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  #31  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:01 AM
Masterchief Masterchief is offline
 
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No it's not one small example, it is a big one
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  #32  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:03 AM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
One small example lol. I can show you ruts four feet deep on 45% grade that are caused by dirt bikers. These run directly down to the old man river carrying sediment that is know to be harmful to spawning fish. Do you support this kind of activity?

and i can show you where livestock have completely destroyed the riparian zone and spawn beds in streams and creeks. Where is the outcry about that? what is the plan to mitigate that?
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  #33  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:11 AM
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Albertadiver Albertadiver is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
please keep all informed on what can be done, open houses, petitions, letter writing, on line surveys, et. I'm assuming AOHVA knows about this? let all know what needs to happen to have our voices heard.
Oh it's been well documented, and going on for a few years now.

What caught my eye is that even the Alpine Club of Canada (which is in heavy support of conservation, leave no trace, etc.) is concerned about what this will mean.

If those guys are worried, then I'm definitely worried.
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  #34  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
please keep all informed on what can be done, open houses, petitions, letter writing, on line surveys, et. I'm assuming AOHVA knows about this? let all know what needs to happen to have our voices heard.
Joe is right. If you truly want to retain your privlages then you should voice your concerns to the powers that be. Instead of pointing fingers at those who oppose you on an open forum. I’m not responsible for the footprint left behind nor am I responsible for the new regulations layed out on the table.
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  #35  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
and i can show you where livestock have completely destroyed the riparian zone and spawn beds in streams and creeks. Where is the outcry about that? what is the plan to mitigate that?
You should voice your concern to someone that can do something about it. Not to me as I am but a lone citizen with only one vote. Make sure you have a plan in place first. Not just talking,but actions.
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  #36  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:17 AM
250mark1 250mark1 is offline
 
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yet there is a large coal mine that is going in along the north ram river
just to the north of where the south and north ram rivers meet
with a massive conveyor belt that will go right over the ram river valley
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  #37  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:34 AM
Cal R. Cal R. is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
please keep all informed on what can be done, open houses, petitions, letter writing, on line surveys, et. I'm assuming AOHVA knows about this? let all know what needs to happen to have our voices heard.
AOHVA is actively involved
http://aohva.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Alberta-Off...2048513495867/

Like and share these links
Cal
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  #38  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:40 AM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
You should voice your concern to someone that can do something about it. Not to me as I am but a lone citizen with only one vote. Make sure you have a plan in place first. Not just talking,but actions.
what burns me is they agenda seems to be get rid of OHV's, not lets look at all the issues and clean them all up. That would obviously fly up the nose of certain groups they are aligning with. Same old BS. I would rather they have the ####s to come clean and say this is the group we are targeting, and this is our agenda. These groups assume we are to stupid to figure things out.
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  #39  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Who would of guessed that K country is tabling a draft plan to shut down bow hunting out side it's designated area.


Don

Hi Don,
Tried to send a pm...

Can you expand on this?
Provide any documentation?

Thanks,
Dale
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  #40  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Hi Don,
Tried to send a pm...

Can you expand on this?
Provide any documentation?

Thanks,
Dale
This is on the edge of K country. Have a look.
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  #41  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:32 AM
normstad normstad is offline
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
As a hunter my main goal is conservation. This is what hunters should be most concerned about. Or else our hunting privileges are at risk. Limiting motorized vehicle use on the eastern slopes would reduce the footprint left behind by people that use these areas. Setting land aside from over use is also conservation. What are your goals Newview? I’ve been practicing conservation for over fourty years. I’ve seen the transformation of outdoor enthusiasts who used to walk the creek to fish it. Now they drive the atv up down and across it to access the fishin hole.when they can’t get through the big mud hole they created they just cut a new path to get around . Then again and again. How long you been an outdoors man? And what have you done to conserve?
It's good to see a voice of reason among the call for unfettered use cause, "Gosh darn it, son, it's my right".

Hunters and anglers USED to be the first who promoted conservation. Reading many of the comments and threads on here, I'm not so sure that is the case any more.
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  #42  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:19 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Or else our hunting privileges are at risk.
One more question - if you support an OHV ban because of a few lawbreakers, would you support a hunting ban because of a few lawbreakers? Thoughts?
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  #43  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
One more question - if you support an OHV ban because of a few lawbreakers, would you support a hunting ban because of a few lawbreakers? Thoughts?
It’s not about breaking the law son. It’s about destroying habitat and nature. ATVs are not apart of nature. They are man made devices which “put the wrong rider on” and then they are destructive machines that don’t belong in the eastern slopes. I have nothing against responsible riders who stay on the trails. But lately I’ve seen more selfish riders than responsible ones. WAy I see it is either get your user group to grow up and ride responsibly or else your all Gona get banned. It’s tottaly up to you. Not my decision. You guys need to come up with some kind of plan to save your recreation. Your not doing any good asking me if we should shut down hunting because of a few poachers. I would rather see a deer poached and eaten than some jack ax tearing up the land on an atv. BTW I own an atv and use it occasionally to recover game. But I can get by without it if need be.
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  #44  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
I would rather see a deer poached and eaten than some jack ax tearing up the land on an atv.
I see. Not all see it that way. Who is right? Is poaching hurting nature? You care more about one type of conservation than another - why don't you apply your logic to all types of conservation?

Frankly I don't care what your response is, I'm just laughing at your cherry-picking logic.
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  #45  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
I see. Not all see it that way. Who is right? Is poaching hurting nature? You care more about one type of conservation than another - why don't you apply your logic to all types of conservation?

Frankly I don't care what your response is, I'm just laughing at your cherry-picking logic.
You won’t be laughing when you have no place to ride!
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  #46  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
You won’t be laughing when you have no place to ride!
As you will not be when you cannot hunt.
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  #47  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
It's good to see a voice of reason among the call for unfettered use cause, "Gosh darn it, son, it's my right".

Hunters and anglers USED to be the first who promoted conservation. Reading many of the comments and threads on here, I'm not so sure that is the case any more.
As the OP, I hope it doesn't come across like this for myself. I'd like to see enforcement of the existing conservation laws as much as possible, and for damaging influences to be better managed, whether that be industry, OHV, Feral horses, etc.

I just hate the close it down and turn it into a park reaction.
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  #48  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:15 AM
Walleyedude Walleyedude is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
It’s not about breaking the law son. It’s about destroying habitat and nature. ATVs are not apart of nature. They are man made devices which “put the wrong rider on” and then they are destructive machines that don’t belong in the eastern slopes. I have nothing against responsible riders who stay on the trails. But lately I’ve seen more selfish riders than responsible ones. WAy I see it is either get your user group to grow up and ride responsibly or else your all Gona get banned. It’s tottaly up to you. Not my decision. You guys need to come up with some kind of plan to save your recreation. Your not doing any good asking me if we should shut down hunting because of a few poachers. I would rather see a deer poached and eaten than some jack ax tearing up the land on an atv. BTW I own an atv and use it occasionally to recover game. But I can get by without it if need be.
You do realize that you can substitute GUN for OHV in that sentence right? You do realize that there are many out there doing that exact thing at this moment, right? This kind of "logic" boggles my mind, and it's not a joke, it's a major problem in today's world.

As does the selective application of the term conservation to fit each person's personal agenda. Poaching wildlife is OK, because it's better than OHVs causing erosion. Huh??????

I'll be the first one to agree that the OHV community needs to get it's act together and educate and self regulate, but unfortunately, it is NOT up to us,
we don't have the power to enforce the laws, and that is the single most critical factor in having responsible and sustainable OHV use. So simple, but unfortunately, so is banning things, and banning things is "free". Banning things also works better when combined with selective logic and conservation a la carte...
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  #49  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:22 AM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
This is on the edge of K country. Have a look.

released this morning


http://www.rmoutlook.com/article/Min...ndary-20171207
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  #50  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:31 AM
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HoytCRX32 HoytCRX32 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
"The fear is remains left behind by hunters could draw carnivores, such as bears and wolves, into residential neighbouthoods"

BEARS in Canmore residential neighborhoods???!!!! Say it ain't so.....damn bowhunters
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  #51  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
This is on the edge of K country. Have a look.
Thanks,

I don't think that is what Don is talking about. This Larch Island incident is new.

Previous Land use planning groups have called for eliminating hunting in other areas of the Bow Corridor, such as behind Harvey Heights.

Maybe Don knows of other areas being targeted for hunting closures.
Would be good to know.
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  #52  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:55 AM
normstad normstad is offline
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
One more question - if you support an OHV ban because of a few lawbreakers, would you support a hunting ban because of a few lawbreakers? Thoughts?
The problem is that although poachers impact a population, they usually do it one critter at a time. OHVs impact a large amount of certainly fisheries, both through illegal driving through watersheds, but also siltation by running through sensitive areas.

You know it is a reality.
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  #53  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:46 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
The problem is that although poachers impact a population, they usually do it one critter at a time. OHVs impact a large amount of certainly fisheries, both through illegal driving through watersheds, but also siltation by running through sensitive areas.

You know it is a reality.
You know that the vast majority of OHV use is a miniscule post-resource extraction activity, utilizing resource extraction related infrastructure / roadways. You blow the impact of OHV waaaay out of proportion, and your frustrations should really be directed elsewhere.
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  #54  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:28 AM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
One small example lol. I can show you ruts four feet deep on 45% grade that are caused by dirt bikers. These run directly down to the old man river carrying sediment that is know to be harmful to spawning fish. Do you support this kind of activity?
I'd like to see a photo of that if you can show it.
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  #55  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:31 AM
normstad normstad is offline
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You know that the vast majority of OHV use is a miniscule post-resource extraction activity, utilizing resource extraction related infrastructure / roadways. You blow the impact of OHV waaaay out of proportion, and your frustrations should really be directed elsewhere.
You really don't want me to start posting pictures of OHV activities that produces all the concern do you? Because I can go on days doing that, and it will only reinforce that the problem is real, and not imaginary.

Are we conservationists or not? Do we care about the best minimal impact on sensitive areas or not?

The answers to those questions will determine our perspective. However, the answer to those questions will also have other authorities determine what happens. It's best to work with them, rather than use the "the heck with them, we are right" perspective.
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
You really don't want me to start posting pictures of OHV activities that produces all the concern do you? Because I can go on days doing that, and it will only reinforce that the problem is real, and not imaginary.

Are we conservationists or not? Do we care about the best minimal impact on sensitive areas or not?

The answers to those questions will determine our perspective. However, the answer to those questions will also have other authorities determine what happens. It's best to work with them, rather than use the "the heck with them, we are right" perspective.
So you and the DP's are a part of the problem too, as you must be riding OHV's to get back into the areas to take pictures of these areas.
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:04 PM
Masterchief Masterchief is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
One small example lol. I can show you ruts four feet deep on 45% grade that are caused by dirt bikers. These run directly down to the old man river carrying sediment that is know to be harmful to spawning fish. Do you support this kind of activity?
wow... you are complaining about a dirt bike track that creates sediment that flows into the river, and you are minimizing the 400 sq km area that I posted that was devastated by industry and calling it 'one small example' please post a pic of the dirt bike track... I need a good laugh today. Have you ever actually been by a river in the spring and seen the runoff? or do you just close your eyes because it's mother nature at work?
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  #58  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:57 PM
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just another horse guy that's pizzed off that quads can access a minimal amount of the back country (compared to what atvs are allowed to access) that should be only for him and his horse buddies.
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  #59  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:48 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
You really don't want me to start posting pictures of OHV activities that produces all the concern do you? Because I can go on days doing that, and it will only reinforce that the problem is real, and not imaginary.

Are we conservationists or not? Do we care about the best minimal impact on sensitive areas or not?

The answers to those questions will determine our perspective. However, the answer to those questions will also have other authorities determine what happens. It's best to work with them, rather than use the "the heck with them, we are right" perspective.
You can post as many pictures as you want. The people here with common sense know that you are simply sensationalizing, similar to the picture of the dead refugee child on a beach and claiming the west is responsible.
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  #60  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:09 PM
normstad normstad is offline
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Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
So you and the DP's are a part of the problem too, as you must be riding OHV's to get back into the areas to take pictures of these areas.
What the heck is a DP??

And no, one must NOT be riding an OHV to get back there. Walking has worked for millions of years. Riding horses for thousand of years. How can our perspective be so skewed that the only way on thinks one can traverse wilderness is by motor?
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