16 percent rig utilization Jan 4

[JustMe]

So have we got anybody on the board that knows how the pay in the oil fields in Venezuala, Saudi etc is for the grunt (laborer, truck driver etc) jobs is like compared to here? I'm not talking specialists like engineers, chemists and the like, but the relatively no brainier jobs the locals do? I understand wages here have to go down so we can be competitive, but I'm curious how we compare? I don't doubt overseas wages will or have gone down to as the price of oil drops....

Originally Posted by dogpound

It's going to be very ugly here for some time. We have over built and had it so well for over a decade there is too much sloth and excess in the industry.



We did very well with oil prices between $25 to $45 per barrel, we will again some day. What people are missing is the reset over the next 18 months is going to be ugly, get your company situated to make money at $30/bbl and you will survive. We employed about 50% too many people in this sector for quite some time - the 50% remaining in the industry are going to be making 25 to 30% less when all is figured in.



Many companies will go broke creating a healthier environment for the service companies left standing and good opportunity for producers to secure assets at more reasonable capital costs. We are early in the cycle and drilling/completion costs are already off over 30% from 2 years ago.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JustMe

So have we got anybody on the board that knows how the pay in the oil fields in Venezuala, Saudi etc is for the grunt (laborer, truck driver etc) jobs is like compared to here? I'm not talking specialists like engineers, chemists and the like, but the relatively no brainier jobs the locals do? I understand wages here have to go down so we can be competitive, but I'm curious how we compare? I don't doubt overseas wages will or have gone down to as the price of oil drops....

Not sure, what do you suppose they pay civil servants or factory workers in Venezuela?

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by hal53

Not sure, what do you suppose they pay civil servants or factory workers in Venezuela?

Not sure. Hopefully someone will know, although I don't think Venezuela has much manufacturing etc. They do however have pretty cheap gas, I'm lead to believe.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Not sure. Hopefully someone will know, although I don't think Venezuela has much manufacturing etc. They do however have pretty cheap gas, I'm lead to believe.

So..if there is gasoline is pretty cheap, that would leave one to believe that their overall cost of living is less than ours?

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by hal53

So..if there is gasoline is pretty cheap, that would leave one to believe that their overall cost of living is less than ours?

Again, don't know. That's why I asked. Anyone know what the price of housing or a steak dinner costs in Venezuala?

Hal, it doesn't matter if we're going to try and be competitive with our prices. If they can produce it cheaper and IF labour plays a large part of the cost difference, well then it seems to me we'll have to change as I doubt they'll raise their prices to keep pare with ours...

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Again, don't know. That's why I asked. Anyone know what the price of housing or a steak dinner costs in Venezuala?

Hal, it doesn't matter if we're going to try and be competitive with our prices. If they can produce it cheaper and IF labour plays a large part of the cost difference, well then it seems to me we'll have to change as I doubt they'll raise their prices to keep pare with ours...

Well then, with that line of thinking....we should build a factory in Edmonton to build widgets, we can hire people for $5.00/hr. to work there, because that's more than they pay in a third world country. Problem solved, we have a diversified economy and we can all relax....I'm sure the Gov't. will waive that silly minimum wage thing for us, after all, we are doing what they want by bringing in new business, right?.
What prices do you want them to raise to keep parity with ours??

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by hal53

Well then, with that line of thinking....we should build a factory in Edmonton to build widgets, we can hire people for $5.00/hr. to work there, because that's more than they pay in a third world country. Problem solved, we have a diversified economy and we can all relax....I'm sure the Gov't. will waive that silly minimum wage thing for us, after all, we are doing what they want by bringing in new business, right?.

What prices do you want them to raise to keep parity with ours??

So, IF it costs less for labour in those countries (and I don't know if it does) and IF those labour costs play a significant part of the cost of a bbl of oil and IF you don't subscribe to my thought process, then how do you suggest we get our oil prices in line with theirs, knowing full well taxes and royalties are NOT going to go down here?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JustMe

So, IF it costs less for labour in those countries (and I don't know if it does) and IF those labour costs play a significant part of the cost of a bbl of oil and IF you don't subscribe to my thought process, then how do you suggest we get our oil prices in line with theirs, knowing full well taxes and royalties are NOT going to go down here?

Let's use some dirty words that socialists hate...
Free Enterprise and Capitalism..... everybody gets the exact same price for a barrel of comparable crude, I don't care where in the world it comes from. As a business man, I can investigate all costs at recovering that barrel of oil long before the rig spuds. If myself and my investors are happy with my business plan and the anticipated profits, we go ahead. On the other hand, in Saudi Arabia, the King can drill some wells, the whole Royal family is billionaires, while the rest of the population suffers, they have a simple solution for any citizens that speak against their " business plan", they just whack their head off and carry on...you decide which system you would prefer

[hihi962]

Well I for one am very glad the bubble burst! Finally!, is all I can say. Well, not really, I also say bring on $20/barrel.

What has Alberta really benefited from big oil? Other then poor work ethics in youth, broken down roads and infrastructure, overcrowded hospitals and other government services.. What did we actually gain? Nothing. Just imported tons of people, who are all now here scratching their heads, or stealing the crap out of actual Alberta residents. Rural Alberta is getting raped at the moment, because all those overpaid jobs disappeared and the ex oil workers are targeting them. Lets get real, in what other world is a welder paid more then a doctor? And then cry like crazy because the ultra overpaid job disappeared.
Why cant you criers just say " well it was sure good while it lasted, good thing I saved it all"
Nope, many put it up their nose, or bought a jet boat worth more then a house, and are now crying.
The last decade was a high boom, the sooner some of you can get used to that fact, the sooner you will realize no money or future is coming your way until you accept $20/hr is all you are really worth.

I will never forget offering guys $35/hr as general labourer with no skills or credentials, and I'd have kids 19 years old telling me to get bent, because they felt they were worth $45.
Now if I even see anything even related to oil in their resume, it goes straight in the junk.
So let the flaming of this post fly, but I for one am very happy oil has gone back down to normal price levels. I say leave it in the ground, perhaps then my great grand kids may be able to use some.
I'm not saying I'm happy guys are going broke, but i am happy that the greedy ones are eating crow. The reset button needed to be hit, Alberta survived without big oil before, it will again... I think there is a big cotton boom going on in the southern us, perhaps many should head there.

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by hal53

Let's use some dirty words that socialists hate...

Free Enterprise and Capitalism..... everybody gets the exact same price for a barrel of comparable crude, I don't care where in the world it comes from. As a business man, I can investigate all costs at recovering that barrel of oil long before the rig spuds. If myself and my investors are happy with my business plan and the anticipated profits, we go ahead. On the other hand, in Saudi Arabia, the King can drill some wells, the whole Royal family is billionaires, while the rest of the population suffers, they have a simple solution for any citizens that speak against their " business plan", they just whack their head off and carry on...you decide which system you would prefer

Well, I don't think your system will work. Capitalism being what is, someone will undercut someone and.... The exact same price is sort of a communist philosophy? And we know how well that works.

So I guess we remain higher priced than the rest of the world, just so we can keep the higher overhead costs? Hmmm. Not sure that's a great idea, but....

Regardless, I still don't have n answer to my original question, maybe we're arguing for no reason?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Well, I don't think your system will work. Capitalism being what is, someone will undercut someone and.... The exact same price is sort of a communist philosophy? And we know how well that works.

So I guess we remain higher priced than the rest of the world, just so we can keep the higher overhead costs? Hmmm. Not sure that's a great idea, but....

Regardless, I still don't have n answer to my original question, maybe we're arguing for no reason?

Not arguing, just saying you are comparing apples and oranges....and the difference between where the profits go in those countries. The higher over head costs here are a product of our standard of living, in boom times some people try to pad the bills definitely, I fight about that daily, the good, honest service providers are the ones that keep working, if costs get out of line and it becomes unprofitable, then we all sit. Wages, service prices, the whole shebang are going down across the board, but as I said in an earlier post, the oil companies have a very good idea before they spud a well, exactly what the costs are going to be to get that product to the flow tee, if the costs are too high, they shelve the project until the criteria meets their investors approval

[angery jonn]

justme, to answer your question there's countries in the middle east that pay between 5-50 bucks a day apparently. You can compare their wages to ours or the quality of life.

[angery jonn]

I've never met a 19yr old that would turn down a job for $35, sounds a little crazy.

Your also part of the reason people are crying though, they come to you looking for work and you throw their resume out because they worked in the patch? I don't get that way of thinking.

I know tons of guys who can't get a job anywhere because everyone is saying the same thing, your over qualified and will just leave if the patch picks up. I have rig managers working lease for me right now because there's nothing out there for them.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

I've never met a 19yr old that would turn down a job for $35, sounds a little crazy.

Your also part of the reason people are crying though, they come to you looking for work and you throw their resume out because they worked in the patch? I don't get that way of thinking.

I know tons of guys who can't get a job anywhere because everyone is saying the same thing, your over qualified and will just leave if the patch picks up. I have rig managers working lease for me right now because there's nothing out there for them.

my driller and derrick hand worked on a farm for harvest this year, and were damn happy to get the hours....

[ctd]

Most people I know don't work 12-16 hrs a day. Outside in the cold, heat,sleet or rain. They don't spend 2/3rd of their life living out of a suit case. They don't worry if tomorrow they will be laid off.
They don't operate and be responsible for a . $2,000,000 plus piece of equipment and then be responsible for a multi million dollar well.

20 years ago drilling and stimulation was different. Processes were different so we're the cost.
I know for the past ten years equipment has gotten more complex, bigger and or much more powerful. So has the cost to buy, operate and maintain it.

Some of the oil and gas we have and still are going after was not feasible 20 years ago. It is nowadays. Simply due to the equipment.

Wells even the old screamers would be shut in during lower prices.
Fields would be shut in if hey required work overs untill prices went up or they needed the field.
Darn we have put wells online for a couple of months to pay for themselves only to shut them in for future production.

I really am curious as to what the actual break even point is to extract a bbl of oil from the Oil sands, sagd and then conventional well. It might surprise us.

As.for putting one cost for all oil. You can't. Oils all have different viscosity and such yield different processes to refine. Also some grades are better for finished products then others. You would have to set a standard for oil and not process any other outside of that grade. End result would be less production and less product.

[reddeerguy2015]

Originally Posted by hihi962

Well I for one am very glad the bubble burst! Finally!, is all I can say. Well, not really, I also say bring on $20/barrel.

What has Alberta really benefited from big oil? Other then poor work ethics in youth, broken down roads and infrastructure, overcrowded hospitals and other government services.. What did we actually gain? Nothing. Just imported tons of people, who are all now here scratching their heads, or stealing the crap out of actual Alberta residents. Rural Alberta is getting raped at the moment, because all those overpaid jobs disappeared and the ex oil workers are targeting them. Lets get real, in what other world is a welder paid more then a doctor? And then cry like crazy because the ultra overpaid job disappeared.
Why cant you criers just say " well it was sure good while it lasted, good thing I saved it all"
Nope, many put it up their nose, or bought a jet boat worth more then a house, and are now crying.
The last decade was a high boom, the sooner some of you can get used to that fact, the sooner you will realize no money or future is coming your way until you accept $20/hr is all you are really worth.

I will never forget offering guys $35/hr as general labourer with no skills or credentials, and I'd have kids 19 years old telling me to get bent, because they felt they were worth $45.
Now if I even see anything even related to oil in their resume, it goes straight in the junk.
So let the flaming of this post fly, but I for one am very happy oil has gone back down to normal price levels. I say leave it in the ground, perhaps then my great grand kids may be able to use some.
I'm not saying I'm happy guys are going broke, but i am happy that the greedy ones are eating crow. The reset button needed to be hit, Alberta survived without big oil before, it will again... I think there is a big cotton boom going on in the southern us, perhaps many should head there.

As "crude" as this post may seem (no pun intended...) this guy is right, or at least has some damn good points.

Do you guys that own 5 or 6 hundred thousand dollar houses in the hamptons believe they are *actually* worth that??? I mean - really, 8 or 9 years ago they were half that. What actually makes you think they are worth TWICE as much, 8 years later??

Are they build from materials that are twice as good?? Will your house last longer?? Maybe the labour that built your house is better?? Quite the opposite really - housing is getting to be the same way the rest of society is, cheap. Throw away. Cheap materials, appliances that last 7 years - plastic houses, all to save a buck and the consumers just eat it right up.

I grew up in an older house (1957), 5 people, 4 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Both my parents worked (not the 'patch), and we never lived high on the hog. No new vehicles, etc. Are (were) they compelled to buy a mansion that costs 6 to 8 hundred k, just to impress neighbours or friends ?? Hell no.

That's the problem with todays society - every 23 year old ruffneck or derrickhand thinks he's entitled to a 500k house, a 70k pickup truck, a sled, bike, quad, boat, Christ the list goes on.

Then what happens?? The boom ends and literally, a lot of patch workers have ****ed their money away.

Alberta needed a reset. Hell even Canada or North America needs it. Prices are ridiculous on almost every damn thing we buy, from housing, to fuel, food, services - you name it.

One thing I would like to come back to a reasonable price is housing. It is one of those things that just drives me crazy - property is not worth what it costs in Alberta.

So, if your truly sick of the boom/bust cycle, constantly being in fear of your job, living out of a suitcase, working in the weather, etc etc etc - change your career. Now is the perfect time.

Go to school, switch industries or start a small business and work for yourself.

I worked the 'patch for 8 years, did exactly that and I've never looked back. Its not "impossible". You guys work damn hard in the oil sector, hardest workers out there - apply that work ethic towards a business plan and you will do just fine.

[ESOXangler]

Reddeerguy,

If everyone quit the patch and started small businesses you'd be out of work. The world needs natural resources and that's a fact. Everyone serves a purpose. But the most important thing to consider is people are hurting, lives are being ruined. You are sad because house prices are too sad? I'm sad because people that got an education, worked hard, and sacrificed themselves are having their lives crashing around them.

That's great that you grew up in a house from 1957 and didn't have the best of everything. But it seems you missed the most important lesson that life could of taught you. It's about people, it's not about materials. Don't be envious of others, appreciate what you have.

[reddeerguy2015]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Reddeerguy,

If everyone quit the patch and started small businesses you'd be out of work. The world needs natural resources and that's a fact. Everyone serves a purpose. But the most important thing to consider is people are hurting, lives are being ruined. You are sad because house prices are too sad? I'm sad because people that got an education, worked hard, and sacrificed themselves are having their lives crashing around them.

That's great that you grew up in a house from 1957 and didn't have the best of everything. But it seems you missed the most important lesson that life could of taught you. It's about people, it's not about materials. Don't be envious of others, appreciate what you have.

If everyone quit the patch and started small business - our economy would be extremely diversified and we wouldn't be in this mess, don't you think??

We've put all our eggs into one basket, which just happens to be a non-stop rollercoaster. There is going be those that fall off.

Having a strictly resource based economy is dangerous and volatile and we are starting to see the results of it.

It's not the end of the world, its just change (I know, most people hate it).

If people are "crashing and burning", then I'm going to go on a limb and say they were probably living outside of their means, which is a life lesson in itself.

If you can't pay rent (mortgage), food, bills and expenses from a $25 to $35/hour job (assuming a 2 person income household) - you are probably carrying way to much debt and as I already stated, living outside of your means.

[ctd]

I figured out my wage and it's closer to $18 an hour for hours worked.

The patch has not driven the cost of housing up across the country.
It's not unusual to see $500,000 dollar homes in BC, Ont long before I even knew what the Oilfield was.

If you can offer me a $35 a hour job 40hrs a week within the Red Deer area outside the oil patch I will send you my resume right away. I will dig ditches drive truck what ever.

I tried to start my own business, with my meager $200,000 mortgage and truck payment and insecurity in my job the bank says I am a high risk to loan to because of the seasonality of my work.
If you have $300,000 to loan me on a low intrest loan so I can get started that would be awesome. The cost of equipment is huge and fuel bills even bigger.

Friends of mine own companies and they all admit that a good portion of their business is the Oilfield. With out that money 40% of their customer base would be gone. They are not in Alberta. They are small business owners and would not be in business. Right now are still busy untill that oilfield money drys up. Soon after that the foreign invested money will be gone also and the construcuin industry will be in hole.

I have friends who are Project Managers non oilfield and they are sitting idle because there is a lack of work.
I have friends who are welders non oilfield who are laid off due to lack of work.

Not everyone in tough time is oilfield employed. But this down turn has affected them.

I know many people who will not hire oilfield workers. One of the reasons is they pay crap wages with poor hours and they known it. So they blame the oil patch for their employment turnover. In fact it's related to a livable wage amd crappy work environment.

I work my butt off for many years for poor wages. I also worked hard for fair wages.


Please flood me with yur $35 an hour wage in Red Deer and I will find you good hard workers. Looking for a honest wage.

Cheers

[qwert]

Originally Posted by reddeerguy2015

If everyone quit the patch and started small business - our economy would be extremely diversified and we wouldn't be in this mess, don't you think??
snip

Governments love small business start-ups because the operators are no longer counted as unemployed.

Starting and running a small business requires skills that many/most wage workers do not have.

Economists say that we can not build an economy by taking in each others laundry. You cannot build a business serving customers with no money.

That said, a downturn can be a good time to start a small business, provided that you have sufficient capital to finance the startup costs and purchase all needed equipment. (You will be bidding against Americans with 1.4x dollars) Banks only lend to people who do not need money. IF you have capital, then equipment MAY be available very cheap, but is it the right equipment? If you buy smart your costs may be lower than your competitors, and you may be able to acquire market share and a customer base that can build market positioning that can be expanded quickly when/if the economy recovers. You must be able to work for a significant time before there will be any profits or sufficient cash flow to draw much of a wage, best to have a teacher or nurse for a wife, and no teenagers needing education. Don't plan on many holidays.

Economists say that 'a rising tide raises all boats', and 'in a tornado even turkeys can fly', but the reverse is also true and in a deflationary depression you can do everything right and still fail. Accounts receivable cost money to acquire, but have little value until collected, and many won’t be, but expenses still need to be paid. Many customers try to use their suppliers for financing they don't have and the banks won’t give them.

All three governments have an unlimited budget and servants who love to enforce a multitude of regulations, permits, fees, deposits, licensing, insurance, accounting and reporting requirements, none of which will you be paid to perform, and all are payable even if you are losing money, or have not been paid. If you fail you will lose your house and probably your wife and family.

There are specialized niche businesses that do not require a lot of capital but these tend to have a LOT more competition. If you do have capital, do you really want to spend it to buy yourself a job with no guarantees and MANY MANY uncontrollable risks?

What is the difference between a wage/debt slave and a real slave?
The wage/debt slave must find their own job, and pay for their own room and board and all expenses.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[reddeerguy2015]

Originally Posted by ctd

I figured out my wage and it's closer to $18 an hour for hours worked.

The patch has not driven the cost of housing up across the country.
It's not unusual to see $500,000 dollar homes in BC, Ont long before I even knew what the Oilfield was.

If you can offer me a $35 a hour job 40hrs a week within the Red Deer area outside the oil patch I will send you my resume right away. I will dig ditches drive truck what ever.

I tried to start my own business, with my meager $200,000 mortgage and truck payment and insecurity in my job the bank says I am a high risk to loan to because of the seasonality of my work.
If you have $300,000 to loan me on a low intrest loan so I can get started that would be awesome. The cost of equipment is huge and fuel bills even bigger.

Friends of mine own companies and they all admit that a good portion of their business is the Oilfield. With out that money 40% of their customer base would be gone. They are not in Alberta. They are small business owners and would not be in business. Right now are still busy untill that oilfield money drys up. Soon after that the foreign invested money will be gone also and the construcuin industry will be in hole.

I have friends who are Project Managers non oilfield and they are sitting idle because there is a lack of work.
I have friends who are welders non oilfield who are laid off due to lack of work.

Not everyone in tough time is oilfield employed. But this down turn has affected them.

I know many people who will not hire oilfield workers. One of the reasons is they pay crap wages with poor hours and they known it. So they blame the oil patch for their employment turnover. In fact it's related to a livable wage amd crappy work environment.

I work my butt off for many years for poor wages. I also worked hard for fair wages.


Please flood me with yur $35 an hour wage in Red Deer and I will find you good hard workers. Looking for a honest wage.

Cheers

I never said the oilpatch drove up housing prices. I said Alberta needs a reset to bring prices down to a reasonable cost for all those families that don't live on a patch salary (when times are good, i guess).

Wages certainly havent kept up with inflation in whole - so to say its OK for housing prices to double every time Alberta has another oil boom is ludicrious.

How the hell are any of our kids going to be able to afford to buy a house in 20 years if a standard 3 bedroom costs 750k???

If you see where im going with - they wont. So unless they have some major hand me downs from mom and dad, good luck.

Next - what in the world would you need a 300k loan for to start a small business?? This is why it wouldnt work out - start small and grow with a moderate pace. Taking on massive amounts of debt to run a business is no different than piling on personal debt - it will run you into the ground.

I started my business 5 years ago, seasonal, with one truck and one person doing everything - me. I have 4 service trucks on the road now and a team of 5 guys. Am i making a killing ?? No - but i'm putting food on the table and doing my best to give my kids the lifestyle i think they deserve.

Its hard work, physically and mentally. The amount of time you will put in running a successful small business is as much or more than you would working the patch, but the difference is you are not completely reliant on somebody else, especially when times get tough.

I didnt come on here to rag on anyone or kick them while theyre down - just to give some of you a different perspective.

Cheers and good luck.

[79ford]

Originally Posted by Skytop B

Can you guys talk about gas for a bit?

Natural gas seems to defy odds, we burn lpg where i work instead of selling it because methane is currently more pricey to buy from third parties. Some how the united states manages to break new production records and storage levels every year despite the pricing being sub par. Gas has been kinda lousy for years it seems.

[JustMe]

Well said by both yourself and the quote in your reply. This really is the reset that Alberta needs. If you want a steady, well paying job, go to school get an education, go to university or get a trade, pay your dues for a few years and then start making a truly livable wage. There is no flipping way someone with no real credentials/job experience should be making more than minimum wage or there abouts, IMO. No wonder we can't compete on the world (oil) market wih the mindset that we had recently promoted here..... But having said that, you can't blame people for taking advantage of the bubble either, the companies should probably blame themselves just as much for their current strife.

Not sure why housing is so much more here than the US. We have the materials and the land to build them while in a lot of cases around major centers in the US they have neither. Maybe just what folks are willingly/dumb enough to pay for? I agree, by US standards, those new $500 K houses here would oftencase sell for less than $200 K in the US. Go figure? Greed?

Originally Posted by reddeerguy2015

As "crude" as this post may seem (no pun intended...) this guy is right, or at least has some damn good points.

Do you guys that own 5 or 6 hundred thousand dollar houses in the hamptons believe they are *actually* worth that??? I mean - really, 8 or 9 years ago they were half that. What actually makes you think they are worth TWICE as much, 8 years later??

Are they build from materials that are twice as good?? Will your house last longer?? Maybe the labour that built your house is better?? Quite the opposite really - housing is getting to be the same way the rest of society is, cheap. Throw away. Cheap materials, appliances that last 7 years - plastic houses, all to save a buck and the consumers just eat it right up.

I grew up in an older house (1957), 5 people, 4 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Both my parents worked (not the 'patch), and we never lived high on the hog. No new vehicles, etc. Are (were) they compelled to buy a mansion that costs 6 to 8 hundred k, just to impress neighbours or friends ?? Hell no.

That's the problem with todays society - every 23 year old ruffneck or derrickhand thinks he's entitled to a 500k house, a 70k pickup truck, a sled, bike, quad, boat, Christ the list goes on.

Then what happens?? The boom ends and literally, a lot of patch workers have ****ed their money away.

Alberta needed a reset. Hell even Canada or North America needs it. Prices are ridiculous on almost every damn thing we buy, from housing, to fuel, food, services - you name it.

One thing I would like to come back to a reasonable price is housing. It is one of those things that just drives me crazy - property is not worth what it costs in Alberta.

So, if your truly sick of the boom/bust cycle, constantly being in fear of your job, living out of a suitcase, working in the weather, etc etc etc - change your career. Now is the perfect time.

Go to school, switch industries or start a small business and work for yourself.

I worked the 'patch for 8 years, did exactly that and I've never looked back. Its not "impossible". You guys work damn hard in the oil sector, hardest workers out there - apply that work ethic towards a business plan and you will do just fine.

[ctd]

Lol. I guess the oil boom effected soutern Ontario and BC interior, coast and island markets for house prices.
House prices around the country are insane. Not just because of the price of oil. Because the banks can.

A guy needs capitol nowadays to run a business. They also needs the secured funds to carry them through. With a $600 a day fuel bill. 3 month hold back on payment a guy needs a safety net to get a business going now adays.

As for the rest of the anti oil bashing glad it's crashed people. Good luck with your thoughts of the market will correct itself.
The banks will take care of that and ensure they don't loose their money.

[angery jonn]

everything in the US is cheaper, their dollar is stronger and the goods we get up here are transport from there, its not rocket science.

And if I hear this garbage about getting a trade or going to school again, I'm going to loose it. There is not to many jobs in the patch that don't require a journey man ticket anymore, including being a rig hand. Lease hands and Floor hand are basically considered labor's, once you become a Motor hand you are required to start your Alberta Rig tech apprenticeship. So please, enough with the get a trade or a real job garbage. People spend entire life times in this trade, it's a good trade and should be a respected trade. These boys work their bags off out here, buy a nice truck and a few toys and everyone slams them. Yet no one bats an eye at the 26yr old lawyer or finical advisor driving a Benz, oh wait he wait to school and got a real job.

Canada as a whole has more personal debt then any other country, so the oil field is not the problem, reality!

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Natural gas seems to defy odds, we burn lpg where i work instead of selling it because methane is currently more pricey to buy from third parties. Some how the united states manages to break new production records and storage levels every year despite the pricing being sub par. Gas has been kinda lousy for years it seems.

Yeah they need to ramp up the chemical industry to deal with the feedstock that is going to continue to spinoff from shale gas development. Development is behind the curve right now and companies are literally giving away propane. Seeing retail prices have hardly moved someone is making a killing cause the oil companies ain't getting squat...prices have even hit negative territory at times.

[Badlildoggy]

Originally Posted by hihi962

Well I for one am very glad the bubble burst! Finally!, is all I can say. Well, not really, I also say bring on $20/barrel.

What has Alberta really benefited from big oil? Other then poor work ethics in youth, broken down roads and infrastructure, overcrowded hospitals and other government services.. What did we actually gain? Nothing. Just imported tons of people, who are all now here scratching their heads, or stealing the crap out of actual Alberta residents. Rural Alberta is getting raped at the moment, because all those overpaid jobs disappeared and the ex oil workers are targeting them. Lets get real, in what other world is a welder paid more then a doctor? And then cry like crazy because the ultra overpaid job disappeared.
Why cant you criers just say " well it was sure good while it lasted, good thing I saved it all"
Nope, many put it up their nose, or bought a jet boat worth more then a house, and are now crying.
The last decade was a high boom, the sooner some of you can get used to that fact, the sooner you will realize no money or future is coming your way until you accept $20/hr is all you are really worth.

I will never forget offering guys $35/hr as general labourer with no skills or credentials, and I'd have kids 19 years old telling me to get bent, because they felt they were worth $45.
Now if I even see anything even related to oil in their resume, it goes straight in the junk.
So let the flaming of this post fly, but I for one am very happy oil has gone back down to normal price levels. I say leave it in the ground, perhaps then my great grand kids may be able to use some.
I'm not saying I'm happy guys are going broke, but i am happy that the greedy ones are eating crow. The reset button needed to be hit, Alberta survived without big oil before, it will again... I think there is a big cotton boom going on in the southern us, perhaps many should head there.

I think that maybe I agree with a few underlying things that you are maybe trying to say here, however you are clearly one of the bitter "have-nots" or have been deprived in some way by the "boom" and success of others.

I would like to start by saying that I am a proud Oilman of many years, one of those "uneducated", "greedy", "rig pigs" that has spent his adult career pursuit of perfection in one of the most technical and demanding industries that there has ever been. In what other industry are you expected to be modestly knowledgeable in engine mechanics, electrical repair, Hydraulics systems repair, chemistry, pneumatic system function and repair, computer skills, well control and above average math skills and the list goes on.....Now mix in some brutally hard labor and perform those other skills in remote locations day after day, for obscene periods of time, during inclement weather with minimal rest. Top it all off with being away from your family for unknown periods of time and no semblance of a work schedule.

You are probably one of the 75% of people that I have seen fail miserably at the "easy money" us "Rig Pigs" make. Or one of those bitter people that lost a job in the oil patch that shouldn't have been created in the first place.

The fact that you would discard an Oilman's resume shows that you are ignorant. The most intelligent, diverse and driven people I have ever met are also Oilmen. For you to say that we are not worth what we were getting paid also says you are ignorant, having not been in the industry yourself. Like I said earlier, if it was easy then why have I personally seen 3-4 of every 5 that have tried this business. There is no formal education certificate for the education we receive out there but I assure you, it is ample and you would be impressed. I would personally hire an Oilman over any other tradesman if presented a choice because of those qualities, and we don't hide behind a Union.

I agree with you that the pricing of goods, services and real estate has gotten too high. I also know that there are ignorant Oilmen just like there are ignorant people in general. I am sorry that you have had difficulties in the past with getting good help. The fact is those past issues are not our fault. The truth is, nobody asked for this boom and certainly nobody asked for the bust. Also, for people to not have taken advantage of those high paying employment and training opportunities would have been ridiculous. We have produced the finest skilled tradesmen in the world (Diploma or not) from Alberta and that is something to be proud of.

[reddeerhunter]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Reddeerguy,

If everyone quit the patch and started small businesses you'd be out of work. The world needs natural resources and that's a fact. Everyone serves a purpose. But the most important thing to consider is people are hurting, lives are being ruined. You are sad because house prices are too sad? I'm sad because people that got an education, worked hard, and sacrificed themselves are having their lives crashing around them.

That's great that you grew up in a house from 1957 and didn't have the best of everything. But it seems you missed the most important lesson that life could of taught you. It's about people, it's not about materials. Don't be envious of others, appreciate what you have.

My favorite post of 2016. Winning!!!!!! Very well said EXO, KARMA is a powerful word. Be humble, not jealous, help out, don't sit back and whine. Be happy for people. Simple isn't it?

[hal53]

So Brad Wall just announced a company is spending 142 million in 2016with 80% of that in Sask. patch this year, couple that with the 160M or so Crescent Point announced on Wednesday that is also going to Sask. Funny thing is they both mentioned why the money is going there and not Alberta, as usual the companies have figured out how to make things work with the depressed value of their commodity. If anyone is interested what their news releases said , google Lex Management or Crescent Point Energy

[fargineyesore]

Glad to know some of you are happy people are losing their jobs. Real losers of people you are. Did you feel the same when the Auto Companies in Southern Ontario were going bankrupt? Oh you didn't have to, because our tax dollars were used to shore up those companies so the lazy overpaid auto workers could keep their jobs. Funny how Albertans are expected to take lower wages to be competitive, but not auto workers in Ontario. They're special I guess.