Alberta hospitals straining dangerously under weight of COVID-19, doctors warn

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Following the recommendations helps immensely.

Cheers

Sun

Really! So why then have so many health care workers been forced into isolation. And why has even one died?

And lets not get into people in senors centers. Where workers face the same protocols as nurses and visitors are not allowed under any circumstances.

At least hospital staff getting the virus is somewhat understandable since they have to deal with people from outside the hospital every hour of every day.
But senors homes are in total lock down.

I haven't been allowed to visit my mom since spring and I'm not even allowed to visit my sister because she works in a nursing home.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

How many of those 7 deaths had underlying health issues already? You see you will never know that answer as the government doesn't want us to know

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...rtan-dhp-feeds

[Fur]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Huge sample size. Lol

Haha. Its a case report!

[KinAlberta]

A good read, especially because it is pre-covid-19:

UK Influenza Pandemic Preparedness Strategy 2011

https://assets.publishing.service.go.../dh_131040.pdf


Also interesting:

The 2011 H1N1 Pandemic Fiasco

http://recombinomics.com/News/010111...11_Fiasco.html


- - -

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

You are absolutely right. Shame on people for not doing everything the were supposed to.

I read the other day that 290 health care staff from one Calgary hospital have had to self isolate because, well it must be that they didn't follow the rules it seems.

Since there is no way one can get the Vid if one follows the rules.
That is what you are saying isn't it?

Of course I realize that no one that follows all the rules has ever caught it.

So I have to agree with you. It's totally irresponsible of anyone to get this virus.

I don't know if your being a smart arse or??? but regardless even following so called rules, protocols etc will not guarantee you from getting it but it can prevent or slow down the virus from spreading giving the hospitals and yes our economy a chance to somewhat function....if we choose to not adhere then the virus will spread rapidly and yup...lockdown...restrictions...looks like Manitoba has started to go that direction....

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I'm trying to understand your point here. It's well known that those with underlying health issues are more susceptible to COVID.



Again, what is the point? That they would have died sooner or later anyway so no biggie?



It doesn't take 3 experimental drugs and hospitalization to treat the regular flu. Why can't people understand that the idea is not to overwhelm the healthcare system? Maybe the reason why Canada is doing better than the US is because the majority of Canadians are taking precautions.

I'll try and make this easy for you. They were going to die anyways! Not too many have died that had no underlying health issues.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Outbound

This is data.that needs to be shared in order for people to form opinions.

The data is shared. People either aren’t looking or choose ignore it.

The fact that there are excessive deaths suggests that many wouldn’t have died from regular flu.

There are things the government can control and there are things they can’t. Having schools opened, stores, restaurants, etc is something they can control. People getting together, private parties is something they cannot control. It is known, according to the government, that most of the spread is happening at the get-togethers and parties. If things are getting out of hand, what do people think will happen? Pretty simple, actually, you work with things you can control, ie you shut down restaurants, gyms, etc. In addition to that, in order to compensate for the majority of the cases that happen in private setting, you shut down more of other things that can really be kept open if people just acted accordingly.

A couple of weeks ago they mentioned a wedding with 63 guests and 47 or something cases that were traced to that wedding in less than a week (logic suggests there must have been more cases that were probably traced later tied to the same event). Then there was that birthday party where a couple of dozens people got sick, including the grandpa who was died a week later (sure, it was his choice to attend his grandkid’s party). Perhaps, if there was only grandpa, the family, and a couple of other relatives, the guy would have lived to see another one, but that was his choice. I wonder if the family regrets doing it the way they did. A party to remember, for sure.

Of course, there is spread in schools and other places. They are telling us, however, where most of it comes from - private setting. Are they lying? What are they trying to achieve if they are?

I personally am fine with them letting it run its course as long as there is capacity in the healthcare system. After all, I may have a heart attack, somethjng can go wrong with my kids, my parents, etc. That capacity includes space, equipment, and, last but not least, people. Heck, I, personally, don’t even care if they stop all elective and non-urgent procedures since I currently don’t need one. Yet, I understand that many people do and may really suffer if they don’t get it done; some may even die. For this reason, we opted not to attend my kid’s friend’s birthday party, for example, where only 15 or so people were supposed to be present. Other little things like that. Nothing major, really.

[Simplefarmer]

It would appear to the average person that since the first time we started dealing with this "boogie man", not much has changed...

The deaths attributed to this have been largely the seniors with underlying issues occupying close quarters in senior / assisted living centers... Now, we are dealing with this again and truthfully have they really done anything to address the real issue of where the majority of deaths will come from again ? Not to my knowledge, nor much that I have read states these assisted living facilities are any better than this spring...

So after nearly crippling our economy, providing our future tax paying citizens with debt that can't be erased, I ask those who feel a poorly worn surgical mask which is intended for single use and social distancing will do a bunch...

Reminds me a lot of the great peanut debate in our schools....

Jim

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

How come whenever something doesn't go right its immediately the current politicians fault. What would have you done? Are you considering all of the implications of anything or just at one slice of the problem? Its really easy looking back and seeing where someone went wrong, its much harder to make decisions that will have a positive outcome when the direction of something new like this is unpredictable. Let me know the time and place of a 160 class Whitetail for Wednesday please, or if you don't you have bungled and are a PETA wannabe.

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Yes there is a time and a place to complain ,but if things are so bad and so many people have to knock the government why don't you try running and doing a better job, it's a free country you could even become Prime Minister if you tried hard enough, stay safe.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I am at a loss on your response to what I wrote. Kenny was dropped into the driver seat of a car spinning out of control. I cannot imagine anyone that would want to be in that position including myself. Do I think I could do better? Nope. When you look at wat he has done, is doing the best he can in the situation and sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. So instead of throwing shade at the guy any time you feel that he did a poor job, consider the fact that he has a ton more information and experts to consult than you do and is doing whatever he can to get us out of the poop storm we are in. In my career I used to love the guys that would sit back and criticize other peoples work just to watch them crumble when the spotlight was on them.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Austin

Nope,,, family friend is an ER doc in Edmonton... says is same - not strained or overly busy than usual.

He says Covid seems to be impacting ambulance drivers and ambulance techs. Many are out due to possible contact (not contracted but potential contact with a patient that was potentially positive)

Same here. My nurse friends say the same(work at 2 of the 3 hospitals) and I ask them for an update every spike. They would tell me to hide in the house if it was that bad or got bad. Crickets from them for 7 months and counting.


This aint some social media/news stuff, comes from people who are on the front lines. Yet we have other front liners putting out to the media the fear factor side.


Now who are we to believe?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Actually a false statement.

Friends of ours is an example. Hubby caught Covid at work. Felt bad and got tested. Was positive. As soon as he felt ill he hung out in the basement. His family looked after him. Made sure he had stuff to eat and drink. Wore masks when coming to see him in the basement and he wore a mask also. They all washed their hands well. His dishes went straight into the dishwasher. None of the other 4 in the household caught it.

Following the recommendations helps immensely.

Cheers

Sun

Actuall sun, you have absolutely no clue of what you speak of, you do a good job of pretending though. I would tell you the facts of covid but your belief that you already know everything will prohibit you from comprehending anything I tell you.

If anyone else has a question about covid and would like to ask someone who actually has first hand knowledge that was not coming from a friend of a distant relative, feel free to ask me.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I'll try and make this easy for you. They were going to die anyways! Not too many have died that had no underlying health issues.

I assumed that's what you meant, just wanted to see you state your position.

[Outbound]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Again, what is the point? That they would have died sooner or later anyway so no biggie?

No. For frig's sake, nobody is saying just let the old and vulnerable die. The point is the question of destroying economies, killing jobs, delaying/upsetting education, infringing on freedoms etc in order to "save" people who already can't be saved or who have a low chance of survival beyond the year. It's basic triage.

The lefties like the throw out "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". In the case of covid, the average age of death caused by it is something like 82 or 83. Typical life expectancy in Canada is about 80 years. People dying of covid have already exceeded the average life expectancy and will be unlikely to survive a nasty bout of a cold or flu, nevermind covid. Never before in history have we quarantined the healthy to protect the weak. It needs to be the other way around. They many need to get back to work and normal life. The few need to be locked down.

This is a clear cut case of lockdown the elderly and vulnerable. No visitors other than people who work with them. No going outside. No socializing at all. Isolate and continually test those who work with them, like 3 or 4 tests a day. Immediately lockdown any who test positive.

Allow the rest of society to get on with their lives as usual. 99%+ will suffer no more than minor symptoms if they catch it.

As it is, the average person has a better chance of dying on your commute tomorrow than dying of covid.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Actually a false statement.

Friends of ours is an example. Hubby caught Covid at work. Felt bad and got tested. Was positive. As soon as he felt ill he hung out in the basement. His family looked after him. Made sure he had stuff to eat and drink. Wore masks when coming to see him in the basement and he wore a mask also. They all washed their hands well. His dishes went straight into the dishwasher. None of the other 4 in the household caught it.

Following the recommendations helps immensely.

Cheers

Sun

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Actuall sun, you have absolutely no clue of what you speak of, you do a good job of pretending though. I would tell you the facts of covid but your belief that you already know everything will prohibit you from comprehending anything I tell you.

If anyone else has a question about covid and would like to ask someone who actually has first hand knowledge that was not coming from a friend of a distant relative, feel free to ask me.

One of my direct co-workers tested positive for COVID-19, and by direct I mean someone that I work with and not just a family friend. Here is his story.

Get's his annual flu shot on a Friday and 2 days later he has chills/body aches (he thinks that is is a side effect of shot). Fills out his daily online health form at work on Monday (which we all do before our shift), checks off "Y" to one of the symptoms. Needs to take 5 days from work and get COVID test. Goes for COVID test Monday, and symptoms disappear by Tuesday so he still believes that it was from flu shot. Four days later he gets informed that he had tested positive, even though he was completely asymtomatic. Now he is really concerned as he lives in a multi-generational household with wife, 3 teenage kids and elderly parents. He goes straight into isolation, stressed right out thinking that he had infected his family. They finally all get their negative results back a few days later, and he can breathe easier.

The moral of his story, is that he has no idea where he may have contacted it, did not go into isolation right away as he assumed that the symptoms were the results of his annual flu shot (which is completely understandable), and nobody in the household contracted or died of COVID-19. No masks were worn until his positive result, and he holed up in one room after his result and his quarantine period ended.

On the job and outside the home he follows all safety protocols (mask, distancing, hand sanitizing etc.) as it is a mandatory guideline at work, and he is concerned about his aging parents.

Are masks the end all be all, who knows? Maybe good hygiene and living in sanitary conditions makes a difference as well.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Outbound

No. For frig's sake, nobody is saying just let the old and vulnerable die. The point is the question of destroying economies, killing jobs, delaying/upsetting education, infringing on freedoms etc in order to "save" people who already can't be saved or who have a low chance of survival beyond the year. It's basic triage.

The lefties like the throw out "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". In the case of covid, the average age of death caused by it is something like 82 or 83. Typical life expectancy in Canada is about 80 years. People dying of covid have already exceeded the average life expectancy and will be unlikely to survive a nasty bout of a cold or flu, nevermind covid. Never before in history have we quarantined the healthy to protect the weak. It needs to be the other way around. They many need to get back to work and normal life. The few need to be locked down.

This is a clear cut case of lockdown the elderly and vulnerable. No visitors other than people who work with them. No going outside. No socializing at all. Isolate and continually test those who work with them, like 3 or 4 tests a day. Immediately lockdown any who test positive.

Allow the rest of society to get on with their lives as usual. 99%+ will suffer no more than minor symptoms if they catch it.

As it is, the average person has a better chance of dying on your commute tomorrow than dying of covid.

So simple but yet so hard for many to understand.

[GENINC]

What happened to "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members"? I guess somebody's job or convenience is worth more than a life now. Some people complain about some numbers on a governments balance sheet and scream how it seemingly is the decline of our nation. When we are ready to throw the vulnerable under the bus for our wellbeing or convenience, then that's a sign of a nation's decline.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Actuall sun, you have absolutely no clue of what you speak of, you do a good job of pretending though. I would tell you the facts of covid but your belief that you already know everything will prohibit you from comprehending anything I tell you.

If anyone else has a question about covid and would like to ask someone who actually has first hand knowledge that was not coming from a friend of a distant relative, feel free to ask me.

Unless you have had Covid spread rampant in your home... right now we just have experiences of friends and family. In this instance a friend and they followed guidelines and no one else in the household got Covid.

So stating it’s everywhere and nothing we can do is patently false.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

One of my direct co-workers tested positive for COVID-19, and by direct I mean someone that I work with and not just a family friend. Here is his story.

Get's his annual flu shot on a Friday and 2 days later he has chills/body aches (he thinks that is is a side effect of shot). Fills out his daily online health form at work on Monday (which we all do before our shift), checks off "Y" to one of the symptoms. Needs to take 5 days from work and get COVID test. Goes for COVID test Monday, and symptoms disappear by Tuesday so he still believes that it was from flu shot. Four days later he gets informed that he had tested positive, even though he was completely asymtomatic. Now he is really concerned as he lives in a multi-generational household with wife, 3 teenage kids and elderly parents. He goes straight into isolation, stressed right out thinking that he had infected his family. They finally all get their negative results back a few days later, and he can breathe easier.

The moral of his story, is that he has no idea where he may have contacted it, did not go into isolation right away as he assumed that the symptoms were the results of his annual flu shot (which is completely understandable), and nobody in the household contracted or died of COVID-19. No masks were worn until his positive result, and he holed up in one room after his result and his quarantine period ended.

On the job and outside the home he follows all safety protocols (mask, distancing, hand sanitizing etc.) as it is a mandatory guideline at work, and he is concerned about his aging parents.

Are masks the end all be all, who knows? Maybe good hygiene and living in sanitary conditions makes a difference as well.

I agree it’s definitely not perfect but studies say it helps. Being asymptomatic may of helped him thank god. Having elder relatives get sick would of been tragic. Happy outcome and happy to hear.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Unless you have had Covid spread rampant in your home... right now we just have experiences of friends and family. In this instance a friend and they followed guidelines and no one else in the household got Covid.

So stating it’s everywhere and nothing we can do is patently false.

Cheers

Sun

I have, now what ya got to say?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Really! So why then have so many health care workers been forced into isolation. And why has even one died?

And lets not get into people in senors centers. Where workers face the same protocols as nurses and visitors are not allowed under any circumstances.

At least hospital staff getting the virus is somewhat understandable since they have to deal with people from outside the hospital every hour of every day.
But senors homes are in total lock down.

I haven't been allowed to visit my mom since spring and I'm not even allowed to visit my sister because she works in a nursing home.

If a healthcare worker is exposed then isolation makes sense. It would be horrible if they continued working and in turn exposed the medically vulnerable to Covid.

Sorry to hear about your mom. I know for us, seniors have 2 visitors allowed in the building. Everyone hand disinfects. Everyone visiting social distances and wears masks. Other relatives could visit outside, social distancing and wearing masks.

There is a fine line between short term medical lockdowns for seniors versus effective isolated imprisonment.

What’s the name of the place? Maybe they’re just being unreasonable.

Rough for seniors. Places around here seem to have managed better than your experience. Each place can have unique rules.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I have, now what ya got to say?

You had a bad experience following cleanliness, isolation and social distancing plus masks.

Others have faired far better.

Everyone can have a unique experience and or be better at following guidelines.

Who knows. I say it can help. You are adamant it doesn’t

Go figure. We can’t agree again. Unfortunately you live in Edmonchuk. Otherwise I would hope we could perch fish and agree you can have the day’s catch.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by GENINC

What happened to "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members"? I guess somebody's job or convenience is worth more than a life now. Some people complain about some numbers on a governments balance sheet and scream how it seemingly is the decline of our nation. When we are ready to throw the vulnerable under the bus for our wellbeing or convenience, then that's a sign of a nation's decline.

I'm sure that nobody has said or insinuated those exact words.

However as a nation we need to strike a balance. Around 7 million people in Canada are 65 or older. Although it was hard for me to believe, 90% of those have one or more chronic disease or condition, none of which can be cured only treated. These people will never get better, and I'm not trying to be cold or callous as I have good friends and my own parents well within this demographic. I'm only a decade plus from being in this demographic myself.

If I were in this demographic and had any underlying conditions susceptible to COVID I would be doing my utmost to keep myself safe, not relying on others to keep me safe. I would purchase online as much as possible, keep my social circle under the current guidelines, respect and abide by all of the current guidelines, etc.

Where the populace/government comes in is to ensure that those who cannot help themselves are fully protected with every safeguard available. In other words, keep the sickness out of the extended, continuing and long term care homes. Not to mention critical care sites such as hospitals and clinics. With the technology and guidelines available in healthcare in regards to healthcare in Canada, there is no excuse. It's absolutely reprehensible that so many outbreaks have been allowed in Canada and so many were allowed to perish while in care.

This is what can and will allow those most susceptible to complications associated with COVID from becoming seriously ill or succumbing to COVID-19. Not locking down an entire planet. Some countries i.e. Singapore have done just this, and although they have had nearly 60K covid cases confirmed, they have only had 28 deaths reported thus far.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Unless you have had Covid spread rampant in your home... right now we just have experiences of friends and family. In this instance a friend and they followed guidelines and no one else in the household got Covid.

So stating it’s everywhere and nothing we can do is patently false.

Cheers

Sun

Hey, don't waste your time, you're being trolled, He's a dementia expert, a Covid expert, legal expert and an expert on just about everything on the planet. Don't believe me? Just ask him.
His forum name should be changed to Thread Killer though. He's been involved with a crap load of threads that have been closed with his post being the last one before closure.

It's gonna happen to this one too likely now that's he's trolling here, just watch.

Can you say TROLL?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I'm sure that nobody has said or insinuated those exact words.

However as a nation we need to strike a balance. Around 7 million people in Canada are 65 or older. Although it was hard for me to believe, 90% of those have one or more chronic disease or condition, none of which can be cured only treated. These people will never get better, and I'm not trying to be cold or callous as I have good friends and my own parents well within this demographic. I'm only a decade plus from being in this demographic myself.

If I were in this demographic and had any underlying conditions susceptible to COVID I would be doing my utmost to keep myself safe, not relying on others to keep me safe. I would purchase online as much as possible, keep my social circle under the current guidelines, respect and abide by all of the current guidelines, etc.

Where the populace/government comes in is to ensure that those who cannot help themselves are fully protected with every safeguard available. In other words, keep the sickness out of the extended, continuing and long term care homes. Not to mention critical care sites such as hospitals and clinics.

This is what can and will allow those most susceptible to complications associated with COVID from becoming seriously ill or succumbing to COVID-19. Not locking down an entire planet. Some countries i.e. Singapore have done just this, and although they have had nearly 60K covid cases confirmed, they have only had 28 deaths reported thus far.

Singapore got in very early and shut down access and was highly effective at contact tracing. They still had their blips.

Your strategy may work if so many seniors didn’t need to rely on others for care and essential services. Not all seniors are mobile with strong cognitive functions till they pass.

I see the plan to not shut down but rather follow rules. If people did, seniors would be safe and the economy could chug along.

Sadly some have private gatherings which is the primary cause of secondary spread.

With luck a vaccine will help seniors in the near future

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Hey, don't waste your time, you're being trolled, He's a dementia expert, a Covid expert, legal expert and an expert on just about everything on the planet. Don't believe me? Just ask him.
His forum name should be changed to Thread Killer though. He's been involved with a crap load of threads that have been closed with his post being the last one before closure.

It's gonna happen to this one too likely now that's he's trolling here, just watch.

Can you say TROLL?

Thanks

Will keep that in mind.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Singapore got in very early and shut down access and was highly effective at contact tracing. They still had their blips.

Your strategy may work if so many seniors didn’t need to rely on others for care and essential services. Not all seniors are mobile with strong cognitive functions till they pass.

I see the plan to not shut down but rather follow rules. If people did, seniors would be safe and the economy could chug along.

Sadly some have private gatherings which is the primary cause of secondary spread.

With luck a vaccine will help seniors in the near future

Hence why I stated the following:

"Where the populace/government comes in is to ensure that those who cannot help themselves are fully protected with every safeguard available. In other words, keep the sickness out of the extended, continuing and long term care homes. Not to mention critical care sites such as hospitals and clinics."

[igorot]

I think we are barking on the wrong tree. Why don't we protest on our educational system? Well, I can be an expert on anything else by just reading the article on Facebook or whatever and defunct all arguments to all professionals who spent ten years or even more to qualify for their opinion.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You had a bad experience following cleanliness, isolation and social distancing plus masks.

Others have faired far better.

Everyone can have a unique experience and or be better at following guidelines.

Who knows. I say it can help. You are adamant it doesn’t

Go figure. We can’t agree again. Unfortunately you live in Edmonchuk. Otherwise I would hope we could perch fish and agree you can have the day’s catch.

Here’s what I’ve learned about covid, young children make excellent little carriers with little to no symptoms. They love to snuggle with their mom, play with the dog and have a tendency to not pay much attention to what they stick in their mouth. They can be carrying the virus for days when they are most contagious and no one around is the wiser. Now add to that a fairly active and healthy family that show extremely mild symptoms and you have a perfect environment for the virus to spread in the home. If I hadn’t lost my taste and smell, there’s no way you could have convinced me I should go get tested.

I could go through how the entire thing went down in detail, right from my first symptom up to today where I am almost back to normal but that’s a lot of typing. What I will say is that I never go out socializing outside of fishing and trips to my cabin pretty much, we have had no large family gatherings, we’re in Edmonton where masks in public have been mandatory for months and my wife is a hand satanizing fanatic. Kids can make all the difference in the world.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

Hence why I stated the following:

"Where the populace/government comes in is to ensure that those who cannot help themselves are fully protected with every safeguard available. In other words, keep the sickness out of the extended, continuing and long term care homes. Not to mention critical care sites such as hospitals and clinics."

Cool. Agreed.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here’s what I’ve learned about covid, young children make excellent little carriers with little to no symptoms. They love to snuggle with their mom, play with the dog and have a tendency to not pay much attention to what they stick in their mouth. They can be carrying the virus for days when they are most contagious and no one around is the wiser. Now add to that a fairly active and healthy family that show extremely mild symptoms and you have a perfect environment for the virus to spread in the home. If I hadn’t lost my taste and smell, there’s no way you could have convinced me I should go get tested.

I could go through how the entire thing went down in detail, right from my first symptom up to today where I am almost back to normal but that’s a lot of typing. What I will say is that I never go out socializing outside of fishing and trips to my cabin pretty much, we have had no large family gatherings, we’re in Edmonton where masks in public have been mandatory for months and my wife is a hand satanizing fanatic. Kids can make all the difference in the world.

Agreed. Little snots. Lol. Have had my share...keeping the home clean is hard.

One thing to note is current evidence isn’t showing rapid spread in schools. The private parties at home etc is where the kids are getting it.

Hope you’ve all recovered and don’t have lingering health problems as a result of you all catching Covid.

Fingers crossed for y’all.