Looking to buy an E collars

caddisman · #1 08-22-2019, 08:54 AM

I am looking to buy an e collar and I am new to owning a gun dog. So many choices out there right now.
I am thinking that the beeper options is nice to find a dog that is pointing that you may not be able to see.
Most of the place I hunt the visibility is pretty good but I have always been on foot with my partners and we have never had a dog.

I have Wirehaired Pointing Griffon that is 5 months old and strong willed, knows the commands but at times will not come.

Do I really need the most expensive $500 kind? I realize that if the pup is well trained you shouldn't but.

What are hunters using and why?

elkhunter11 · #2 08-22-2019, 09:02 AM

I have been using the Dogtra 2500 for over three years, and it has been excellent. The beeper is a nice feature to locate your dog in heavy cover, and the beep itself , can be used as a recall on windy days, where it is hard to hear very far. My collar is used every day , as I run my dog every day in the field, and battery life has been excellent.

Dave P · #3 08-22-2019, 09:20 AM

Also have the Dogtra 2500. Nothing negative to say about it at all.

Wish it had GPS, but that is really more just for my own curiosity to see how many km the pup logs.

M.C. Gusto · #4 08-22-2019, 09:20 AM

I’ve got a bunch of collars at home, some 20 years old. They have all needed batteries and some repair over the years. I have not found that one manufacturer is better than another as far as reliability goes. One company though does stand way above the other in customer service and warranty l, that is Sportdog and that is who I recommend.

M.C. Gusto · #5 08-22-2019, 09:23 AM

I did briefly own a gps collar and it was a real game changer. If you can afford one check them out.

colvert · #6 08-22-2019, 09:25 AM

I would recommend a tone to be used as a recall, it's right there near the dog's ears and works wonderfully when your dog is a bit too far, much better than a whistle! I believe a beeper should not be used much as it can damage your dog's hearing and if he is say 80m away in the bush, you won't hear the beeping anyway...
When my Brittany was young, I used the tone button quite a bit to control his range. I used a DT E-collar.

elkhunter11 · #7 08-22-2019, 09:31 AM

I do not leave the beeper turned on all of the time, I only use it to locate, and recall.

alacringa · #8 08-22-2019, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddisman

I have Wirehaired Pointing Griffon that is 5 months old and strong willed, knows the commands but at times will not come.

Do I really need the most expensive $500 kind? I realize that if the pup is well trained you shouldn't but.

What are hunters using and why?

Sounds like you might have a Crossiron pup? If so, congrats. I got to watch a few of them last weekend and their field work was amazing.

For basic training, the basic models will work fine. It really comes down to which features you would prefer to have. You can really get them as minimal or as fancy as you like. I will back those who have suggested Sportdog as a manufacturer. They make some pretty good (and durable) systems.

I've used a basic model for the last 4 years, but as I now have 2 dogs (one still too small for a collar) I'm having to consider getting a 2-dog system with GPS, which is going to push my budget a bit.

sns2 · #9 08-22-2019, 04:31 PM

If you've got one of Ron's dogs, good on ya, you lucky bugger!!! Great dogs and a great guy.

You can take it to the bank that pup has the right stuff, now it's up to you.

As for e-collar, I watched a buddy's top of the line Garmin, that I used to own, come close to frying his little dog on a water retrieve. For some unexplained reason the bark limiter started going berserk on the poor dog. It was troubling. The owner disabled that feature tootsweet.

I am running a Sportdog 1825 which has been very good, fits in the hand nicely, and is straightforward in its operation. I think they are all pretty good. I have purchased Dogtra electronics for my launchers, and they seem quite robust too.

I wouldn't hesitate to go with Dogtra either. The 1900s is highly regarded, and cheaper than the 2500, but does not have that beeper. I know some guys have it, and like it, as it is useful for locating your dog, but it drives me up the wall when guys leave them on at pheasant releases. I hunt with a fellow who uses one, but thankfully he doesn't leave it on, but uses it to locate his dang good dog who is often locked up solid on point.

Honestly, this is kinda like a Ford vs Dodge vs GM debate. Most work great. Get the one that is priced best, but make sure it has a mile range.

sns2 · #10 08-22-2019, 04:37 PM

Now post pics of that dog!!!

Fowl91 · #11 08-22-2019, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

If you've got one of Ron's dogs, good on ya, you lucky bugger!!! Great dogs and a great guy.

You can take it to the bank that pup has the right stuff, now it's up to you.

As for e-collar, I watched a buddy's top of the line Garmin, that I used to own, come close to frying his little dog on a water retrieve. For some unexplained reason the bark limiter started going berserk on the poor dog. It was troubling. The owner disabled that feature tootsweet.

I am running a Sportdog 1825 which has been very good, fits in the hand nicely, and is straightforward in its operation. I think they are all pretty good. I have purchased Dogtra electronics for my launchers, and they seem quite robust too.

I wouldn't hesitate to go with Dogtra either. The 1900s is highly regarded, and cheaper than the 2500, but does not have that beeper. I know some guys have it, and like it, as it is useful for locating your dog, but it drives me up the wall when guys leave them on at pheasant releases. I hunt with a fellow who uses one, but thankfully he doesn't leave it on, but uses it to locate his dang good dog who is often locked up solid on point.

Honestly, this is kinda like a Ford vs Dodge vs GM debate. Most work great. Get the one that is priced best, but make sure it has a mile range.

I too am using the Sportdog 1825. Our hound is really strong willed and often would not come as well. After using the tone feature with some positive incentive she learned to associate the tone with good vibes. Has been a very reliable unit to say the least.

I think I payed around $300 for it a few months ago.

sns2 · #12 08-22-2019, 11:30 PM

This is an exceptional deal...

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/29095...ep-dog-trainer

elkhunter11 · #13 08-23-2019, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

This is an exceptional deal...

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/29095...ep-dog-trainer

Hard to beat that deal.

caddisman · #14 08-23-2019, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

Now post pics of that dog!!!

It has been ages since I posted a pic. Can't remember how. I will try to figure it out.
I tried to upload other pics but they seem to large

caddisman · #15 08-23-2019, 08:45 AM

I will try some more pics, not sure about a video

caddisman · #16 08-23-2019, 08:51 AM

Pic number 3

elkhunter11 · #17 08-23-2019, 09:06 AM

Great looking pup.

WinefredCommander · #18 08-23-2019, 09:47 AM

Dogtra Pathfinder. Hard to beat. GPS/Ecollar/Efence/Google maps on your smart phone. And has a very high range (they advertise 9miles) and can have multiple dogs on one app.

Buy once. You'll be pleased!

sns2 · #19 08-23-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddisman

Pic number 3

That pup looks like he won the 6/49 getting himself in a good home. A buddy and I were talking yesterday. When you get a pup from great bloodlines, as you did, there are only two factors that determine whether you will hunt with great sense of pride and a smile on your face or be blowing on your whistle and yelling like a buffoon at a release site.

Those two factors are...

1) A willingness to seek out all the knowledge you can get your hands on. This can come from videos, books, gundog forums, training sessions, but most importantly people who have "been there and done that". No substitutes for successful experience. No one reads or studies more voraciously than I do. I grew up with pointing dogs and had dang good ones too. Got the blue ribbons to prove it. However, after moving over to labs last year after getting burned on a "finished" GWP, I had to start all over. I am doing my best to follow the DVD training program of arguably the world's top lab trainer, but last night I spent time with Pixel Shooter who has trained many incredible dogs. I learn more with him in one evening, doing three or four different drills/scenarios than I do in watching 10 hours of video. Why? Every dog is individual, and guys with experience can look at what you and your dog are doing, diagnose issues, show you how to correct them, and give you things to work on until the next time you meet.

Join Navhda and seek out a mentor. Doesn't have to be an every night affair, but having the ability to get together from time to time is invaluable.

Let me also mention that there are bird-dog trainers who will work with you by the session. It looks like you live in Southern Alberta, so you have easy access to at least three really great trainers including our own WWBirds who also happens to own a gamebird shooting preserve. What an incredible opportunity right at your finger tips.

2) Time spent training with your dog. If you want a real bird-dog there are no substitutes for time in the field and birds. There just ain't. Your doctor didn't go to school for three months, nor do good bird-dogs just happen by random walks in a field.

All the best on a great journey with that beautiful pup, Caddisman!

wwbirds · #20 08-23-2019, 12:36 PM

teach train and then and only then test. If a 5 month old puppy is not solid on recall a collar is the last thing you need.
Train the dog with a check cord while you are still the most important thing in the dogs life that "come" or "heel" or "here" is not optional when you say it. check cord leads him to the right decision every time. calling him without a method of leading him to the right decision teaches a dog that obedience is optional. By one year they will have so many other things that are more interesting than you obedience will go downhill fast. this is the optimum time to establish that bond and establish obedience.

Cant teach anything except aversion training with a collar so the pup needs to be trained with a variety of distractions to reinforce "come" or whatever you are using for recall.

aulrich · #21 08-23-2019, 01:37 PM

5 months seems young , the pup is just starting to develop independence. There is a line you need to tread especially with a young pointing dog , you need solid recall but you also need the dog (and yourself) comfortable with being away from you. The danger of over working recall early is you run the risk of hacking your dogs working range down.

Realistically it's easier to fix a dog that runs too big than a dog that does not leave your side.

Are you planning on following any training system.

Also if your new to Versatile dogs I would recommend you read

https://www.amazon.ca/HOW-HELP-DOGS-...gateway&sr=8-1

The basic premise is that in the first year you develop the in born ability of the dog, then after that year you mold it with formal bird dog training.

sns2 · #22 08-23-2019, 02:29 PM

He's gonna need a collar eventually, so no reason not to look for one now. As has been said, and wisely so, there is a need to know how and why to use an e-collar. Heed the advice given in other threads.

Good call on that book, Aulrich.

aulrich · #23 08-23-2019, 03:11 PM

Actually I agree, i got lazy Friday Malaria has me.

I had skipped saying that even if you don't use it right away getting the dog use to the collar or even better getting your dog associating the collar with fun things will set you up properly when it's time to use it.

Stick with the big names , 3/4 of a mile range at least , like walkie talkies those published ranges are optimistic or require just the right conditions.

caddisman · #24 08-26-2019, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sns2

That pup looks like he won the 6/49 getting himself in a good home. A buddy and I were talking yesterday. When you get a pup from great bloodlines, as you did, there are only two factors that determine whether you will hunt with great sense of pride and a smile on your face or be blowing on your whistle and yelling like a buffoon at a release site.

Those two factors are...

1) A willingness to seek out all the knowledge you can get your hands on. This can come from videos, books, gundog forums, training sessions, but most importantly people who have "been there and done that". No substitutes for successful experience. No one reads or studies more voraciously than I do. I grew up with pointing dogs and had dang good ones too. Got the blue ribbons to prove it. However, after moving over to labs last year after getting burned on a "finished" GWP, I had to start all over. I am doing my best to follow the DVD training program of arguably the world's top lab trainer, but last night I spent time with Pixel Shooter who has trained many incredible dogs. I learn more with him in one evening, doing three or four different drills/scenarios than I do in watching 10 hours of video. Why? Every dog is individual, and guys with experience can look at what you and your dog are doing, diagnose issues, show you how to correct them, and give you things to work on until the next time you meet.

Join Navhda and seek out a mentor. Doesn't have to be an every night affair, but having the ability to get together from time to time is invaluable.

Let me also mention that there are bird-dog trainers who will work with you by the session. It looks like you live in Southern Alberta, so you have easy access to at least three really great trainers including our own WWBirds who also happens to own a gamebird shooting preserve. What an incredible opportunity right at your finger tips.

2) Time spent training with your dog. If you want a real bird-dog there are no substitutes for time in the field and birds. There just ain't. Your doctor didn't go to school for three months, nor do good bird-dogs just happen by random walks in a field.

All the best on a great journey with that beautiful pup, Caddisman!

It has been a journey for sure just having a puppy and trying to learn all about that. when to push and how much. The gun introduction has been going way better than expected. Started with cap guns in the backyard while playing. took her out shooting at targets with the 22. Then trowing clays and the 410. This week I introduced a 28 gauge after the 410 and no flinching or a care in the world. Next week I hope to introduce a 20 gauge and hopefully buying some chuckars. Need to WWbirds to see if I can buy some.
Does anyone do training where you don't have to leave the pup for a week or a month, don't think I could bear a month without her.

caddisman · #25 08-26-2019, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

teach train and then and only then test. If a 5 month old puppy is not solid on recall a collar is the last thing you need.
Train the dog with a check cord while you are still the most important thing in the dogs life that "come" or "heel" or "here" is not optional when you say it. check cord leads him to the right decision every time. calling him without a method of leading him to the right decision teaches a dog that obedience is optional. By one year they will have so many other things that are more interesting than you obedience will go downhill fast. this is the optimum time to establish that bond and establish obedience.

Cant teach anything except aversion training with a collar so the pup needs to be trained with a variety of distractions to reinforce "come" or whatever you are using for recall.

That sounds like sound advice. She sure doesn't come sometimes and I don't want to play the chase game.

elkhunter11 · #26 08-26-2019, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddisman

It has been a journey for sure just having a puppy and trying to learn all about that. when to push and how much. The gun introduction has been going way better than expected. Started with cap guns in the backyard while playing. took her out shooting at targets with the 22. Then trowing clays and the 410. This week I introduced a 28 gauge after the 410 and no flinching or a care in the world. Next week I hope to introduce a 20 gauge and hopefully buying some chuckars. Need to WWbirds to see if I can buy some.
Does anyone do training where you don't have to leave the pup for a week or a month, don't think I could bear a month without her.

I don't know where you live, but I do know of a trainer that does evaluations and individual training sessions near Delburne. One session really helped me get past a sticking point in forced fetch .If you don't want to leave your dog with a trainer, join a NAVHDA chapter for 2020. There are indoor training sessions in winter, an then outdoor training starting in spring. The experienced trainers can help you with the basics, and you can practise on your own between training days. As well, you may meet people living close to you, that you can train with outside of club training days.

caddisman · #27 08-26-2019, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aulrich

Actually I agree, i got lazy Friday Malaria has me.

I had skipped saying that even if you don't use it right away getting the dog use to the collar or even better getting your dog associating the collar with fun things will set you up properly when it's time to use it.

Stick with the big names , 3/4 of a mile range at least , like walkie talkies those published ranges are optimistic or require just the right conditions.

I will have to do some reading for sure and get that book. I would like her to range but hopefully not to far. I have hunting with a friends 2 WHP that go out 300 - 400 ydrs and scare things up and then point later as they land after that. I don't think he trained them much. Another friends dog goes out about 50- 100 ydrs, I seem to like that better.

Snm · #28 08-26-2019, 10:08 AM

I use a sport dog waterfowl edition collar. nothing fancy and has 7 settings with around 2000 feet range. last a long time, probably a whole weekend of hunting and still more. My wpg is pretty sensitive so the lowest setting always works unless birds are around then i have to turn it up a bit. I contemplated getting a better quality e collar but after this season ill see if i am still interested. I dont have the issues of him running off and not coming back so i don't see the benefit. WPG's are usually close working dogs.

If you are having troubles with your pup coming to you when recalled you could change the command used in case there is a negative association with your current command. My pup had been sent for starting training and the trainer changed the recall command and with 3 months training on it seems to have helped. Though at his 5 month mark he was still all about exploring and seeing what everything was and smelling them.

caddisman · #29 08-26-2019, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snm

I use a sport dog waterfowl edition collar. nothing fancy and has 7 settings with around 2000 feet range. last a long time, probably a whole weekend of hunting and still more. My wpg is pretty sensitive so the lowest setting always works unless birds are around then i have to turn it up a bit. I contemplated getting a better quality e collar but after this season ill see if i am still interested. I dont have the issues of him running off and not coming back so i don't see the benefit. WPG's are usually close working dogs.

If you are having troubles with your pup coming to you when recalled you could change the command used in case there is a negative association with your current command. My pup had been sent for starting training and the trainer changed the recall command and with 3 months training on it seems to have helped. Though at his 5 month mark he was still all about exploring and seeing what everything was and smelling them.

Where dio you send your dog for training and how long was it gone for?

sns2 · #30 08-26-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddisman

It has been a journey for sure just having a puppy and trying to learn all about that. when to push and how much. The gun introduction has been going way better than expected. Started with cap guns in the backyard while playing. took her out shooting at targets with the 22. Then trowing clays and the 410. This week I introduced a 28 gauge after the 410 and no flinching or a care in the world. Next week I hope to introduce a 20 gauge and hopefully buying some chuckars. Need to WWbirds to see if I can buy some.
Does anyone do training where you don't have to leave the pup for a week or a month, don't think I could bear a month without her.

You don't need to send her anywhere for any type of training this year. Simple obedience and house manners (recall, sit, stay, heel). This year is about fun for you and your pup while putting her on lots of birds. Minimal expectations while hunting.

I'd contact WWBirds and ask him if you can buy birds, and if you can pay him to spend an hour with you and your pup to just chat about what you should be doing this fall, and proper introduction to live birds.

Here is a link to his website...

http://www.whitewolfbirds.com/fee_structure.htm