what is this new Zero Debt Initiative we are hearing about?

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The Beauty of Communism is the exposure of a Class society as a natural phenomena.

In the USSR 20 % were members of the "Party". They lived relatively high on the hog compared to the 80 %. You got there by family connection and talent.

For the rest, they stole the place blind, sold everything they was not bolted down on the black market, and ...

Capitalism flourished until the system collapsed from the State's lack of productivity. The Entrepreneurs flourished, and made out very well.

There you have it ladies and gents!

Now in Communist China, they accepted Capitalism, and Wealth, and Class, and Enterprise and Entrepreneurship. Government continued to govern, and could be bought off as needed with the money you made.

The only reason Democracy is not taking off in China is that there is another way you can get the Government to do what you want, that is alot quicker and cheaper than Elections: Money.

Drewski

Unfortunately, you don't have the ability to criticize the state or their policies.

[Agb Crash]

This only works in a society where no one is trying to better themselves.

Won't work. In one word GREED. we all want more for ourselves and our children and their children etc....

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

The Government pays you a megar sum until death and you live in some sort of government owned
facility with no tax, you do not own your house, possibly do not own a vehicle, but you carry no debt load..

A pretty accurate pic of the 'incoming' plan.

[WildBillG]

KenAO07Vette it is what we will all be liviing in after the Covid crisis is done. I believe you are all for the lock downs and more government control you should enjoy it. Me I feel bad for all the soldiers in WWI and WWII that died to protect us from this garbage. They must be turning over in their graves seeing all the Canadians wanting what they fought against. Here we are the gun owners playing into the governments agenda. Instead of fighting back as we should. Remember gun control and bans is in the name of public safety to we better follow along. Yah I know I am a conspicy theorist but at least my eyes are open and I am not a sheep.

[ESOXangler]

Think of all the hunting and fishing a guy could get in!

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Think of all the hunting and fishing a guy could get in!

Who’s gonna be left to build or sell fishing supplies if they could be fishing all day?

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by amosfella

This should give you a place to start.

https://youtu.be/iw8szsqy4vQ

For those (like me) that just can't stand the sound of that POS's voice...
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...set-for-canada

"Seems the idea of using a global health crisis as an excuse to fundamentally alter society didn’t sit well with the public.

Well, that doesn’t mean Trudeau was fully shying away from that idea when it came to speaking to a global audience. A video of the PM speaking to a United Nations meeting at the end of September has started to gain all the wrong kind of attention as people parsed and shared his words over the weekend.

“This pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset,” Trudeau said.

“This is our chance to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems that actually address global challenges like extreme poverty, inequality and climate change.”"

[Howard Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

For those (like me) that just can't stand the sound of that POS's voice...
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...set-for-canada

"Seems the idea of using a global health crisis as an excuse to fundamentally alter society didn’t sit well with the public.

Well, that doesn’t mean Trudeau was fully shying away from that idea when it came to speaking to a global audience. A video of the PM speaking to a United Nations meeting at the end of September has started to gain all the wrong kind of attention as people parsed and shared his words over the weekend.

“This pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset,” Trudeau said.

“This is our chance to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems that actually address global challenges like extreme poverty, inequality and climate change.”"

>>
Yes, I too saw this one. Smug son of a.....all he could do to hide his smirk.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

May as well read up on all the other aspects of the UN Agenda 2030... Trudeau mentioned it outright in one of his addresses as the direction he wishes to take the country. From mass immigration, to more government control, and complete civil disarmament... For so many that balked at the idea Citing Canada’s a free country, it would never happen here, and laughed at those who mentioned agenda 2030 as Conspiracy Theorists.... Taje another look, and prepare to replace the Maple Leaf in the Canadian flag with a Hammer and Sickle...

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Agenda 2030 will be the complete death of the illusion of freedom we live in now. Unless something is done to turn the tide we are as good as cooked. Not sure where on earth a person could go....personally I would be for all out war instead of laying down to these ideologies.

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Agenda 2030 is a very desperate attempt to deal with the World's real problem that no one wants to talk about. That is OVERPOPULATION. Sure they talk about ending Poverty and Hunger and making everything Sustainable, but how does this Socialist dogma answer the real problem of new consumers needing the basics of human survival, let alone prosperity?

When I left High School, the world population was 4.5 Billion. We are now sitting at 8.5 Billion, and by 2035ish we are going to hit 10 Billion people.

Now to achieve the food production we have it only required massive amounts of fossil fuel based fertilizer, fossil fuel powered large scale equipment, the complete loss of wildlife habitat, and alot of chemicals. No Windmill or Solar Panel has replaced this basic problem of increasing agricultural output to feed the coming Billions.

Even still, the World has to rely on huge inputs of fossil fuel for transportation from producers to consumers. There is a basic bottle neck because of this limit on capacity called DISTANCE.

The UN knows we have fished the Oceans out, and have tapped out the agricultural output. The UN is encouraging the world to feed down the Food chain, to eating insects for protein. That is how bad it really is.

So how do you manage something that cannot be managed? You try and take away from those pesky producers as much as you can to appease the consumers, who just keep increasing in numbers. That is all the UN is trying to do, and it will not work.

It is not secret that the next World War will not be fought over ideology or oil. It will be fought over food and fresh safe drinking water. Still, it will not matter for the consumer nations. They just keep adding to their numbers regardless of our attempts to increase agricultural output. All those inputs have to be paid for by someone, somehow.

Some of you will remember that in the early 2000's India passed 1 Billion people. Its present population is estimated at over 1.35 Billion. They could not even support the 1 Billion, so why add 350 Million more??? India is not alone in explosive population growth. Look at Nigeria.


But Trudeau and his band of merry dreamers at the UN will tell the World that there is nothing to worry about, we have it all under control. All you Producers have to do is listen to us and do as you are told.

And for the Consumer Nations with spiralling population growth, you can just keep multiplying without any consequences.

Trust us.

Drewski

This is some pretty sobering stuff! My Mom said many years ago ," There are just too many people on the planet". Everything has limits, well, except the turd's ignorance!

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Think of all the hunting and fishing a guy could get in!

Then soon there would be no fish or wildlife left since everyone else would be out there doing it too. That is if you are allowed to still own your guns.

[SHEDHEAD]

And yet here sit farmers with full bins of certain grains because there is no market demand......

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Agenda 2030 is a very desperate attempt to deal with the World's real problem that no one wants to talk about. That is OVERPOPULATION. Sure they talk about ending Poverty and Hunger and making everything Sustainable, but how does this Socialist dogma answer the real problem of new consumers needing the basics of human survival, let alone prosperity?

When I left High School, the world population was 4.5 Billion. We are now sitting at 8.5 Billion, and by 2035ish we are going to hit 10 Billion people.

Now to achieve the food production we have it only required massive amounts of fossil fuel based fertilizer, fossil fuel powered large scale equipment, the complete loss of wildlife habitat, and alot of chemicals. No Windmill or Solar Panel has replaced this basic problem of increasing agricultural output to feed the coming Billions.



Even still, the World has to rely on huge inputs of fossil fuel for transportation from producers to consumers. There is a basic bottle neck because of this limit on capacity called DISTANCE.

The UN knows we have fished the Oceans out, and have tapped out the agricultural output. The UN is encouraging the world to feed down the Food chain, to eating insects for protein. That is how bad it really is.

So how do you manage something that cannot be managed? You try and take away from those pesky producers as much as you can to appease the consumers, who just keep increasing in numbers. That is all the UN is trying to do, and it will not work.

It is not secret that the next World War will not be fought over ideology or oil. It will be fought over food and fresh safe drinking water. Still, it will not matter for the consumer nations. They just keep adding to their numbers regardless of our attempts to increase agricultural output. All those inputs have to be paid for by someone, somehow.

Some of you will remember that in the early 2000's India passed 1 Billion people. Its present population is estimated at over 1.35 Billion. They could not even support the 1 Billion, so why add 350 Million more??? India is not alone in explosive population growth. Look at Nigeria.

Anyway, the World agricultural output will collapse as the soil becomes too laden with salts from irrigation, fertilizer, and chemical use. What will countries like Nigeria and India do then? As Fossil fuels for transporting food run out, it will not matter.

But Trudeau and his band of merry dreamers at the UN will tell the World that there is nothing to worry about, we have it all under control. All you Producers have to do is listen to us and do as you are told.

And for the Consumer Nations with spiralling population growth, you can just keep multiplying without any consequences.

Trust us.

Drewski

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Then soon there would be no fish or wildlife left since everyone else would be out there doing it too. That is if you are allowed to still own your guns.

Meh that's too much leg work for most. They will all be doing designer drugs and partying. Then some flu will come through. Wipe out the majority of them and the rest of us will carry on and there will be a noticeable impact on climate change due to the die off.

Either that or its one big simulation we are living in right now!

[gunluvr]

All I know is the Canadian federal government has never had so many bad ideas until The Turd came along.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Agb Crash

This only works in a society where no one is trying to better themselves.

Won't work. In one word GREED. we all want more for ourselves and our children and their children etc....

Another way to argue that, would be that we are so far in debt, trying to achieve that, we have to declare bankruptcy.

Grizz

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by SHEDHEAD

And yet here sit farmers with full bins of certain grains because there is no market demand......

It's a bit more complicated than that. Farmers have watched the prices of the products their grains produce double in the last few years while the prices they're getting for their grain went down. Middleman and processors are taking a bigger cut.

Many are going to sit on it till the prices go up.

[icehunter]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Think of all the hunting and fishing a guy could get in!

Actually none. You will have to go to work at a government owned business everyday to "earn your keep" and that will be after you sweep the street in front of your house every morning.

[Talking moose]

Just a thought.... could people be foreseeing more AI(artificial intelligence) and robotics being so prevalent in the future that there just won’t be enough jobs in the future anyway? I.e kiosks, assembly lines, driverless transport, etc...?
I’ve read that more than once. Makes sense too. What say you?
Farming is a good example. How many farmers did it take to farm a 100 mile by 100 mile piece of land 50 years ago? How many today?

[horsepower]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Just a thought.... could people be foreseeing more AI(artificial intelligence) and robotics being so prevalent in the future that there just won’t be enough jobs in the future anyway? I.e kiosks, assembly lines, driverless transport, etc...?
I’ve read that more than once. Makes sense too. What say you?
Farming is a good example. How many farmers did it take to farm a 100 mile by 100 mile piece of land 50 years ago? How many today?

Yes, there will be more AI and robotics in the future. This is the problem. What if there are more people than there are jobs that need to be done? The current economic model is based on people working, paying taxes, etc.. What happens when large numbers of people are unemployed not from lack of desire to work, but from lack of jobs available? Currently: we manufacture crap products that don't last, that product will be purchased multiple times, jobs are thus required to continue making junk. This is fine until you look at dwindling resources, accumulating piled of used junk, ecological consequences. Then what?

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by horsepower

Yes, there will be more AI and robotics in the future. This is the problem. What if there are more people than there are jobs that need to be done? The current economic model is based on people working, paying taxes, etc.. What happens when large numbers of people are unemployed not from lack of desire to work, but from lack of jobs available? Currently: we manufacture crap products that don't last, that product will be purchased multiple times, jobs are thus required to continue making junk. This is fine until you look at dwindling resources, accumulating piled of used junk, ecological consequences. Then what?

Then the government deploys a man made virus, that wipes out the masses over a period of several years.

BW

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Just a thought.... could people be foreseeing more AI(artificial intelligence) and robotics being so prevalent in the future that there just won’t be enough jobs in the future anyway? I.e kiosks, assembly lines, driverless transport, etc...?
I’ve read that more than once. Makes sense too. What say you?
Farming is a good example. How many farmers did it take to farm a 100 mile by 100 mile piece of land 50 years ago? How many today?

I’ve assumed there’s been relative job losses as Alberta transitioned away from conventional oil wells/exploration to oil sands extraction and oil sands plants will continuously automate more and more of their operations.

If so does Alberta’s oil sector offer much for future labour requirements if oil demand growth drops off and new construction stops. I’ve assumed for a long time now that our oil sands won’t be a great job creator.

That means revenues flow mostly to the companies and to the government and not directly to anything like the numbers of workers in the past.

Government then has to spend the royalty and tax receipts to put the money into the economy to create jobs.

[morinj]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Short version-
The Government pays you a megar sum until death and you live in some sort of government owned facility with no tax, you do not own your house, possibly do not own a vehicle, but you carry no debt load?

I think the Millenials and anyone without a brain in their head will jump all over this latest communist approach to a wonderful life in new canada, but for anyone with life experience this sounds awful.

Can it happen? Or is it just fake news?

I do not have a link, just a lot of rumbling.
That may be indigestion.

Check out the Nesara/Gesera initiative, I believe this may touch on this subject, they make it sound so great but to me sounds like a giant blind fold, wool over the sheep’s eyes!

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Short version-
The Government pays you a megar sum until death and you live in some sort of government owned facility with no tax, you do not own your house, possibly do not own a vehicle, but you carry no debt load?

I do not have a link, just a lot of rumbling.
That may be indigestion.

After being chastised in another thread for not doing so, I Googled this issue. The first two pages were about post-secondary student debt. This doesn't seem like the same thing.

Any other information?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

From mass immigration, to more government control, and complete civil disarmament.

I have been trying to read up on Agenda 2030. I note that its origins go back 30 years at the UN. Why is this suddenly at the forefront of concern?

I cannot find anything in the Agenda about government control and civil disarmament. I'd really appreciate a link so that I can check it out.

Originally Posted by obsessed1

Agenda 2030 will be the complete death of the illusion of freedom we live in now. Unless something is done to turn the tide we are as good as cooked. Not sure where on earth a person could go....personally I would be for all out war instead of laying down to these ideologies.

Again, I would appreciate a link or a clear statement of the problem ideologies. The Agenda itself reads like a "feel-good" policy statement. I note that President Bush signed on to an earlier version. I need some direction to probe deeper but not into the paranoid conspiracy theories. There is a lot of information out there and I'm finding it slow going.

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Sure they talk about ending Poverty and Hunger and making everything Sustainable, but how does this Socialist dogma answer the real problem of new consumers needing the basics of human survival, let alone prosperity?

Again, I need some help here. Why is sustainability a socialist dogma?

[cody j]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

For those (like me) that just can't stand the sound of that POS's voice...
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...set-for-canada

"Seems the idea of using a global health crisis as an excuse to fundamentally alter society didn’t sit well with the public.

Well, that doesn’t mean Trudeau was fully shying away from that idea when it came to speaking to a global audience. A video of the PM speaking to a United Nations meeting at the end of September has started to gain all the wrong kind of attention as people parsed and shared his words over the weekend.

“This pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset,” Trudeau said.

“This is our chance to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems that actually address global challenges like extreme poverty, inequality and climate change.”"

So I guess Blackface is going to decide what’s good for Canada on his own? I don’t remember him campaigning on this issue during the election, no body talked about it during any debates. He said those words, what do they mean exactly and who voted for it?

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Dumb snowflake Millennial chiming in....

I have not heard what you have talked about anywhere but is this not pretty close to what happens already for many people now? You grow old, sell your possessions and home when they can no longer be independent, and live out the rest of your life in some sort of old age home. Hopefully you can saved a bit so you can afford a good one. Someone correct me if I'm totally off base
but if you can't make ends meet I thought the government takes a percentage of all your income and subsidizes the rest, the downside being your will be in some craphole home. I guess the main difference is that you are saying that instead of privately run old age homes you are saying they will be government run homes for all.

If people die with debt that their family has to pay the issue is that they are just a crappy human, not because they are some communist millennial or whatever the new term is nowadays. I could not imagine leaving my family with debt or any work whatsoever, I am hoping that is a common thought for all.

I think you're reading too much Dickens. You don't inherit debt anymore- that's just auntie screwing with you.

[6.5 shooter]

I totally agree.... I want everyone to have exactly the same amount of things.... and all of you with more then 1 firearm, 1 car, 1 fishing boat, ...... To give it all to me, so I can distribute it to those less fortunate then yourselves ....... Seems only fair.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by sk270

After being chastised in another thread for not doing so, I Googled this issue. The first two pages were about post-secondary student debt. This doesn't seem like the same thing.

Any other information?

I believe that there are 2 different ideologies being discussed here. One is a financial reset, proposed by some agencies and the Great Reset, proposed by the WEF.

WEF The Great Reset

https://www.weforum.org/videos/the-g...set-726dedeacb
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

100 Percent Debt Cancellation

https://www.globalpolicy.org/compone...onsidered.html

Both of which, provide great material for the conspiracy world. Many conspiracies begin with a grain of truth and alternative facts.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I believe that there are 2 different ideologies being discussed here. One is a financial reset, proposed by some agencies and the Great Reset, proposed by the WEF.

WEF The Great Reset

https://www.weforum.org/videos/the-g...set-726dedeacb
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

100 Percent Debt Cancellation

https://www.globalpolicy.org/compone...onsidered.html

Both of which, provide great material for the conspiracy world. Many conspiracies begin with a grain of truth and alternative facts.

If you're sitting there, can't afford food or fuel for your vehicle and the mortgage company is foreclosing, that would be the Faint Hope clause. Easy to buy into.

Grizz

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I believe that there are 2 different ideologies being discussed here. One is a financial reset, proposed by some agencies and the Great Reset, proposed by the WEF.
https://www.weforum.org/videos/the-g...set-726dedeacb
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

100 Percent Debt Cancellation

https://www.globalpolicy.org/compone...onsidered.html

Both of which, provide great material for the conspiracy world. Many conspiracies begin with a grain of truth and alternative facts.

Thanks for the information. I agree with your last paragraph. It describes what I found when I originally searched for information about Agenda 2030. Some of the critics sound as if they haven't read it.

I would like to point out to the conspiracy people that the UN and WEF are not the same organization. Agenda 2030 was accepted before Covid-19 and the Great Reset refers specifically to the pandemic.

I certainly don't see a concrete link between debt cancellation and Agenda 2030.

[sk270]

Does anyone else have information about Agenda 2030?

Since others have raised the spectre of socialism, I tried to concentrate on the economic aspect of the declaration, specifically ending poverty and reducing inequality.

Agenda 2030 recognizes the role of the private sector acting alongside the public. It also states that each country is responsible for its own development.

There is nothing about nationalization or communism or fascism. The wording reflects the current situation in Canada's economy. It specifically mentions holding private property as a good.

The document advocates full employment and job creation through entrepreneurship and encouraging business. This is the opposite of socialism, of course.

The Agenda talks about implementing social protection mechanisms for the poor and disadvantaged. We already have these in Canada although there is some debate about their appropriateness or effectiveness. Why would this be a threat to our social order?

I see nothing threatening in this Agenda. What am I missing? Why the vitriol surrounding these plans?