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  #31  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:17 AM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
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Fordtruckin,

I agree that the 2 speed transmission is not a deal breaker, and I am glad you understand the advantage of the articulating rear rail.

The big problem for us recreational users is that a sled will sit for weeks at a time. It will be out in the cold, with a small battery with little reserve capacity due to the small size.

Electric start is the norm these days, especially with us older guys. If the Sled does not have a pull start, and I do not believe that the 900 Ace does, then its a common experience to have a dead battery or worse, a weak battery that then fails.

For some reason, Arctic Cat is the leader in the solution with a Capacitor Discharge Ignition that does not need a battery. The CDI works with you pulling the starter cord, and winding up a magneto at the same time it turns over the engine. The EFI Fuel pump gets a charge, and the thing starts up and then uses its own power to run the fuel pump for the EFI.
Very Very cool, but apparently discontinued by Arctic Cat.

For the rest of us with no rope start, all that you can do is try and keep a charger on the battery for the long periods between use, and carry one of the new Lithium booster packs with you in case of trouble.

For ice fishing, the secret is not just getting us out there, its getting us back. That is why a rope start backup is so important.

Drewski
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  #32  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:57 AM
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fordtruckin fordtruckin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck View Post
Fordtruckin,

I agree that the 2 speed transmission is not a deal breaker, and I am glad you understand the advantage of the articulating rear rail.

The big problem for us recreational users is that a sled will sit for weeks at a time. It will be out in the cold, with a small battery with little reserve capacity due to the small size.

Electric start is the norm these days, especially with us older guys. If the Sled does not have a pull start, and I do not believe that the 900 Ace does, then its a common experience to have a dead battery or worse, a weak battery that then fails.

For some reason, Arctic Cat is the leader in the solution with a Capacitor Discharge Ignition that does not need a battery. The CDI works with you pulling the starter cord, and winding up a magneto at the same time it turns over the engine. The EFI Fuel pump gets a charge, and the thing starts up and then uses its own power to run the fuel pump for the EFI.
Very Very cool, but apparently discontinued by Arctic Cat.

For the rest of us with no rope start, all that you can do is try and keep a charger on the battery for the long periods between use, and carry one of the new Lithium booster packs with you in case of trouble.

For ice fishing, the secret is not just getting us out there, its getting us back. That is why a rope start backup is so important.

Drewski
Skidoo has the shot start that sounds similar to what your mentioning on the arctic cat but again it’s a mountain sled 2 stroke feature. Not sure why they spend so much on the powder sleds other than they must make the most money off them.

I read a good review on the VK about how it hasn’t really changed in 30 years and compares it to mountain riders who ditch a sled every year for lighter weight more power or some other advancement or a trail rider that ditches a sled for a new shock package etc. They did hit the nail on the head there as most utility sleds are held on too. Again I can’t remember the last time I saw a used utility sled for sale that wasn’t 15+ years old. It just doesn’t happen that often as they are tools not toys.

I’ve also read that you can pull an ACE over with the clutches like you do if the pull start cord breaks but since I don’t have one I obviously don’t know for certain. There’s a few on AO with the ACE engines and they have said they haven’t had any issues with starting in the cold. At dootalk most guys say the 900 starts easier in the cold weather than the 600... again not sure why. I’ve also seen some guys replace the battery for one with a hair more capacity just in case. I suppose a battery tender would work if you have electricity near where you park it on the off days. Again some will some won’t...

I’m not saying the 550 fan is worse than an ACE or the ACE worse than the 550, just different strokes for different folks. Personally I’d take a chance on the ACE and bring a battery boost pack for back up. Many won’t want to, again nothing wrong with that just a different mindset and different needs. Where I would use the sled if on the odd chance it broke down I either have cell service or there are so many sleds out I could flag someone down, worst case I’m walking on snow shoes for a mile or two to a road.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:57 PM
ehrgeiz ehrgeiz is offline
 
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Just resurrecting this thread. I'm thinking about buying a machine, and have 0 experience with them. I'm finding it hard to interpret what would suit me.

I'd like to use a machine for ice fishing, and towing the kids around on a sled across the lake when the fishing is slow. I'd like something that could get me through the mountain trails in the Bighorn Backcountry also maybe give that Golden Triangle a run too. I have no appetite for risky use such as high-marking or boondocking in random sledding areas. I'm not too fond of the 2 stroke smell so I think I'd like a 4 stroke, but I understand that comes with a weight penalty.

Anyhow from what I've researched I think I might be happy with a late mode Yamaha Nytro XTX, but looking to see if anyone has experience and thinks that's a poor choice.

Should say too that I'm looking to spend under $5k.

Last edited by ehrgeiz; 02-12-2020 at 03:05 PM.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:37 PM
Cold lake guy Cold lake guy is offline
 
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2009 skandic wt 550fan, my go to sled for the last 5 years never misses a beat and has both electric and pull start. I’ve never had an issue with the electric start battery wise, I’d never own a sled with out pull start again. Especially when I usually ice fish alone, I had a four stroke before....dead battery and your screwed might as well set it on fire and send help smoke signals.
In my opinion 2 strokes are easier to maintain fill the fuel and oil and go.... no expensive filters or oil. Especially if they tend to sit for a few weeks at a time.
And they start at -40 no problem, Yamaha 4 strokes are useless below -15
The 20 inch wide track floats over flood water and ruts and the fan engine needs even less maintenance than a liquid cooled.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:08 PM
prinny53 prinny53 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold lake guy View Post
2009 skandic wt 550fan, my go to sled for the last 5 years never misses a beat and has both electric and pull start. I’ve never had an issue with the electric start battery wise, I’d never own a sled with out pull start again. Especially when I usually ice fish alone, I had a four stroke before....dead battery and your screwed might as well set it on fire and send help smoke signals.
In my opinion 2 strokes are easier to maintain fill the fuel and oil and go.... no expensive filters or oil. Especially if they tend to sit for a few weeks at a time.
And they start at -40 no problem, Yamaha 4 strokes are useless below -15
The 20 inch wide track floats over flood water and ruts and the fan engine needs even less maintenance than a liquid cooled.
I have a 2008 Skandic, same model. It has never let me down in the 7 years I have owned it. I'm not small nor are my friends and it fits 2 easy with small kid in between, along with towing a sled behind. I've even had two guys on it, 2 tow behind sleds, one with all our gear, one with another big dude in it. Don't really do much to it other then the odd spark plug change and grease the fittings that need it in the spring.

The only issue I have with it now is you can't find a tarp for hauling, they have discontinued that size. Thankfully they don't put the calcium chloride on the roads anymore.........
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  #36  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:14 PM
ehrgeiz ehrgeiz is offline
 
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These are worthy considerations, I suppose a guy can always carry a charge pack to address the lack of pull start. Temp drop isn’t so much an issue for me as anything beyond -15 I’m probably not heading out anyway.

Still, wouldn’t be opposed to a Skandic, but checking power ratings, it’s 57hp vs the Nytro’s 150hp. That’s a lot of extra go. Doesn’t the Skandic feel under powered?

Track width is a variable I hadn’t looked at. It seemed length is what most reference for floatation. I note the util sleds seem to be 20” and the Nytro is 15”. Not sure what properties change with the 5” difference?

Appreciate the info and suggestions!
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:10 AM
Cold lake guy Cold lake guy is offline
 
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Do not buy a nytro they are cheap for a reason, I had one.....guy I bought it from paid 15k I paid 7k with only 1000km on it. Great deal I thought, they run great that’s true. BUT they have some big design flaws like the exhaust is above the track and it exposed so the snow hits the exhaust melts and forms huge amounts of ice in the tunnel. Doubles the weight of the sled in a couple of hours of riding and starts to rub the track, nose is extremely heavy so let off the gas and it dives into powder, your feet get wet from melting snow off the engine, and if you do get stuck they are so heavy your screwed if your alone. And they like to go fast so they are not a good tow sled. And like I said before they will not start in cold weather even if only sitting for a few hours in the wind, oil filters are very expensive. Google all these issues and you will find fix kits but it’s just not a good design
Skandic 550 will go 80km pulling all my gear which is plenty fast, 2 speed trans I rarely use 2nd because it’s fast enough.
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:52 AM
ehrgeiz ehrgeiz is offline
 
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Many thanks for the intel on the Yamaha. I had read about those issues, but didn't really understand how it might impact me. I definitely hadn't considered that the weight of the sled would grow with the icing from the exhaust, but that seems obvious now. I was also curious about how the power delivery was on these mountain sleds, it sounds like they're hard to drive slow and you kinda need to wring 'em out to enjoy their handling properties. Given I ride a TW200 in the summer I suspect I'm not actually going to be a speed demon on a snowmobile, but it sure sounds nice to have an extra 100hp if it can be moderated with throttle input. Sounds like that might not be the case.

It's tough sledding trying to figure what to go with, I might just have to jump into the market somewhere and figure out first hand what I actually want. Could the Skandic handle some mountain trail work or deep powder? Studying reviews of the Skandic I see criticism for the 20" track being difficult to maneuver and fuel economy. I'm also still a bit off about the 2 stroke. It is convenient to have one less thing to change oil on, but I can sometimes smell those 2 stroke sleds a few hundred meters away when ice fishing. It's not particularly enjoyable and I'd imagine it's real bad at idle.

Outside of the Nytro, any other 4 strokes you'd suggest that don't have adverse properties you described?

Thanks again for your time and input, greatly appreciated.
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  #39  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:40 AM
RockyMountainMusic RockyMountainMusic is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrgeiz View Post
Many thanks for the intel on the Yamaha. I had read about those issues, but didn't really understand how it might impact me. I definitely hadn't considered that the weight of the sled would grow with the icing from the exhaust, but that seems obvious now. I was also curious about how the power delivery was on these mountain sleds, it sounds like they're hard to drive slow and you kinda need to wring 'em out to enjoy their handling properties. Given I ride a TW200 in the summer I suspect I'm not actually going to be a speed demon on a snowmobile, but it sure sounds nice to have an extra 100hp if it can be moderated with throttle input. Sounds like that might not be the case.

It's tough sledding trying to figure what to go with, I might just have to jump into the market somewhere and figure out first hand what I actually want. Could the Skandic handle some mountain trail work or deep powder? Studying reviews of the Skandic I see criticism for the 20" track being difficult to maneuver and fuel economy. I'm also still a bit off about the 2 stroke. It is convenient to have one less thing to change oil on, but I can sometimes smell those 2 stroke sleds a few hundred meters away when ice fishing. It's not particularly enjoyable and I'd imagine it's real bad at idle.

Outside of the Nytro, any other 4 strokes you'd suggest that don't have adverse properties you described?

Thanks again for your time and input, greatly appreciated.
IMO you can not go wrong with the skandic, between myself and a couple trapping buddies I have tried lots of machines. I used the 550F 2 stroke which is a great skidoo but i'm not a fan of the stinky smoke especially on the trapline and fuel econ sucks and having to need oil with you but they are reliable, I owned a 600 ACE for 10 years with 20 WT and they can handle mountain trail work and deep powder no problem and the fuel mileage is great, ya they can be a bit tippy especially if someone comes down your trail on a quad in mid winter but you can also change the stance of the skies and put skins on to help that. But I must say I recently purchased a new 2020 skandic SWT with the 900 Ace and omg I love it, fuel economy great, torque great, powder or breaking trail a breeze and its sooo quiet and smooth. The SWT is way less tippy than the 20 WT what a difference. I know some guys worry about the 4 stroke starting in extreme cold I was one of them, I bought one of those booster packs from CT just to have in case and in 10 years at temps down below -50c with wind I have never not had the skandics start for me yet. They are a lot of money and it is nice if you can find a few with the machines your thinking of to try first but I know if I needed a sled again it would be the 900 ace SWT. I deal with Riderz in Edson and they have been great to deal with so far, my last one was Stojans in GP and won't be back there.
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  #40  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:45 PM
DeanHrehirc DeanHrehirc is offline
 
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We use a skidoo expedition 600, great little sled, not the lightest by any means. Comes with reverse as well as an articulating track. Works really well. 2 adults and a 6ft toboggan loaded and it pulls fairly well. it does work a bit harder if in deep snow. We were on Carson lake family day weekend and it worked hard in 18 inches of snow with 3 to 4 inches of flood water/ slush. You may want to go with the 900 if you are carry a significant amount of weight. It works well for what we need, and it beats getting the trucks stuck out on the lake.
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