Alberta Population growth

[MRLEE2uall]

it is getting busier out there every year, not at all like it used to be.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Talleyrandophile

Given the demographic of people moving to Canada these days, I doubt as many as 5% will be very outdoorsy in any capacity...

One problem with bringing non outdoorsy people is they'll eventually vote away our hunting.

[Retired to hunt]

Originally Posted by Pekan

One problem with bringing non outdoorsy people is they'll eventually vote away our hunting.

That is likely. It has already happened in most of the world

As long as hunting remains a selfish activity hunting will be threatened by population growth. Public access is the first to go but eventually even private property hunting will be criminalized. The wealthy will be able to for a period but not forever. The Americans are doing a good job of recruiting new hunters in some states. I see very little of that in Canada.

[32-40win]

I do wonder with one thing I'm seeing as to how much of an indicator it may be towards predation, is something that is going on in the next 2-3 weeks in the 300 zones. AB gov was wanting to to some form of birth control program on the wildies and the horse folk are going to be doing their own flights for a count vs the AB gov count flights which start PDQ. Horse folk will be flying after the gov't flights, about end of Jan.
The horse folk contend that the survival rate of foals is so low that they don't need that program. What I've been watching is the HAWS vids from 55 cameras in the Williams Crk valley in WMU318, they have some really good vids that capture a lot of stuff. They publish most of them on FB, some on YT. There aren't a lot of last year's foals around, maybe 8? vs say 100 horses they capture on camera, I didn't count, and it is representative of an area that is only 30mi x 30mi at best, and a small portion of it at that, say 15mi x 3-4 mi, and that may be pretty generous. The north end of that valley is a crossroads for two others that run north into the James river, Limestone and the Ya-Ha are just a few miles west.The number of bears and wolves in that valley will no doubt fluctuate, but, there were 6 grizz in there this summer, 3 adults, one sub adult and 2 cubs ready to leave mama come this spring. They caught 4 of those on a dead horse, and a couple of random vids, and there are probably at least 2 packs of wolves frequenting the area, they catch the odd cat there, can't speak to numbers on them. I know I could hear 3 packs from what would be the north end of that valley and a couple of miles west years ago.
I don't know if the horses can be considered somewhat representative towards the moose, elk and deer survival rates in that zone as to how it may compare to others. Plenty of prego horses there, damned few foals surviving, and not a lot of 2 yrs olds either.
I just find it interesting to see what they see there, and it makes me wonder. Results of their flights shud be out in late Feb or early March, could be interesting to see what they see.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by wind drift

Please provide the Google link for Alberta grizzly carrying capacity. Thanks!

I doubt the carrying capacity of Grizzlies has been done. But there are studies ongoing that can give you the bigger picture about grizzlies in Alberta. These studies have been going on for years.

Here is a link that is excellent to educate yourself. Too many people think they know this or that but really don't have the factual info to make those conclusions. Hundreds of articles and pages of info.

Best to be educated before deciding anything.

https://friresearch.ca/program/grizzly-bear-program

There are some quick notes about carrying capacity of grizzlies in Alberta within FRI's website.

https://friresearch.ca/publications/...-grizzly-bears

[Red Bullets]

It was thought that hunting would decline and not be done in the first wave of settlers during the 1890's.

Interesting that back at the beginning of the last century (1900's) there had to be laws created because the new settlers and tourist hunters were killing all the game. When the first passenger trains came through it brought in many tourist hunters too.

From 1906 to 1913 there was no open season on buffalo, or the females of elk, moose, deer, antelope, sheep or the young of all big game. A couple years they only had a one day big game hunting seasons.

If they hadn't enforced this law we wouldn't be hunting today. Many settlers made the comment that it was rare to see a deer or other big game during those years.

With today's human population growth I wouldn't be surprised if they had to create similar hunting restrictions. If they closed the season for a couple years the number of hunters would decline considerably. Many urban hunters would lose interest. Many of the the 'new' immigrants hunt because they have a romanticized notion about hunting. Not because they have a family hunting heritage.

[NCC]

I went sheep hunting for the first time when I was 13 which was 1983. For the next 6-8 years, we always saw elk at the licks just through the gap. By 1990 it was rare to see any ungulates in there other than sheep. The wolves and grizzly bears pretty much wiped them out. There is an abundance of grass in there (the government has wiped out the buck brush a couple of times), not many horses, no First Nation hunters, and I've never seen anyone pack a moose or elk out of there, so the only other thing I can think of that would be limited the number of moose, elk and deer is predators.

Government sponsored wolf poisoning campaigns (I think 3 between 1920 and 1970) knocked back the predator numbers and really helped the ungulates (and the hunters). Look what the wolves have done around Yellowstone. I know it's an unpopular position but I'll all for controlling wolf numbers by whatever means necessary.

I think we need to focus less on the number of hunters and more on encouraging our government to increase hunting opportunities. All of the super hunters are going to jump up and tell me that the game is still there for those who are willing to work for it but we'd have more hunters and more support if some of the new entrants to the sport had more success. I also think it would be better for hunters and landowners if there was more game available in our vast public lands instead of concentrating all of the hunters around farm land.

On the topic of farmers (and I am one), the practice of knocking down every tree, wiping out old shelter belts and filling in all of the sloughs has also restricted the amount of game in the country. It's getting harder and harder for the deer, elk and moose to find a place to hide until they mature.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by NCC

I went sheep hunting for the first time when I was 13 which was 1983. For the next 6-8 years, we always saw elk at the licks just through the gap. By 1990 it was rare to see any ungulates in there other than sheep. The wolves and grizzly bears pretty much wiped them out. There is an abundance of grass in there (the government has wiped out the buck brush a couple of times), not many horses, no First Nation hunters, and I've never seen anyone pack a moose or elk out of there, so the only other thing I can think of that would be limited the number of moose, elk and deer is predators.

Government sponsored wolf poisoning campaigns (I think 3 between 1920 and 1970) knocked back the predator numbers and really helped the ungulates (and the hunters). Look what the wolves have done around Yellowstone. I know it's an unpopular position but I'll all for controlling wolf numbers by whatever means necessary.

I think we need to focus less on the number of hunters and more on encouraging our government to increase hunting opportunities. All of the super hunters are going to jump up and tell me that the game is still there for those who are willing to work for it but we'd have more hunters and more support if some of the new entrants to the sport had more success. I also think it would be better for hunters and landowners if there was more game available in our vast public lands instead of concentrating all of the hunters around farm land.

On the topic of farmers (and I am one), the practice of knocking down every tree, wiping out old shelter belts and filling in all of the sloughs has also restricted the amount of game in the country. It's getting harder and harder for the deer, elk and moose to find a place to hide until they mature.

While I concur with most of what you state, I don't understand the logic of the need to "focus less on the number of hunters
and more our Gov.'t to increase hunting opportunities". . Seems to me those two factors work in unison, along with habitat decrease, predator increases, disease mortality, decreasing access opportunities etc. . I fail to see how we can increase hunting opportunities without first dealing with the other contributing factors.
The "I want it now" thing isn't working, can't work and never will work. Mainly because there is no concrete plan in place. Until a viable plan shows up and gets implemeted..well, who knows what the situation will be like by then.

[Big Grey Wolf]

If I remember correctly the number of hunters in Alberta went way up to 125,000 in last couple years, believe now over 400,000 draws submitted. Number of fishermen dropped way off from high of over 200,000 to near to 150,000.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

If I remember correctly the number of hunters in Alberta went way up to 125,000 in last couple years, believe now over 400,000 draws submitted. Number of fishermen dropped way off from high of over 200,000 to near to 150,000.

Hunting, like the Fishing. is likely going that way as well. Considering the low number of Lakes we have in Alberta that hold populations of the most sought after species, we ran out of fish. Thus the tags , non retention and slot limits. It causes people to lose interest in a once viable venue.

Hunting, with the regs and Game management set up the way they are, is not sustainable for long. There is just not enough resource to meet the demand
for much longer.
How we can allow one family to legally harvest eight or so BG animals, or more per household is well beyond my comprehension. Multiply that by 2 or 3 thousand or more and it's easy to see the path we are on.
Of course there will always those that say that there is enough of everything now, so whats the problem ? It probably won't be long befor they find their answer. The same went for our fishing

[-JR-]

With the increase of people buying fishing licences and filling up provincial campgrounds 3 months before the camping season even opens . Why are they not expanding the camp grounds , and making the boat launches more safe . When was the last time you seen a screened in fish cleaning station at a provincial campgrounds ?
Pigeon lake has miles of un touched land that you can see posted as you drive to the front entrance. Why are they not expanding and making more camp stalls there so people can go camping when they want . Your average stall goes for $40 a day . And we all no there is no maid service between users . And they are not using the money fixing the stalls .So why not use that money to expand rather than giving it to the provincial treasurer ?