Archery Mule Deer Draw for 2013 Season?

[jryley]

Potty i dont understand how you figure if having every season on a draw system for a specific species wont help anything? Again, if there are even .5% fewer animals harvested in an area that is seeing an overall drop in numbers, how can you say it wont help?

Notice how the discussion becomes convoluted with the only arguement being "show me hard statistical data". Common sense needs to factor in at some point fellas and common sense says that putting a species on a draw system across the board will limit the number of animals harvested in any given season. If your only rebuttle is "they should further cut back the rifle allocations", then i agree!!! Cut em back to absolute minimums!!! BUT, do that along with every other season being put on draw. Every little bit will help.

[Dan Boone]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

So putting bow on draw is not going to help what your seeing. Fighting to reduce antlerless tags, and landowner tags, will get the results your looking for and quicker, than a bow draw.

We hunt that zone too.

I don't care one way or the other with bow mule deer going on draw.
I would like to see a separation of seasons that no one seems to agree with.
But I'm not arguing that point anymore!

What's your thoughts on 358 in regards to mule numbers?

[eggo]

I am so tired bow hunters that there better their never part of the problem. Hello there is no problems and if there is the rifle hunters are to blame. Everyone and everything but them. Iam a better hunter because I hunt with bow.I need more because I am a bow hunter. I have no need to even consider another point of view.

[eggo]

Done

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by jryley

Youre contradicting your own arguement here fisher. Why do you think so few bow hunters are harvesting animals in 232? Its quit simply
Because there are sonfew animals. There quit literally nothing to shoot. So i ask you again....if you not taking a mule with your bow for a couple seasons, and keeping rifle mule on draw means a few more quality animals a few years down the road is that not in turn a victory for you? Or are you so self entitled you still view it as a rifle only problem? Y not
Just put the opportunity for all weapons on a draw system as part o the management plan along with the other plans to
Manage the resource. Youre a prime example of the guy holding a bow that doesnt feel he is part of problem. Its sad really.

I'm not contradicting anything. What I'm having difficulty with is the fact that you feel that reducing opportunity for a group that is having such a minute impact on harvest numbers is going to make a significant difference. If you want to make a meaningful difference in deer numbers, the number of tags needs to be decreased across the board, not just for bow hunters. You need to reduce antlerless, rifle mulie, landowner, and outfitter tags.

I understand what you are saying about how saving .5% of the deer will help, but what about the 95% of deer that are being killed by the groups I mentioned above? Like Potty mentioned earlier, you can't fix a leaky pipe without finding the leak first, and based on the stats, bow hunters do not constitute the leak, in fact, they barely constitute a drip. The efforts are being focused on the wrong group.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

Potty i dont understand how you figure if having every season on a draw system for a specific species wont help anything? Again, if there are even .5% fewer animals harvested in an area that is seeing an overall drop in numbers, how can you say it wont help?

Notice how the discussion becomes convoluted with the only arguement being "show me hard statistical data". Common sense needs to factor in at some point fellas and common sense says that putting a species on a draw system across the board will limit the number of animals harvested in any given season. If your only rebuttle is "they should further cut back the rifle allocations", then i agree!!! Cut em back to absolute minimums!!! BUT, do that along with every other season being put on draw. Every little bit will help.

It all depends on what the data shows, how accurate it was collected and what they are supposedly trying to fix. If it's numbers then, there are way better methods and more serious things to investigate.

Reducing doe, outfitter and landowner tags, is a serious resolution to
strengthening numbers.

Remember this the same people that allowed in recent years...

- Sunday hunting ( which I'm against, but that's a different thread)
- expansion of days ( they added wednesday is some eastern zones)
- opening bow season down south on Sept 1st
- Cwd fiasco
- increasing tag numbers
- having some seasons end mid Dec.

Revert some of those and you'll get that 2-3% your looking for. Bow draw isn't the solution .

[eggo]

Everyone else is to blame not bow hunters were not part of the problem

[jryley]

Ice i think our line of communication got lost.....I agree with you man! What i was trying to convey was that yes, we need to allocate absolute bare bones minimums for rifle, but as well, limit in ever other category that we can. I agree that rifle has a far greater impac on herd numbers than any other category, BUT, much like the average 20 year old does when saving for
Their first down payment on a home, we need pinch every penny we can. If you have lived in sedgewick, you would agree it
Used to be a phenominal wmu for sportsmen. Not only are the muley populations now bone dry, but even the WT populations are abissmal. I
Made the decision many moons ago i would
Not be harvesting a mule of either sex, with my bow or my rifle, until i feel comfortable the herds are strong. I typically only
Pull the trigger on what i consider big deer. This season will be a freezer buck for me. There is a solid 160 WT on my prefered track of land, that i have exclusive access to...he will be
Getting two seasons of a free pass. Im hoping he breeds the hell outta whatever women he can to help rebuild! Maybe, just maybe, the fork horn ive seen the past two years will end up in my
Freezer.

In the end, i think we actually are on the same
Page.

[rcmc]

Some of you would be shocked if you knew the trophy bucks that are being harvested with bow by outfitters and their clients. If there's to be restrictions, then the non-residents should be first.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

Everyone else is to blame not bow hunters were not part of the problem

Dude, do you only read your own posts? This isn't about bowhunters or rifle hunters. This about mis management and poor decisions by Srd, on numerous fronts....

[eggo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Dude, do you only read your own posts? This isn't about bowhunters or rifle hunters. This about mis management and poor decisions by Srd, on numerous fronts....

Exactly but but you think because your a bow hunter that nothing needs to change because you have no effect on anything

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Dude, do you only read your own posts? This isn't about bowhunters or rifle hunters. This about mis management and poor decisions by Srd, on numerous fronts....

Couldn't agree more!

[jryley]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

It all depends on what the data shows, how accurate it was collected and what they are supposedly trying to fix. If it's numbers then, there are way better methods and more serious things to investigate.

Reducing doe, outfitter and landowner tags, is a serious resolution to
strengthening numbers.

Remember this the same people that allowed in recent years...

- Sunday hunting ( which I'm against, but that's a different thread)
- expansion of days ( they added wednesday is some eastern zones)
- opening bow season down south on Sept 1st
- Cwd fiasco
- increasing tag numbers
- having some seasons end mid Dec.

Revert some of those and you'll get that 2-3% your looking for. Bow draw isn't the solution .

nobody is arguing those point potty. Im
Saying yes youre correct, but again if limiting the bow harvest helps even a fraction then yes it is part of the solution. Its oretty sad bud that you feel exempt from putting in the time and effort to fixing the problem. Thats the attitude i hope gets trampled
Into the ground. We either practise effective conservation as a cumulative group, or we take no steps forward. If one group sacrifices opportunity its only expected the other group should be willing to do the same as part of a common goal. Should species listed as threatened be allowed
To be
Hunted by bow hunters simply because the harvest would in theory be
Miniscule? Give me a break potty. Selfish selfish selfish man.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by jryley

nobody is arguing those point potty. Im
Saying yes youre correct, but again if limiting the bow harvest helps even a fraction then yes it is part of the solution. Its oretty sad bud that you feel exempt from putting in the time and effort to fixing the problem. Thats the attitude i hope gets trampled
Into the ground. We either practise effective conservation as a cumulative group, or we take no steps forward. If one group sacrifices opportunity its only expected the other group should be willing to do the same as part of a common goal. Should species listed as threatened be allowed
To be
Hunted by bow hunters simply because the harvest would in theory be
Miniscule? Give me a break potty. Selfish selfish selfish man.

X2 but they don't get it. They only their side of it.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

Exactly but but you think because your a bow hunter that nothing needs to change because you have no effect on anything

Why the stammer ? Lol

Is bow hunting the biggest reason for the mule problems...Really !!! Your starting to sound like the bowhunters are the reason you can't get anything.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

Depends on the wmu. 358 needs to be closed completely for mule deer. Antlered and antlerless. 5 buck tags issued there but still issuing 200 plus doe tags.

I would support a total mule deer closure in 358 for a few years!

I agree as well. 357,358,359 have been hit really hard. Another problem is with 356,355 and 354 being over the counter there are quite a few farmland deer getting killed and brought out to the bush to get gutted. Until they either close these zones (356,355,354) or put them on draw as well the population will have a hard time bouncing back.

I don't think putting the bow hunters on draw is a bad idea either, also making compulsary inspection of all mule deer kills like they do in B.C. would get some accurate numbers in place.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Why the stammer ? Lol

Is bow hunting the biggest reason for the mule problems...Really !!! Your starting to sound like the bowhunters are the reason you can't get anything.

No. But at least I can say I look at all sides of the debate you don't.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

nobody is arguing those point potty. Im
Saying yes youre correct, but again if limiting the bow harvest helps even a fraction then yes it is part of the solution. Its oretty sad bud that you feel exempt from putting in the time and effort to fixing the problem. Thats the attitude i hope gets trampled
Into the ground. We either practise effective conservation as a cumulative group, or we take no steps forward. If one group sacrifices opportunity its only expected the other group should be willing to do the same as part of a common goal. Should species listed as threatened be allowed
To be
Hunted by bow hunters simply because the harvest would in theory be
Miniscule? Give me a break potty. Selfish selfish selfish man.

Well, let's take away from everyone and all weapons, let's stop killing bucks when they are most vulnerable . Let's close the season mid nov?

And mule deer aren't listed as threatened!

I haven't heard you as a landowner step up and say. Yes us landowners are a huge problem, and something should be done, to limit our tags and make sure we actually use them where your suppose too! What do you think the % on landowners is?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

No. But at least I can say I look at all sides of the debate you don't.

Lol. I don't put the problem Or blame on bowhunting or rifle hunters... The blame lies else where,where I've stated repeatedly ..

[jryley]

No ones blaming bow hunters for anything! I have no idea where that comes from. Potty would you not cherish the day where every hunter, in every season, with any weapon, could walk in and buy a general
Tag for any species they so choose? Or are u more concerned with just what transpires in 'your' bow season. Pretty important question to ask yourself. I for one want nothing more than to see countless pictures posted on forums such as this, game running around everywhere, resulting in our heritage sport growing, resulting in the antis seeing how effective the hunting
Community is in managing our resources. If you are with the thought that you only care what happens in bow season then you sir are legitimately
Less of a true outdoorsmen than I, and im
Ok with that. Some guys are just wired that way.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Well, let's take away from everyone and all weapons, let's stop killing bucks when they are most vulnerable . Let's close the season mid nov?

And mule deer aren't listed as threatened!

I haven't heard you as a landowner step up and say. Yes us landowners are a huge problem, and something should be done, to limit our tags and make sure we actually use them where your suppose too! What do you think the % on landowners is?

I stated twice we need to cut bavk everywhere! I dont even know what a landowner tag looks lile potty...that should
Indicate how much ive used one. Ive shot two deer in (5 & 6 yr old bucks respectivelly) exactly 6 years.....try again on the landowner issue! I manage herds on my neighbors land....i tell my hunting party that i host every season
Which animals NOT to shoot, and if they do they arent
Welcome back. I havent even raised my pins or crosshairs on a mule
Deer in over 8 years. Tell me again how im
Not in tune with whats going on or how im
Not doing my part?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

No ones blaming bow hunters for anything! I have no idea where that comes from. Potty would you not cherish the day where every hunter, in every season, with any weapon, could walk in and buy a general
Tag for any species they so choose? Or are u more concerned with just what transpires in 'your' bow season. Pretty important question to ask yourself. I for one want nothing more than to see countless pictures posted on forums such as this, game running around everywhere, resulting in our heritage sport growing, resulting in the antis seeing how effective the hunting
Community is in managing our resources. If you are with the thought that you only care what happens in bow season then you sir are legitimately
Less of a true outdoorsmen than I, and im
Ok with that. Some guys are just wired that way.

Your dream could come to fruition, if we eliminated outfitter and landowner tags.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Lol. I don't put the problem Or blame on bowhunting or rifle hunters... The blame lies else where,where I've stated repeatedly ..

Then why not look at how we can fix it instead of saying it's not bow hunters, if putting bow hunters on a draw helps then we should that's all I have ever said

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

I stated twice we need to cut bavk everywhere! I dont even know what a landowner tag looks lile potty...that should
Indicate how much ive used one. Ive shot two deer in (5 & 6 yr old bucks respectivelly) exactly 6 years.....try again on the landowner issue! I manage herds on my neighbors land....i tell my hunting party that i host every season
Which animals NOT to shoot, and if they do they arent
Welcome back. I havent even raised my pins or crosshairs on a mule
Deer in over 8 years. Tell me again how im
Not in tune with whats going on or how im
Not doing my part?

Your job isn't to manage herds, that srd's job...and they are failing miserably at it. Your part is to hold Srd accountable, and force them to make better decisions, without taking away from a single resident of Alberta .

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

Then why not look at how we can fix it instead of saying it's not bow hunters, if putting bow hunters on a draw helps then we should that's all I have ever said

Really, there's many posts on how to fix it....but you only read your own posts....I'm done with you, all you see is bowhunters

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by eggo

Then why not look at how we can fix it instead of saying it's not bow hunters, if putting bow hunters on a draw helps then we should that's all I have ever said

"Then why not look at how we can fix it instead of saying it is bow hunters"

....I put a spin on your quote

There are bigger and more effective ways to "help out"....is putting bowhunters on draw 1 way?....yes it is.

Is it the best way?....is it the way things should be focussed?....I don't think it is.

LC

[eggo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

"Then why not look at how we can fix it instead of saying it is bow hunters"

....I put a spin on your quote

There are bigger and more effective ways to "help out"....is putting bowhunters on draw 1 way?....yes it is.

Is it the best way?....is it the way things should be focussed?....I don't think it is.

LC

I can agree on that, but at least look at everything. Some on here will only look at ideas that don't effect them

[jryley]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Your dream could come to fruition, if we eliminated outfitter and landowner tags.

Your making feeble attempts at deflecting blame
From your own actions.

Lol honestly potty....i hate to say it...but its guys like you that have caused me to instantly turn away every bow hunter that asks permission other than my pals that accompany me. The attitude of 'i bowhunt, nothing i do is wrong' is the main reason y there is in fact generally a rifle vs bow mentality. Its disgusting lol.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by eggo

I can agree on that, but at least look at everything. Some on here will only look at ideas that don't effect them

....thats my point, I AM looking at everything. The only thing you have mentioned here is "the bowhunters"....

Honestly I rifle and I bow hunt sometimes equally/sometimes 1 more than the other, I already have about 15-20 days bowhunting under my belt (not including scouting days which I lost count of) I haven't shot anything yet.....I rarely bow hunt mule deer exclusively.

I just hate seeing opportunities for hunters shift and change as part of a game management stategy that is running off the rails....backed by some nonempirical "data".

LC

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

Your making feeble attempts at deflecting blame
From your own actions.

Lol honestly potty....i hate to say it...but its guys like you that have caused me to instantly turn away every bow hunter that asks permission other than my pals that accompany me. The attitude of 'i bowhunt, nothing i do is wrong' is the main reason y there is in fact generally a rifle vs bow mentality. Its disgusting lol.

That's to bad. You don't know me! My landowners love me, and work well with me and my opinions...

But your not gonna get me to say bowhunters are at fault, I don't think rifle guys are either. You know where my blame lies, united with all hunters against the problem. You want me to rip on bowhunters, let's talk about the 100 yrd
shots. The mule thing isn't about hunters!

But you want to pick sides, and divide hunters......that my friend
is an Anti mentality..... So sad!

it's attitudes like your that make me not want to help landowners, or turn in
poachers , report illegal activity or I don't own the land so why should I care!