BC flooding

[jungleboy]

I am wondering how bad all this flooding will affect future salmon stocks in BC.

[straight]

You really expect somebody to give you correct answer?
Right now it affects logistics a lot.

[Smoky buck]

It will definitely hurt some runs but they have been declining for many reasons for a long time

They will probably use it as a scape goat to take attention away from other issues though

[Bushrat]

Just another nail in the coffin.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by straight

You really expect somebody to give you correct answer?
Right now it affects logistics a lot.

Well I don’t know if there is a correct answer, I was more interested in opinions from those who might have an interest in the subject.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Well I don’t know if there is a correct answer, I was more interested in opinions from those who might have an interest in the subject.

Rains in the mountains triggering mud slides and choking spewing rivers is the worst threat. Don’t think this happened from reports I read.

Most damage seems to be lower down in the river systems.

Entrapment of smolt in flooded areas isn’t good. Siltation can affect their health. Being prematurely flushed into the ocean will kill them.

When settlers came west the major rivers where a mess of log jams and side channels all the down the lower stretches into the estuaries and deltas. These were the pressure relief valves that allowed smolt to hid in current breaks and slow down the transition to salt water life.

BC lower rivers are all man made narrow funnels that shoot water faster into the oceans. Not good.

In some creeks and rivers… the higher waters can allow for salmon to go where they couldn’t in normal water years. A small percentage of salmon are wanderers and will settle new waters if they can. For that to work it comes down to flood timing versus spawning timing. As each stream is different… it’s hard to predict a positive outcome on this.

Given the lack of reliable smolt migration numbers and at times even returning numbers it’s hard to say the impacts.

Some impacts are also compounding. Such as siltation, flooding in the Fraser already experiencing past rock slide blockages in hell’s canyon. Forest fires in spawning stream areas can increase siltation and heat up streams due to reduced shade.

These floods while extensive… seem more impactful lower down the systems. Maybe BC and DFO will look at this in the upcoming months.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I am wondering how bad all this flooding will affect future salmon stocks in BC.

I was wondering the same thing. I guess it takes a few years to see the impacts with low return numbers.

There are some significant gravel beds lower down in the system that are prorected for salmon spawning. I wonder if they washed away or now clogged with debris.

Salmon sure are being hit Hard in recent years. I used to salmon fish out of uclulet every year, sometimes twice. Now they are struggling it doesn't feel right.

[Crankbait]

Ironnoggin posted a link in this on the other flood thread,, second last post. I think

[CranePete]

I’d think that some of the major producers west of Hope will have been scoured. Rivers like Seymour, Capilano, Harrison and its tributaries, Chilliwack and many others which were natal flows will have been scrubbed, and any spawners(like chum and steelhead) are doomed. Additionally, any juvenile fish will have been flushed out into the Straight of Georgia. DFO is going to have their hands full trying to figure out how to recover from this.

[pikeman06]

Ol mother nature calling the shots. Either it's the end of some salmon runs because it's unsustainable or if she figures it's sustainable itll be status quo but a week or two later or earlier to make sure the spawners are fed proper. It's very humbling to anyone that respects nature, when a natural disaster happens, you start to look at why it happens and then realize it's out of our hands, all the regulations in the world before or after has very little to do with what mother nature figures is sustainable or not. Just like a winterkill out here. Protect fish till you are blue in the lips, then mother nature kills them all off because there isn't enough forage or oxygen or they weren't there in the first place for a reason, and we all think we are smarter and in control when it works for a year or two, and then here's a foot of rain in one day...how did that treat ya? It could happen to us all at any given moment. Feel for my fellow humans out west but the writing was on the wall just like slave lake and fort mac. I suspect a full migratory fish ban is in the works till they get some kind of inventory of what returns and what kinda shape the recruitment is. Just my 2 cents.

[Outbound]

The DFO won't do anything.The only thing they've done is hasten the extinction of the BC salmon runs. They'll ensure that extinction after this. The DFO is more interested in playing politics than actually managing fish stocks effectively. I'd be surprised if the average DFO employee can name all the species of Pacific salmon never mind understand the real issues involved with the runs.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Outbound

The DFO won't do anything.The only thing they've done is hasten the extinction of the BC salmon runs. They'll ensure that extinction after this. The DFO is more interested in playing politics than actually managing fish stocks effectively. I'd be surprised if the average DFO employee can name all the species of Pacific salmon never mind understand the real issues involved with the runs.

Mother Nature knows more than the DFO will ever know. It might be a tough few years but the salmon will be back. You really think this has never happened before?

BW

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Mother Nature knows more than the DFO will ever know. It might be a tough few years but the salmon will be back. You really think this has never happened before?

BW

They have been on a steady decline for many many years do to many factors. This is not going to help things at all

If it was just the flood that was impacting salmon I agree Mother Nature would be enough for salmon to rebound but salmon are getting hit from many angles

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

They have been on a steady decline for many many years do to many factors. This is not going to help things at all

If it was just the flood that was impacting salmon I agree Mother Nature would be enough for salmon to rebound but salmon are getting hit from many angles

I think steady decline is gill netting across rivers.

Runs for select streams can come in a short burst. What looks like fish coming for the whole river and netting just a few days can in fact kill a whole genetic group. Over time the genetics are harmed. Runs that are protected are just the earliest ones. Fewer fish spawn and fewer make it back in 4 years. Seal and sea lion predation can be bad.

What most people are unaware of on the coast is fishing licenses were granted to people based upon a quota check once upon a time.

In turn they were allotted a portion of the catch of publicly owned salmon, halibut etc.

The Pattinson groups essentially owns the lions share of fishing licences.

https://www.timescolonist.com/busine...-coast-4672612

Individuals were granted licences. Pattison in turn paid cash to buy it or some times leases it.

Worse example was halibut quota. Everyone and there dog went out and caught halibut when the quota review time was announced. Government then have them all a piece and most in turn just sold or leased their share to others and pocket the money yearly for doing nothing.

The political pressure a billionaire like Pattison puts on the system is immense.

Greed will destroy sport fishing on the west coast.

Prime example…

Halibut limit for sport angling was dropped… then dropped and then dropped again.

Once you could retain 3 any size. Then two. Now it’s 2 but under 90 cm or one between 90 and 133 cm. Makes sense for protecting the big spawning females in your sport fishing area.

However long line commercial fishermen can keep it all.

It’s because of this quota imposed that more adversely affects the sport fishing industry.

Salmon are the same. More effort to respect the commercial side by politicians… less to protect the sport.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I think steady decline is gill netting across rivers.

Runs for select streams can come in a short burst. What looks like fish coming for the whole river and netting just a few days can in fact kill a whole genetic group. Over time the genetics are harmed. Runs that are protected are just the earliest ones. Fewer fish spawn and fewer make it back in 4 years. Seal and sea lion predation can be bad.

What most people are unaware of on the coast is fishing licenses were granted to people based upon a quota check once upon a time.

In turn they were allotted a portion of the catch of publicly owned salmon, halibut etc.

The Pattinson groups essentially owns the lions share of fishing licences.

https://www.timescolonist.com/busine...-coast-4672612

Individuals were granted licences. Pattison in turn paid cash to buy it or some times leases it.

Worse example was halibut quota. Everyone and there dog went out and caught halibut when the quota review time was announced. Government then have them all a piece and most in turn just sold or leased their share to others and pocket the money yearly for doing nothing.

The political pressure a billionaire like Pattison puts on the system is immense.

Greed will destroy sport fishing on the west coast.

Prime example…

Halibut limit for sport angling was dropped… then dropped and then dropped again.

Once you could retain 3 any size. Then two. Now it’s 2 but under 90 cm or one between 90 and 133 cm. Makes sense for protecting the big spawning females in your sport fishing area.

However long line commercial fishermen can keep it all.

It’s because of this quota imposed that more adversely affects the sport fishing industry.

Salmon are the same. More effort to respect the commercial side by politicians… less to protect the sport.

The commercial netting doesn’t help but it doesn’t rank that high on the list compared to other issues

I grew up seeing the BS with salmon and watched many small stream runs disappear, the numbers dramatically decline in the big systems, and past spawning tributaries become inhabitable

I have spoken about this subject enough in my life that I realize that people just want to point their fingers at one smoking gun and blame it for everything. Pick your poison chemical fishery, salmon farms, FNs, and seals/sea lions are the most popular

Fact is the issue of the salmon decline is they are getting hit on just about every angle anf F all has been done to change a thing

I have lost the will to put any effort into futile debates on the issues related to salmon. Odds are the finger point will continue till salmon are merely a rarity or gone

[Outbound]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Mother Nature knows more than the DFO will ever know. It might be a tough few years but the salmon will be back. You really think this has never happened before?

BW

If we could let mother nature do her thing, we'd be fine. The DFO prefers to meddle and screw things up in the name of politics. They're an incompetent, corrupt group of idiots who couldn't manage a lemonade stand nevermind a provincial fishery.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Salmon are the same. More effort to respect the commercial side by politicians… less to protect the sport.

Nope. The commercial end of things have taken hit after hit from DFO over the years, the latest a 60 plus percent rollback to all (this year).

Rather the new focus is on handing it all over to the FN's.
This is an ongoing and focused project for DFO as demanded by the PMO.
And trust me, it IS very much moving forward.

Sporties too are taking the hit of course, but definitely not to the benefit of the commercial sector as you've implied.

Originally Posted by Crankbait

Ironnoggin posted a link in this on the other flood thread,, second last post. I think

Yep. Already in serious trouble, this catastrophic event may well be the final nail for many stocks of concern:

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/351...y-raging-water

Those pointing fingers at grievous mismanagement by DFO are hitting the nail firmly on the head.

Sadly,
Nog

[Grizzly Adams1]

Just heard on the news, ALL of Canada's fish stocks are on the verge of collapse, with the exception of Bluefin tuna, which has achieved a moderate rebound, fishermen of course want to increase the allowed quota 15 %. This is a no win situation.

Grizz