Moose calf season

[Sheepcrazyguy]

How does everyone feel about the moose calf season?I for one think it will cause a decline in the number of moose.If it hasn't already.If you want to change it contact SRD and voice your concern.

[new albertan]

How do you think a calf season is going to hurt the population? Would it not seem better to go for a calf rather than an adult breeding moose? I would really think this would help especially with moose because if memory serves me right a bull moose generally does not bred before 4.5 to 5.5 years of age and a cow moose will go barren if a moose of this age is not available. If im wrong by all means tell me i have no source for this information.

[SakoAlberta]

Originally Posted by Sheepcrazyguy

How does everyone feel about the moose calf season?I for one think it will cause a decline in the number of moose.If it hasn't already.If you want to change it contact SRD and voice your concern.

How so? Calves suffer , by far, the highest motality of any age group in their first winter(around 60% in most areas)so removing one by hunting is, more likely than not, taking a moose that will not see spring anyway.

[Sheepcrazyguy]

Good questions.My way of thinking is that let's say there's 100 moose calves born in one season.Now let's say 50% die before they reach 1.5 years of age,from nonhunting causes.That leaves 50% to maintain the present adult population.
Now let's back up to the 100 moose calves again.Let's issue 30 tags.As hunters we'll take whatever calf we see.Strong or weak.Now we're down to 70 moose calves,how many will die from nonhunting causes before reaching 1.5 years?It won't be the same 50 calves as in the beginning.So to me every year we have a calf season we start out with less 1.5 year olds.Maybe I'm way out in left field here but that's how I'm looking at it.
I know these aren't exact figures only numbers used to show what I'm thinking.

[SakoAlberta]

Of course you are starting with fewer 1.5 yr olds. However, look at it this way; if calves suffer 60% mortality from 'natural causes', each time one is killed from hunting, we are only taking .4 of a moose (statistically speaking). If adult moose typiclly suffer a 10% mortality(that figure can very widely, of course) then each time one is shot, we are taking .9 of a moose. Also, there is a cap to herd size called 'carrying capacity' and there is only so much room for the 'recruitment' of calves into the herd.

[new albertan]

The number arent exact your right and that is excactly the problem i see with your argument. In all reality the biologist who set limits and season have the exact numbers or really close. They are paid to do this and i doubt they would set limits high enough that it would be to the detriment of the herd. They tend to know what they are doing. My thoughts anyway.

[Copidosoma]

My understanding (and I don't claim to be absolutely correct) is that areas where there are draws for cow/calf moose are areas where they intend to decrease the populations of moose. Either to reduce road mortality or to relieve pressure on other species (caribou for example).

[308 man]

Have hunted moose calves for years and as long as there is no cow season did not see a reduction in the moose herd, but as soon as there was a cow season
a sharp reduction in a few years. Need to be managed the same as a farmer
manages his beef heard. A few calves to replace the cows that die and the moose hunting will be fine.

[Sheepcrazyguy]

Lots of good answers!Thanks everyone!

[JohninAB]

Copidsoma hit the nail on the head. As far as I know, the cow/calf season is to reduce the alternative prey species for wolves which in turn helps the caribou out alot.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by new albertan

In all reality the biologist who set limits and season have the exact numbers or really close. They are paid to do this and i doubt they would set limits high enough that it would be to the detriment of the herd. They tend to know what they are doing. My thoughts anyway.

I don't think so. I don't think that they do yearly surveys because if they did then they wouldn't have had a calf moose season in the Valleyview area. There was a huge moose die off during the winter of 06-07 due to very heavy snow fall and ticks. I know of a couple of trappers in that area and one told me of finding 23 winter killed moose on his trapline. Moose used to be thick in that area but now you would be hard pressed to find them. It's the same with deer in this area-they took a very hard hit from the winter of 06-07 but yet they still have a mulie doe season.

As far as shooting a calf-I think if the population supports it then it does a good job of keeping the bull/cow ratio from getting too high.

[NCC]

Part of the problem is that the biologist takes a year to do his study, it takes another year to decide what to do, and then SRD is 3 years behind the trend. I'm from Valleyview and there was a calf season here where I haven't seen a moose for 2 years. There are a few around (from tracks and trail cam pics) but not very many. Yet if you read the game reports they list increasing or stable populations for the Peace country. One group I know got skunked for the first time in 25 years.

I agree that harvesting calves has a much smaller impact on the population than harvesting cows.

[new albertan]

I have to put my support behind the biologists im sure they make mistakes but ill bet there right more times than you think. Just because farmer joe down the road didnt see a deer in his field this year doesnt mean the deer wasnt there.

[TBark]

huntnut & NCC, Right on, IMO.
There should have been no calf tags in the Valleyview and Peace regions this past year. The surveys are a few years behind. The moose #'s are way down since the '06 - '07 winter, and the tag allocation did not account for this.

TBark

[Cam-hunter]

In 523 i counted 14 cow calf pairs and at least 10 bulls in as little as a 10 square K radius in 1 day and that was only the ones i saw from the truck the Moose population is just fine up here. (2 weeks ago)

Cam

[baptiste]

510 has had a bull/calf draw for years and seems to be working fine. I'm seeing plenty of moose and also on my trail cams.

[AB2506]

When I took a wildlife management class in College, the rationale for the calf season was: 1) it gave hunters greater opportunity without significantly reducing the population because a) 60% would die from natural causes, hunters are harvesting from the total yearly recruitment class, before the winter die off b) reducing the calf population actually had little effect as there was more feed for remaining calfs, calf survival rate may actually be higher.
2) adult cows have greater odds of surviving the winter than a calf.
3) an adult cow is more reproductively successful than a 1.5 yr cow.
4) an adult cow is more likely to raise calf through the winter than a 1.5 yr cow with her first calf.

So, if a population is under pressure, reduce bull harvest, eliminate or severely restrict the cow harvest, allow a responsible harvest of calves. This will allow hunting opportunity and still allow population to recover, if weather/food is normal.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by new albertan

I have to put my support behind the biologists im sure they make mistakes but ill bet there right more times than you think. Just because farmer joe down the road didnt see a deer in his field this year doesnt mean the deer wasnt there.

You can believe them all you want-I'll put my money on those that live and breathe in the outdoors in these areas where the biologists make their living.

Just to add to this I know of several people who got the calf moose draw for the Valleyview area just to take those tags out of the system-they ahd no intentions of getting/using those tags.

[Deercove]

Originally Posted by TBark

huntnut & NCC, Right on, IMO.
There should have been no calf tags in the Valleyview and Peace regions this past year. The surveys are a few years behind. The moose #'s are way down since the '06 - '07 winter, and the tag allocation did not account for this.

TBark

I have seen few calf moose in the Valleyview area the past few years which makes me think TBark has a valid point.

[bandit@astrocom-on.com]

I don't know how your MNR runs things out there,but I do know how they run things here in Ont. They are planning to introduce a calf draw for us here.
They are stating that the hunters are taking too many animals, and calves are getting hit hard. So to bring back the herd, (can't stop the hunt - too many $$$ loss for the Ministry) so you stop the automatic calf tag, and bring out a calf draw.
As far as I'm concerned, it's mismanagement on the mnr's side of issuing too many tags for a herd that is struggling. If your herd is struggling in numbers, then shorten your season & your tag numbers. Then when the numbers climb back to appropriate numbers, then extend the season & tags to control them.
With the MNR's coffers being damn near empty here in Ont. the almighty dollar is speaking louder that common sense.
Even if you crunch the numbers of winter kills, if you loose 60% during the winter, and still allow 20% to be taken by hunters, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure your going to run out of breeding stock - And I'm not even a farmer to boot.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Deercove

I have seen few calf moose in the Valleyview area the past few years which makes me think TBark has a valid point.

Tbark speaks the truth. Even to the point of the local F/W guy telling me 2 years ago that there would be NO MORE calf tags for the zone North of Valleyview.

This is a true story.

In the fall of 06 we stopped counting at 200 moose in 5 days, in fact they were getting a bit anoying.
In the fall of 07 (Same week, same weather) we saw 25 total. I ate my calf tag after seeing the massive destruction.
In the fall of 08 Earlier in the year, we saw a total of 10

BUT yet they still had left over tags available for the calfs for both of those seasons.

Obviously a adjustment needs to be made.
I think Calf Moose tags are a great idea under the right circumstances.

Jamie

[wildlifebio]

Hey,

I happened to have this diagram that clearly shows the benefits of calf moose management over cow moose harvest management in regards to population control. Basically it shows that there is a time lag between when a calf will reproduce when a cow is harvested versus when a calf is harvested instead. So like many previous posts indicated selective harvests of calves do not impact the population to nearly the same extent as cow harvest.

I can understand your frustrations for those of you around Valleyview that are not happy with the moose management of your particular WMU; however, it is important to remember our provincial biologists are doing the best they can with the resources available to them. Government funding towards are wildlife management is poor at best and therefore I recommend lobbying your elected official for more support for our provincial wildlife programs. More funding could mean annual surveys and better population estimates, which of course would translate to better management. (For the record I am not a provincial biologist but know many of them and all of them are stand up people and outdoorsmen/women just like us and I know for a fact they are doing the job to the best of their abilities).

[Albertabowhunter]

Originally Posted by SakoAlberta

Of course you are starting with fewer 1.5 yr olds. However, look at it this way; if calves suffer 60% mortality from 'natural causes', each time one is killed from hunting, we are only taking .4 of a moose (statistically speaking). If adult moose typiclly suffer a 10% mortality(that figure can very widely, of course) then each time one is shot, we are taking .9 of a moose. Also, there is a cap to herd size called 'carrying capacity' and there is only so much room for the 'recruitment' of calves into the herd.

Dont forget the greater the number of prey animals causes a increase in predators, wolves, cougars, coyotes.... reducing the weaker wil in turn reduce the predators...

[Bushrat]

In BC they used to ask those with anterless moose tags that if they came acros a cow with a calf to shoot the calf. If you shoot the cow the remaining calves have lost their guidance for the long winter coming and there survival chances are hindered even more. The calf if it does survive the winter will not be having any calves come spring . If you choose to shoot calf the mother lives and will likely have a couple calves being that since she has already had previous calves and is obviously mature most likely will have twins or possibly triplets so by spring so you will have two, three, possibly 4 moose as opposed to possibly having only one or two surviving calves left had you shot the cow.

1 calf = 1 yearling next spring if it survives.
1 cow = 1 cow + up to 3 calves next spring

[new albertan]

Excellent chart wildlifebio thanks alot for posting it. Could you tell me where you would get such a chart. Would love to see more information along these lines.