Some of the hardest working bunch of people come from the patch, they had to be hard working, reliable and dependable in order to be in that industry. With attitudes of "If I see oil on their resume it goes in the bin", I see why so many are having a hard time finding work. Diversify they say but unwilling to give guys the opportunity to diversify their own resumes.

What a bunch of crap. Absolutely it's a case of kicking good, hard working people while they're down.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by avb3

Apparently you didn't read all my comments. Get back to me when you do.

I read through your posts and they all say the same thing, that O&G workers don't have a real trade or a profession. I also see a whole lot of gloating in your posts as well all the while claiming "empathy". Sadly, your attitude is shared by so many, I guess it makes people like you feel good about yourselves to announce your ignorance to the world. You're certainly entitled to your feelings but the fact that you'd get on public forums and openly belittle a group of hard working people for choosing to go into O&G as a career really demonstrates what type of person you are. Good on you and the rest of Canadians who share your same opinions.

It's no wonder Canada is such a divided country...

[reddeerguy2015]

Pour me... Pour me... Pour me... Pour me another glass of whiskey!

Cheer up my friends, its only the oilpatch. We will be back to booming again in no time!

[korie83]

Sounds like this is a forum for bad economists and financial analysts instead of outdoorsmen.

I for one can't wait for the O&G industry to recover so all the workers can start earning and spending again. It is what's good for an economy and helps everyone... well except those that can't stand the sight of jacked up, coal Rollin, 1-ton dodge rig rockets, but that's a another argument altogether. ��

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I read through your posts and they all say the same thing, that O&G workers don't have a real trade or a profession. I also see a whole lot of gloating in your posts as well all the while claiming "empathy". Sadly, your attitude is shared by so many, I guess it makes people like you feel good about yourselves to announce your ignorance to the world. You're certainly entitled to your feelings but the fact that you'd get on public forums and openly belittle a group of hard working people for choosing to go into O&G as a career really demonstrates what type of person you are. Good on you and the rest of Canadians who share your same opinions.

It's no wonder Canada is such a divided country...

Let's think in terms of those that went and got a trade, many who are also affected by this bust.

Plumber - portable
Electrician - portable
Mechanic - portable
Carpenter - portable
Instrument tech - portable

I mention instrument tech for a specific reason. I happened to be talking to my son last night about how things are going generally from his perspective. He has a trade that is not oil patch related, and is secure in his private company job.

He told me that one of the company's divisions were actually hiring people. I expressed some surprise at that, as although the company is very diversified, it also has significant oil patch contracts. The people that they were hiring were all instrument techs. As the trade that he is in and the focus of his company is not directly involved with anything I would have assumed an instrument technician would know about, what he said was that first of all they are in a trade that required precision and discipline, and secondarily much of what that trade had learned and practiced is easily adaptable to his industry.

His only concern was if the new hires would go back to the O&G industry because of the higher wages. On the other hand, it is quite likely that they would look at the stability aspect and see that the long-term employees, such as my son in that company, are still able to provide for their families.

My son happens to have a wife and two children, no debt other than his mortgage, and his wife doesn't work and is a stay at home mom. Her profession demands a salary higher than what he makes, but they chose that their kids are their priority. His used F-350 4x4 for his used trailer were both paid in cash. Did I ever mention I don't like payments? The apple didn't fall far from the tree... neither do they.

So my point is, that those that got a trade or have a profession can transition into other areas and continue to provide for themselves and their families. Those whose entire experience is only patchwork, with no trade, will be the last ones to be looked at for any positions that might be open.

That's the reality. It is the choices people made.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by avb3

Let's think in terms of those that went and got a trade, many who are also affected by this bust.

Plumber - portable
Electrician - portable
Mechanic - portable
Carpenter - portable
Instrument tech - portable

I mention instrument tech for a specific reason. I happened to be talking to my son last night about how things are going generally from his perspective. He has a trade that is not oil patch related, and is secure in his private company job.

He told me that one of the company's divisions were actually hiring people. I expressed some surprise at that, as although the company is very diversified, it also has significant oil patch contracts. The people that they were hiring were all instrument techs. As the trade that he is in and the focus of his company is not directly involved with anything I would have assumed an instrument technician would know about, what he said was that first of all they are in a trade that required precision and discipline, and secondarily much of what that trade had learned and practiced is easily adaptable to his industry.

His only concern was if the new hires would go back to the O&G industry because of the higher wages. On the other hand, it is quite likely that they would look at the stability aspect and see that the long-term employees, such as my son in that company, are still able to provide for their families.

My son happens to have a wife and two children, no debt other than his mortgage, and his wife doesn't work and is a stay at home mom. Her profession demands a salary higher than what he makes, but they chose that their kids are their priority. His used F-350 4x4 for his used trailer were both paid in cash. Did I ever mention I don't like payments? The apple didn't fall far from the tree... neither do they.

So my point is, that those that got a trade or have a profession can transition into other areas and continue to provide for themselves and their families. Those whose entire experience is only patchwork, with no trade, will be the last ones to be looked at for any positions that might be open.

That's the reality. It is the choices people made.

Wasn't one of your sons hoping to find a geologist job in the patch not too long ago?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Wasn't one of your sons hoping to find a geologist job in the patch not too long ago?

Nope. Only geologist I know is an ex- girl friend, and her specialty was mining. I only have one son.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by avb3

Nope. Only geologist I know is an ex- girl friend, and her specialty was mining. I only have one son.

That's what happens when you get old. I got 6 pairs of reading glasses all over the house and I'm thinking I need another 6 pairs. Must have plaque on my brain.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by avb3

Let's think in terms of those that went and got a trade, many who are also affected by this bust.

Plumber - portable
Electrician - portable
Mechanic - portable
Carpenter - portable
Instrument tech - portable

I mention instrument tech for a specific reason. I happened to be talking to my son last night about how things are going generally from his perspective. He has a trade that is not oil patch related, and is secure in his private company job.

He told me that one of the company's divisions were actually hiring people. I expressed some surprise at that, as although the company is very diversified, it also has significant oil patch contracts. The people that they were hiring were all instrument techs. As the trade that he is in and the focus of his company is not directly involved with anything I would have assumed an instrument technician would know about, what he said was that first of all they are in a trade that required precision and discipline, and secondarily much of what that trade had learned and practiced is easily adaptable to his industry.

His only concern was if the new hires would go back to the O&G industry because of the higher wages. On the other hand, it is quite likely that they would look at the stability aspect and see that the long-term employees, such as my son in that company, are still able to provide for their families.

My son happens to have a wife and two children, no debt other than his mortgage, and his wife doesn't work and is a stay at home mom. Her profession demands a salary higher than what he makes, but they chose that their kids are their priority. His used F-350 4x4 for his used trailer were both paid in cash. Did I ever mention I don't like payments? The apple didn't fall far from the tree... neither do they.

So my point is, that those that got a trade or have a profession can transition into other areas and continue to provide for themselves and their families. Those whose entire experience is only patchwork, with no trade, will be the last ones to be looked at for any positions that might be open.

That's the reality. It is the choices people made.

Of course it's about the choices people have made. Those choices are undeserving of the negative attitudes from people like you and those who will toss a resume in the bin for no other reason than the fact that it says O&G. Those who chose O&G as a career path are trades people and it's as valid a trade as the ones you've listed. It would seem that it could be a portable trade if it weren't for a negative attitude and the need to stereo type a whole group of people based on the small percentage of oakly wearing, jacked up driving "rig pigs".

My point was that your unjust negative attitude towards a group of good, hardworking people says more about you than those "uneducated rig pigs without a real career". I've often agreed with many of your posts in the past but your need to get on here and continually kick people while they're down is unnecessary and disappointing. Keep trying to portray yourself as better than the rest because your choices were different though if it makes you feel better at the end of the day.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by rugatika

That's what happens when you get old. I got 6 pairs of reading glasses all over the house and I'm thinking I need another 6 pairs. Must have plaque on my brain.

Lol.. I can relate to your condition.

[Skytop B]

I would not trade this no brain job for anything Still busy and will just go back to the sandbox if I run out of work here. Pretty chilly out here today, go ahead and turn your furnace up a couple notches, your welcome



Where else can you work 2-3 weeks a month, take a 2-3 month holiday in the spring and still make a pretty good living. Not to mention free world travel for the experienced people with "no skills or real trade"

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Of course it's about the choices people have made. Those choices are undeserving of the negative attitudes from people like you and those who will toss a resume in the bin for no other reason than the fact that it says O&G. Those who chose O&G as a career path are trades people and it's as valid a trade as the ones you've listed. It would seem that it could be a portable trade if it weren't for a negative attitude and the need to stereo type a whole group of people based on the small percentage of oakly wearing, jacked up driving "rig pigs".

My point was that your unjust negative attitude towards a group of good, hardworking people says more about you than those "uneducated rig pigs without a real career". I've often agreed with many of your posts in the past but your need to get on here and continually kick people while they're down is unnecessary and disappointing. Keep trying to portray yourself as better than the rest because your choices were different though if it makes you feel better at the end of the day.

I don't ever think I've suggest I'm better than anyone, nor have I suggested because one has O&G on their resume, it goes in file 13.

What I will repeat, is that there are many who have no trade or profession who went for the big bucks, and thought the party would never end. Many those same people spend like no tomorrow financing everything to the hilt and thinking they were making wise decisions.

As I outlined in the story of the instrument technicians who are able to transition their trade and skills to another industry, those that do have trades and/or professions will be the first ones to get back on their feet.

As it should be. They are the ones who undertook to further their education beyond high school.

[chasingtail]

A lot of people think oil field workers make a lot more money than they really do. Not everyone is the CEO making millions in downtown Calgary. Sure some guys in the field may be making 250K/year but it's not the norm. The best year average pay was 130K and that takes a lot of overtime, leaving with about 85K after taxes. 85K with a wife and a couple kids doesn't leave you with a lot of room to save.
Even if you saved 20%, (Canada's average savings rate is 5.4%) 6 months out of work pretty much wipes out all your savings. This whole argument they pizzed away there money isn't always true.
If all of the sudden government workers were subject to the free market and paid what they were actually worth they would be broke in 6 months.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

A lot of people think oil field workers make a lot more money than they really do. Not everyone is the CEO making millions in downtown Calgary. Sure some guys in the field may be making 250K/year but it's not the norm. The best year average pay was 130K and that takes a lot of overtime, leaving with about 85K after taxes. 85K with a wife and a couple kids doesn't leave you with a lot of room to save.
Even if you saved 20%, (Canada's average savings rate is 5.4%) 6 months out of work pretty much wipes out all your savings. This whole argument they pizzed away there money isn't always true.
If all of the sudden government workers were subject to the free market and paid what they were actually worth they would be broke in 6 months.

$85k net and one can't save?

Assuming $2500 mortgage/taxes, $800 food, $500 utilities, leaves $40k for everything else. And I'm being generously high with those payments.

What could possibly absorb another $3300/ month?

Payments for vehicles and toys maybe? People need to get real and understand that most make far less and are able to do just fine.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by avb3

$85k net and one can't save?

Assuming $2500 mortgage/taxes, $800 food, $500 utilities, leaves $40k for everything else. And I'm being generously high with those payments.

What could possibly absorb another $3300/ month?

Payments for vehicles and toys maybe? People need to get real and understand that most make far less and are able to do just fine.

With a gross income of $ 135 K, the combined taxes will come just shy of 42K for both federal and provincial. So net is actually more like 93 K.

I often wonder as well what eats up the finances of others.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by avb3

Don't worry about me. I'm going sailing with my used boat tomorrow, then for a swim in the pool at my used condo in the evening. I don't do payments, remember? Flying back for a birthday in February, then back down until May. I'll drive back in my used vehicle then. Will have to buckle down to reno my used small house. I might put up my used 30 ft motorhome for sale once those are done. Probably a terrible market, but I can be flexible on it when ready.

Did I mention I don't like payments?

You make choices how you organize your life. Not much I would change with mine.

That is great that you always buy used and don't enjoy making payments, I subscribe to the same philosophy, as I haven't had the disposable income to buy new every time and tend to focus on paying down debt and investing for the future. That being said, if others didn't finance/buy new homes, vehicles, sailboats, toys etc., we would have a hard time trying to buy any of these items on the used market no?. Sure I would like to own some of the homes, vehicles and toys that some of my friends have, but they all made a lot of sacrifices and worked like dogs to attain them. Nothing in life is free, I can not begrudge anyone who works hard towards their goals, even if the goals differ from mine. Some people will truly suffer in the next few years due to their financial decisions, but I can't bring myself to judge them because of it, and tell them that they should have done things differently. I am not judging you either, just expressing my opinion.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by avb3

$85k net and one can't save?

Assuming $2500 mortgage/taxes, $800 food, $500 utilities, leaves $40k for everything else. And I'm being generously high with those payments.

What could possibly absorb another $3300/ month?

Payments for vehicles and toys maybe? People need to get real and understand that most make far less and are able to do just fine.

Maybe vehicles, gas, upkeep, kids clothes, kids sporting and school events, home maintenance, dental bills, etc., etc. any extra each month with a young family can get eaten up pretty quick...but continue to make invalid points to try and solidify your expert thoughts....

[The Elkster]

Saving has to be a priority in order to have a chance. If you just take the attitude I'll save whatever is left over when the day of random spending is done there will rarely be anything left over. % of net income goes to the bank right off the top no if ands or buts about it. Then you find a way to make due on the rest. Try to live on the same money even if you get a raise and increase your savings % without altering lifestyle.

That is the reason some can save on 50k/yr and some can't save on 150k.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Saving has to be a priority in order to have a chance. If you just take the attitude I'll save whatever is left over when the day of random spending is done there will rarely be anything left over. % of net income goes to the bank right off the top no if ands or buts about it. Then you find a way to make due on the rest. Try to live on the same money even if you get a raise and increase your savings % without altering lifestyle.

That is the reason some can save on 50k/yr and some can't save on 150k.

Exactly.

I recall a bank manager acquaintance of mine who said a few years ago that I would be surprised how many people making well into the six figure income range, have a debt load in excess of that, and very little net assets to show for it.

He also said there would be a ton of people in a world of hurt if the economy never slowed down.

I guess that time is now.

[chasingtail]

Originally Posted by avb3

$85k net and one can't save?

Assuming $2500 mortgage/taxes, $800 food, $500 utilities, leaves $40k for everything else. And I'm being generously high with those payments.

What could possibly absorb another $3300/ month?

Payments for vehicles and toys maybe? People need to get real and understand that most make far less and are able to do just fine.

Don't forget the average cost of raising a kid, In Canada the average cost according to money sense is 12,825/year. That is average, including all the welfares, more if they play hockey, a lot more. So with 2 kids that is another $25,000 in my example. Down to $15,000 left, 20% savings rate more than eats up the rest.
Vehicles, Insurance, Medical, cheap vacation, clothes ect, ect, haven't even got to yet.

Not saying it can't be done, I am an extreme saving and the most frugal person I know, most people don't know how to do that. My point is, is even if the average oil worker didn't blow all his money he would have been wiped out anyways. The guys that blew there money, have negative net worth and huge payments are the lucky ones, they have nothing to lose and just get to walk away minus the bad credit.

The more I think about it I'm the dumb one. Working 250-300 days/year away from home saving all my money, paid off vehicles, house and gobs of cash I have a lot more to lose. Should of blew it all and had fun.

[Skytop B]

Don't forget to put some away to care for ailing parents, glad I did. That day came a lot sooner for me than I had anticipated.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by avb3

Exactly.

I recall a bank manager acquaintance of mine who said a few years ago that I would be surprised how many people making well into the six figure income range, have a debt load in excess of that, and very little net assets to show for it.

He also said there would be a ton of people in a world of hurt if the economy never slowed down.

I guess that time is now.

Would this be the same bank manager that was approving 25 year old kids for $450,000.00 mortgages?

[Domestique]

Originally Posted by avb3

Exactly.

I recall a bank manager acquaintance of mine who said a few years ago that I would be surprised how many people making well into the six figure income range, have a debt load in excess of that, and very little net assets to show for it.

He also said there would be a ton of people in a world of hurt if the economy never slowed down.

I guess that time is now.

Give it a rest..