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  #121  
Old 06-22-2012, 03:53 PM
albertadeer albertadeer is offline
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Help me here!

Are you saying that archery tackle is more proficient than rifles or that bowhunters are better hunters than rifle guys?

Seriously there are big deer shot all season, with all types of equipment. you need to put down the fall editions and pick up the winter ones, you'll see that a lot monsters are taken with rifles in the rut .

The mentality that bowhunters are killing all the big bucks in early season needs to stop! It makes the people saying it look inadequate , and silly! Bowhunters are like everyone else, they hunt when the season opens, and hunt just as hard in the rut! Heck my biggest buck was shot in November , with a rifle.

The few bowhunters that shoot big deer consistently , don't just shoot them in sept! And those guys do put more, time, money and effort , than the average guy!

How many scouting days have you put in so far? I know how many I have put already!
Your correct. Some of those old hidden monarchs come out of hiding in Nov. But when the crops are still up in the fields, the bucks feel safe and are easy to pattern. Same goes with whitetails...But they usually don't sit out in the open all day like mule deer do. Even the first week of rifle season here used to be a walk in the park for 180"+ bucks if you do some home work.


I dont know how many scouting days i have in??? How many has it been since last season? Thats how many
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  #122  
Old 06-22-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl View Post
TJ's number is incorrect, ( no disrespect TJ). I think the error being made by some, is in not subtracting the archery license sales numbers from the Resident hunter numbers. If you dont, then your in fact counting the archers twice, in a round about way. Skewing the numbers the same way SRD maybe as well. At least that's what I come up with, but since we can't get together on the initial debate, I don't see us all agreeing on the numbers game. As said, mandatory registration would be the only true measure.
No they are correct.If you want the percentage of a total, you need to start with the total number. I was kidding when I said math wasn't my strong suit Really no room for disagreement or arguement on this one. You are working with known numbers with a known formula.....it a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #123  
Old 06-22-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Help me here!

Are you saying that archery tackle is more proficient than rifles or that bowhunters are better hunters than rifle guys?

Seriously there are big deer shot all season, with all types of equipment. you need to put down the fall editions and pick up the winter ones, you'll see that a lot monsters are taken with rifles in the rut .

The mentality that bowhunters are killing all the big bucks in early season needs to stop! It makes the people saying it look inadequate , and silly! Bowhunters are like everyone else, they hunt when the season opens, and hunt just as hard in the rut! Heck my biggest buck was shot in November , with a rifle.

The few bowhunters that shoot big deer consistently , don't just shoot them in sept! And those guys do put more, time, money and effort , than the average guy!

How many scouting days have you put in so far? I know how many I have put already!

X2 well said potty!
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  #124  
Old 06-22-2012, 06:13 PM
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Tell me really what the problem is guys?? i don't get it. Why s not fair to have a draw and you can either hunt it with a bow in the early season or you can use your rifle later on in a late season?? The draw gives everyone the same advantages either way. The numbers will be controlled and kept tracker of better as well because we will know what the hunter numbers are. Makes sense to me.
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  #125  
Old 06-22-2012, 09:12 PM
Deer Hunter Deer Hunter is offline
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The sucess rate for archery is low enough not to need a draw to restrict the harvest imo.

The same reasons the prairie bowhunting season is two months long, all week except sunday in compared to Wed- Sat one month rifle season. They admit that success is low enough bowhunting to warrant the longer season.

Argueably, they could cut off a week or two of the season to combat the apparent over harvest, but instead they look to the draw.
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  #126  
Old 06-22-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
The sucess rate for archery is low enough not to need a draw to restrict the harvest imo.

The same reasons the prairie bowhunting season is two months long, all week except sunday in compared to Wed- Sat one month rifle season. They admit that success is low enough bowhunting to warrant the longer season.

Argueably, they could cut off a week or two of the season to combat the apparent over harvest, but instead they look to the draw.
Correct on all accounts . When I saw them give us back the month of September last year here in the 100 zones I knew that would make the success rate rise for the simple reason that it gave bow hunters more time . Give rifle hunters every day hunting opportunities in these same zones and see what happens then .Maybe their success rates would even go up . Just another typical SRD mismanagement .
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  #127  
Old 06-22-2012, 09:51 PM
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Do you bowhunt TJ?

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  #128  
Old 06-22-2012, 09:51 PM
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It may be lower than rifle hunting but it still makes live deer into dead ones and fair is fair. It should be about overall numbers of deer hitting the ground should it not? To control the numbers dead deer every year and to keep the numbers in a certain manageable range the only way to do that and be fair across the board for rifle, muzzleloaders and archers is to have a draw. Make the seasons what you want but in the end it is fair to all parties this way and it manages the deer herd to the numbers that the so called proffesionals want to keep them at. Tell me how that is not MORE fair to everyone involved than it is now????
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  #129  
Old 06-22-2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Just lucky View Post
It should be about overall numbers of deer hitting the ground should it not?
If hunting in Alberta was only about harvesting a set number of animals in a certain area, then fine, put it all on draw and ensure we kill our target.

I see hunting as a blend of game management and hunter experience/opportunity. And putting archery on draw really drains the experience/opportunity part that some really enjoy without a draw at no significant benefit to the overall game managment solution.

People who are in favor of the archery draw really dont know what it takes to kill a big muley imo. If you think an archery draw is going to make the difference, then im pretty sure you'll be dissapointed regardless of what happens.
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  #130  
Old 06-22-2012, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Do you bowhunt TJ?

LC
Yup
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  #131  
Old 06-22-2012, 11:58 PM
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They can fill pits with deer shot out of choppers. Three years later shutdown general seasons. Beacuse of +/- 5% harvest.

Wonder who was fired for letting the massacre happen?
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  #132  
Old 06-23-2012, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Just lucky View Post
It may be lower than rifle hunting but it still makes live deer into dead ones and fair is fair. It should be about overall numbers of deer hitting the ground should it not? To control the numbers dead deer every year and to keep the numbers in a certain manageable range the only way to do that and be fair across the board for rifle, muzzleloaders and archers is to have a draw. Make the seasons what you want but in the end it is fair to all parties this way and it manages the deer herd to the numbers that the so called proffesionals want to keep them at. Tell me how that is not MORE fair to everyone involved than it is now????
Does Srd manage game or people???
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  #133  
Old 06-23-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Just lucky View Post
It may be lower than rifle hunting but it still makes live deer into dead ones and fair is fair. It should be about overall numbers of deer hitting the ground should it not? To control the numbers dead deer every year and to keep the numbers in a certain manageable range the only way to do that and be fair across the board for rifle, muzzleloaders and archers is to have a draw. Make the seasons what you want but in the end it is fair to all parties this way and it manages the deer herd to the numbers that the so called proffesionals want to keep them at. Tell me how that is not MORE fair to everyone involved than it is now????
It is more fair now because ANYONE can pick up a bow and bow hunt. Because some are too lazy to get off the internet and stop whining with BS rhetoric does not make it unfair. Its funny how all of the non bowhunters are the ones who inflate archery harvests and attempt to skew facts in their favour.

Claim # 1 "they get to hunt mulies when they are at their dumbest"

BS. When they are running in bachelor herds with multiple eyes watching, nothing but food and safety on their minds, in bed early and out of it later as the need to get to good food sources in the cold is not around, you cannot claim they are dumber. Even the biggest rookie hunter knows a mulie and wt buck are dumbest from the second week of november on....

Claim #2 "its easier to sneak on them when the crops are taller"

Yes, if you manage to see them in the tall crop you may be able to sneak on them. That same tall crop that you claim is the ultimate stalking aid can also be a detriment. When september rolls around, many of those fields are already harvested, the ones that aren't are ripe and noisy. They also hide a bedded buck pretty darn quick. They also hide the other deer in that group that you didn't know was there and they are the ones that bust your stalk. in southern alberta most crops are harvested by the end of september, so where is the advantage for the rest of the season?

Claim #3 "they kill all the big bucks"

Horse puckey. just because a FEW very accomplished hunters who spend more time out there in the field than 99% of hunters can do it with some regularity does not in any way shape or form make it the norm. Take a look at any local horn show. How many top flight bucks are there every year from bow hunters? VERY VERY few.


I find it rediculous that such a change would be made with so little facts known. The fact is, the SRD does a pi$$ poor job of knowing what is actually taken and has no idea how to manage their game.
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  #134  
Old 06-23-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
It is more fair now because ANYONE can pick up a bow and bow hunt. Because some are too lazy to get off the internet and stop whining with BS rhetoric does not make it unfair. Its funny how all of the non bowhunters are the ones who inflate archery harvests and attempt to skew facts in their favour.

Claim # 1 "they get to hunt mulies when they are at their dumbest"

BS. When they are running in bachelor herds with multiple eyes watching, nothing but food and safety on their minds, in bed early and out of it later as the need to get to good food sources in the cold is not around, you cannot claim they are dumber. Even the biggest rookie hunter knows a mulie and wt buck are dumbest from the second week of november on....

Claim #2 "its easier to sneak on them when the crops are taller"

Yes, if you manage to see them in the tall crop you may be able to sneak on them. That same tall crop that you claim is the ultimate stalking aid can also be a detriment. When september rolls around, many of those fields are already harvested, the ones that aren't are ripe and noisy. They also hide a bedded buck pretty darn quick. They also hide the other deer in that group that you didn't know was there and they are the ones that bust your stalk. in southern alberta most crops are harvested by the end of september, so where is the advantage for the rest of the season?

Claim #3 "they kill all the big bucks"

Horse puckey. just because a FEW very accomplished hunters who spend more time out there in the field than 99% of hunters can do it with some regularity does not in any way shape or form make it the norm. Take a look at any local horn show. How many top flight bucks are there every year from bow hunters? VERY VERY few.


I find it rediculous that such a change would be made with so little facts known. The fact is, the SRD does a pi$$ poor job of knowing what is actually taken and has no idea how to manage their game.
Very Well Said
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  #135  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Does Srd manage game or people???
People it's easier and a lot less work
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  #136  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:11 PM
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How much more money would SRD bring in if it was all on a draw?

It's already BS how the bow hunters are required to buy a separate archery license. Rifle hunters don't have to buy a tag and a rifle hunting permit.

I hunt with rifle and bow.

Alberta SRD is all about the money. They run our wildlife like a business to make $$$$$, not bucks.
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  #137  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by eric2381 View Post
How much more money would SRD bring in if it was all on a draw?

It's already BS how the bow hunters are required to buy a separate archery license. Rifle hunters don't have to buy a tag and a rifle hunting permit.

I hunt with rifle and bow.

Alberta SRD is all about the money. They run our wildlife like a business to make $$$$$, not bucks.
Actually none. The goverment doesn't get any of the drsaw application money.
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  #138  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Actually none. The goverment doesn't get any of the drsaw application money.
Where does it go?
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  #139  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eric2381 View Post
It's already BS how the bow hunters are required to buy a separate archery license. Rifle hunters don't have to buy a tag and a rifle hunting permit.
The purchasing of a Bowhunters Permit was actually spear-headed by the ABA from what I recall.
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  #140  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:35 PM
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Spot and stalk mule deer hunting with a bow is one of the biggest challenges there is in Alberta if u don't believe that u don't know S**t
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  #141  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:36 PM
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where does it go?
ibm.
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  #142  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rackmastr View Post
The purchasing of a Bowhunters Permit was actually spear-headed by the ABA from what I recall.
Yup so they could accurately track bowhunter numbers.

Last edited by sheephunter; 06-23-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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  #143  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:43 PM
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Not really pointing any fingers or saying it's right or wrong but I do find it a bit amusing that some of those that are the most upset seem to also think it's unfair that non-residents can get a tag every year without going through the draw process and that they are getting more than the 10% cap yet they feel it's okay that bowhunters can get a tag every year while 85% of the hunting population must wait long periods in the draw and that it also okay to get more than the 15% cap. You must admit there is a bit od hypocracy here. I know, everyone could become a bow hunter if they weren't so lazy and pathetic but I guess everyone could become a non-resident too.
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  #144  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rackmastr View Post
The purchasing of a Bowhunters Permit was actually spear-headed by the ABA from what I recall.
Yup, but a vast majority of bowhunters don't even complain about it, they just pay and go ! I wonder what the response would be from the rifle guys if they had to pay a rifle permit every year !

Maybe Srd could impose something like on rifle guys. And get funds allocated to places that need help inisde our system !
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  #145  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Yup, but a vast majority of bowhunters don't even complain about it, they just pay and go ! I wonder what the response would be from the rifle guys if they had to pay a rifle permit every year !

Maybe Srd could impose something like on rifle guys. And get funds allocated to places that need help inisde our system !
Actually virtually none of the bowhunting licence fees goes to the government either so a similar rifle licence would bring ESRD no more money
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  #146  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:00 PM
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Whoever helped set-up and implement the draw system and decided that no money from it should go back into the resource is a true moron.....IMHO.

LC
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  #147  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Actually virtually none of the bowhunting licence fees goes to the government either so a similar rifle licence would bring ESRD no more money
I understand that, but there are area's within Ibm and the draw system that could use the money to make parts of that system more efficient!
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  #148  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Not really pointing any fingers or saying it's right or wrong but I do find it a bit amusing that some of those that are the most upset seem to also think it's unfair that non-residents can get a tag every year without going through the draw process and that they are getting more than the 10% cap yet they feel it's okay that bowhunters can get a tag every year while 85% of the hunting population must wait long periods in the draw and that it also okay to get more than the 15% cap. You must admit there is a bit od hypocracy here. I know, everyone could become a bow hunter if they weren't so lazy and pathetic but I guess everyone could become a non-resident too.
That first sentence is huge !...lol I mean looooong lol ( a second language guy has to get his shots in on the writer, when he can . lol )


If non residents means that you should be able to hunt as much as you can afford!Then there is a small minority of people that would agree that residents should have the same oppoturnity!

The last thing we need is the dollar to dicate the hunting oppoturnity here!
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  #149  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
It is more fair now because ANYONE can pick up a bow and bow hunt. Because some are too lazy to get off the internet and stop whining with BS rhetoric does not make it unfair. Its funny how all of the non bowhunters are the ones who inflate archery harvests and attempt to skew facts in their favour.
If everybody picked up a bow to avoid the mule deer draw it would be all on a draw anyway , so whats the difference.

The general mulie tag for archery is just a way to kill a big mulie every year and still biuld up priority for a draw tag. You tell me how that manages a population
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  #150  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:35 PM
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The general mulie tag for archery is just a way to kill a big mulie every year and still biuld up priority for a draw tag. You tell me how that manages a population
Did it ever occur to you that a archery tackle is not a FREE pass to a big buck? Did it occur to you that folks indeed shoot does using archery tackle as well on a general tag? Harvest of any deer using any method is part of a "management" strategy.

The way some folks are talking all you do is get a bow, buy an archery permit, get a general tag, walk out and pick the biggest deer you can find, walk up to him with in 20 yards, put an arrow behind the front shoulder, then BOOM your trophy room grows by one.....

.....yah thats exactly how it works....NOT.

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