The Great American Ammunition Conspiracy

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

A good read regarding ammunition shortages.

https://prospect.org/economy/great-a...on-conspiracy/

[Grizzly Adams1]

I don't see a conspiracy, I've been following this on a another forum, people are hoarding the stuff to a point where some could keep the Ukrainian military going for a few months. People are scared and they have every reason to be.

Grizz

[270person]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

People are scared and they have every reason to be.

Grizz

What are the reasons other than the mindless factions down there freaking out every time a Democrat gets elected president? "Omg..Kennedys going to take away our guns." Omg...Carters going to take away our guns." "Omg...Clinton....Obama.....Biden are going to take away our guns." "Waaaaaa."

Sometimes Darwin was wrong and the good old US of A never misses a good opportunity to freak. They probably buy more guns so they can hunt down those dastardly baby eaters hiding in pizza shop basements. Hahaha.

[CaberTosser]

People buying larger quantities surely is a contributing factor. Consider too recent commodity increases for copper too, those raw materials aren’t getting any cheaper. As more people increase their ‘emergency stockpiles’, that effects commodity prices too. The electric vehicle market is a large driver of the surge on copper, and that increased need won’t be going away anytime soon.

That said, there are lots more manufacturers than the monster companies under Vista’s corporate umbrella, there’s Hornady, Barnes, Magtech, Black Hills, Sig, Fiocchi, Norma, Lapua, RUAG, etc. It’s not a monopoly or duopoly by a long shot.

[saskbooknut]

Reasons ammo supplies disrupted -
Remington went bankrupt, shut down 2+ years
RIO shut down US production
Covid shut down European ammo makers
Kent, Aguila, RST, Challenger, Score, all depend on Euro components - I'm sure that I missed some
Transportation disrupted
Container shipping costs up 3-10 fold
Raw Plastic supplies, sheet steel and brass stock in short supply
Oh, and hoarding by US consumers

[IronNoggin]

Has anyone here looked at the last couple year's of firearms sales Stateside?
If not, you should.
The numbers are staggering.
And those toys need to be fed...

My Brother is a federally registered dealer down there.
He suggests while there is "some" hoarding going on, the main reasons for shortages are simply folks buying ammo for their latest toys.

Our Canadian market is inconsequential in comparison.

Nog

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by 270person

What are the reasons other than the mindless factions down there freaking out every time a Democrat gets elected president? "Omg..Kennedys going to take away our guns." Omg...Carters going to take away our guns." "Omg...Clinton....Obama.....Biden are going to take away our guns." "Waaaaaa."

Sometimes Darwin was wrong and the good old US of A never misses a good opportunity to freak. They probably buy more guns so they can hunt down those dastardly baby eaters hiding in pizza shop basements. Hahaha.

I’d rather have it then be complaining because I don’t. If you don’t buy it someone else will. I’d say there’s more to the shortage than just a democrat on Pennsylvania Avenue.

[270person]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I’d rather have it then be complaining because I don’t. If you don’t buy it someone else will. I’d say there’s more to the shortage than just a democrat on Pennsylvania Avenue.

The 3 prime reasons for the record rise in firearms sales in 2020 are said to be political division, racial division, and covid. Covid concerns have waned to a large degree but the economic burdens and issues created because of it will be around for some time I'd think.

Couple of excerpts from a decent article below.

Surges in U.S. firearm sales have in recent decades been predictably driven by events sparking fears of impending gun-control legislation, such as the election of a Democratic president or a spate of mass shootings, federal gun background check data show. Industry experts and academics who study gun ownership say such surges came largely among the gun-industry’s core base of white, male and politically conservative customers who often already owned one or multiple guns.

Historically, white males are overwhelmingly the biggest group buying guns in the United States. Nearly half of white men in America own a gun, compared to about a quarter of nonwhite men, according to a 2017 study by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center.

There’s not enough data to confirm whether those demographics have substantially changed with this year’s rush of gun-buying, three academic experts on the gun industry told Reuters in interviews. But it’s clear that deep political and racial divisions in this tumultuous year are driving up firearm sales, said Florida State University public health professor Benjamin Dowd-Arrow. In these tense times, he said, buyers across the ideological spectrum view themselves as the “good guys” protecting themselves from “bad guys.”

“So all the ‘good guys’ need to go out and buy a gun,” he said

Full link is here. http://https://www.nbcnews.com/busin...ction-n1243510

[huntinstuff]

Hoarding in the US


My friend in Tyler Texas sent me a picture and a video

The picture was of his shed, which held 1 million rounds of ammo....

The video was of his neighbors quanset. He was moving pallets of ammo. He bought 10 million rounds of ammo...

Two retired guys in Texas. 11 million rounds of ammo.

Tells you something.....

[Twisted Canuck]

Tells me as a friend of yours I'm being weak.

Doing the best I can though!

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by 270person

The 3 prime reasons for the record rise in firearms sales in 2020 are said to be political division, racial division, and covid. Covid concerns have waned to a large degree but the economic burdens and issues created because of it will be around for some time I'd think.

Couple of excerpts from a decent article below.

Surges in U.S. firearm sales have in recent decades been predictably driven by events sparking fears of impending gun-control legislation, such as the election of a Democratic president or a spate of mass shootings, federal gun background check data show. Industry experts and academics who study gun ownership say such surges came largely among the gun-industry’s core base of white, male and politically conservative customers who often already owned one or multiple guns.

Historically, white males are overwhelmingly the biggest group buying guns in the United States. Nearly half of white men in America own a gun, compared to about a quarter of nonwhite men, according to a 2017 study by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center.

There’s not enough data to confirm whether those demographics have substantially changed with this year’s rush of gun-buying, three academic experts on the gun industry told Reuters in interviews. But it’s clear that deep political and racial divisions in this tumultuous year are driving up firearm sales, said Florida State University public health professor Benjamin Dowd-Arrow. In these tense times, he said, buyers across the ideological spectrum view themselves as the “good guys” protecting themselves from “bad guys.”

“So all the ‘good guys’ need to go out and buy a gun,” he said

Full link is here. http://https://www.nbcnews.com/busin...ction-n1243510

I don’t deny politics plays a roll, I simply stated I think there is more to it than just that. You literally started your reply stating that. Forgive me im also very skeptical of the media as they only report on what they want and spin it however they can to further their agenda. As someone already mentioned Remington going bankrupt did not help with loaded ammo or components. Add in an already tight market, high demand with less raw materials and increasing prices of those raw materials all plays a larger roll than the media who turns everything political will admit.

[270person]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I don’t deny politics plays a roll, I simply stated I think there is more to it than just that. You literally started your reply stating that. Forgive me im also very skeptical of the media as they only report on what they want and spin it however they can to further their agenda. As someone already mentioned Remington going bankrupt did not help with loaded ammo or components. Add in an already tight market, high demand with less raw materials and increasing prices of those raw materials all plays a larger roll than the media who turns everything political will admit.

No media slant in that article whatsoever and yes there's more than just politics involved but that still doesn't change the fact that large spikes in firearms purchases occur every time a Dem pres is elected. Every one of the top 3 causes for it in 2020 speak to fear and paranoia. Bottom line.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Hoarding in the US





My friend in Tyler Texas sent me a picture and a video



The picture was of his shed, which held 1 million rounds of ammo....



The video was of his neighbors quanset. He was moving pallets of ammo. He bought 10 million rounds of ammo...



Two retired guys in Texas. 11 million rounds of ammo.



Tells you something.....

Yeah it tells me that with 11 million rounds, shot placement doesn't matter cuz the volume of lead being put down range will simply scare the target to death!

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Hoarding in the US


My friend in Tyler Texas sent me a picture and a video

The picture was of his shed, which held 1 million rounds of ammo....

The video was of his neighbors quanset. He was moving pallets of ammo. He bought 10 million rounds of ammo...

Two retired guys in Texas. 11 million rounds of ammo.

Tells you something.....

Hah, my sister lives just south of Tyler in Bullard! Its humid there, I'd want better than a garden shed for storage, something climate controlled.

If those guys could whittle themselves down to a mere 100K rounds each, they might be able to make a handsome profit on the rest, provided they bought prior to the price spike.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by 270person

No media slant in that article whatsoever and yes there's more than just politics involved but that still doesn't change the fact that large spikes in firearms purchases occur every time a Dem pres is elected. Every one of the top 3 causes for it in 2020 speak to fear and paranoia. Bottom line.

Keep telling yourself that.

[270person]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Keep telling yourself that.

Dont have to convince myself. The numbers are well documented to back up the causes.

[elkhunter11]

Politics/legislation effects firearms sales in Canada as well as in the USA, when the restrictions started on the semi autos, the sales of similar rifles not specifically listed, increased dramatically. There are a lot of rifles that sold for the simple reason that they aren't restricted. And if you look at the prices of antique status handguns, they have risen to crazy levels, because of the antique status. As for ammunition and reloading components, there is huge hoarding here in Canada as well, talking to some of the vendors, sales are way up, with some people buying $10-$20,000 of ammunition or components at a time. It doesn't matter where people are located, they are buying what they can, where they can, while they can, and they are paying high prices to get it. Between covid effecting supply chains, manufactures not selling certain products to the public because of military contracts, or not selling components, because they are all going into factory ammunition, we have severe shortages, that will not be resolved anytime soon.

[waldedw]

That article was posted on the TS.Com before x-mass and beat to death by the members there, our friends to the south have blamed the hoarders and everyone from Biden to trump to the Russians and the greed of Vista and Olin depending on the day.

IMHO it has to due with the world economy in general everything is up 35% plus shortage of raw materials, shipping cost and hording all rolled into 1, the perfect storm, to go along with a monopoly by 2 companies.

It is going to hurt the clay bird shooters and small gun clubs the most as this is the time of year for the start of the registered shoots, I have been in on 2 virtual meetings with the SATA and there is a lot of concern, after 2 years of cancelled shoots because of covid we now have this, ammo is up 30% from last year and 50% from 2020 the only difference back then was you could actually get some, now it's tough to find and expensive, add that to the increase in the price of fuel to get to the shoot, it's not looking good.

[antlercarver]

There are many different kinds of currency. Some may believe in some situations ammo may be more valuable than silver, gold, oil or water.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waldedw

That article was posted on the TS.Com before x-mass and beat to death by the members there, our friends to the south have blamed the hoarders and everyone from Biden to trump to the Russians and the greed of Vista and Olin depending on the day.

IMHO it has to due with the world economy in general everything is up 35% plus shortage of raw materials, shipping cost and hording all rolled into 1, the perfect storm, to go along with a monopoly by 2 companies.

It is going to hurt the clay bird shooters and small gun clubs the most as this is the time of year for the start of the registered shoots, I have been in on 2 virtual meetings with the SATA and there is a lot of concern, after 2 years of cancelled shoots because of covid we now have this, ammo is up 30% from last year and 50% from 2020 the only difference back then was you could actually get some, now it's tough to find and expensive, add that to the increase in the price of fuel to get to the shoot, it's not looking good.

The fact is that with components in short supply, some companies aren't making any target shotshells, and the others have greatly reduced capacity. The components they can get, are being used to make waterfowl loads, because the markup is much higher, than with target loads.

[Pioneer2]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Hoarding in the US


My friend in Tyler Texas sent me a picture and a video

The picture was of his shed, which held 1 million rounds of ammo....

The video was of his neighbors quanset. He was moving pallets of ammo. He bought 10 million rounds of ammo...

Two retired guys in Texas. 11 million rounds of ammo.

Tells you something.....

They are expecting a racial or civil war.

[CNP]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...64#post4509364

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by 270person

Dont have to convince myself. The numbers are well documented to back up the causes.

The numbers said Hilary was going to win. They were wrong, the numbers said there was no way a viable vaccine for Covid would be available before mid 2021…. They were wrong. For every case supporting your numbers I could find one refuting it. The problem with polls is they are easy to manipulate to get the results you want. The same with news articles that they only want to report on what benefits them. But alas your convinced your right and nothing I say will change that so we can agree to disagree. I’ll be happy to be skeptical of the media and you can go about your day believing whatever they say.

[270person]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

The numbers said Hilary was going to win. They were wrong, the numbers said there was no way a viable vaccine for Covid would be available before mid 2021…. They were wrong. For every case supporting your numbers I could find one refuting it. The problem with polls is they are easy to manipulate to get the results you want. The same with news articles that they only want to report on what benefits them. But alas your convinced your right and nothing I say will change that so we can agree to disagree. I’ll be happy to be skeptical of the media and you can go about your day believing whatever they say.

Google isn't biased. Do a search on it to see if firearms sales rise when a Democrat president is elected. Pretty simple but it doesn't seem like you want to hear the answer.

Fyi they went up massively during Obama's tenure. Dipped down after Trump was elected. Those are facts. Throw in the race relations down there the past few years, the widening gap between right and left, add covid, and you've got the perfect outlet for American hysteria.

But you feel it's because Remington folded and brass is hard to find and not that theres been massive rises in the numbers of firearms being sold and ammunition being hoarded. A very quick look at the last 30 years of American political history shows all you need to know. Doesn't take much to push buttons down there and it'll only get worse.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 270person

Google isn't biased. Do a search on it to see if firearms sales rise when a Democrat president is elected. Pretty simple but it doesn't seem like you want to hear the answer.

Fyi they went up massively during Obama's tenure. Dipped down after Trump was elected. Those are facts. Throw in the race relations down there the past few years, the widening gap between right and left, add covid, and you've got the perfect outlet for American hysteria.

But you feel it's because Remington folded and brass is hard to find and not that theres been massive rises in the numbers of firearms being sold and ammunition being hoarded. A very quick look at the last 30 years of American political history shows all you need to know. Doesn't take much to push buttons down there and it'll only get worse.

So why have firearms/ammunition sales spiked in Canada , as well, in the last few years?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So why have firearms/ammunition sales spiked in Canada , as well, in the last few years?

You mean you don’t know???
I’m joking lol

[cody j]

Originally Posted by 270person

Google isn't biased. Do a search on it to see if firearms sales rise when a Democrat president is elected. Pretty simple but it doesn't seem like you want to hear the answer.

Fyi they went up massively during Obama's tenure. Dipped down after Trump was elected. Those are facts. Throw in the race relations down there the past few years, the widening gap between right and left, add covid, and you've got the perfect outlet for American hysteria.

But you feel it's because Remington folded and brass is hard to find and not that theres been massive rises in the numbers of firearms being sold and ammunition being hoarded. A very quick look at the last 30 years of American political history shows all you need to know. Doesn't take much to push buttons down there and it'll only get worse.

Not to get too political here, but are we talking about the same unbiased google that donated to the Trudeau foundation? The same unbiased google that deleted pages of Stephen Harper search results at the request of the Liberal govt?

[270person]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So why have firearms/ammunition sales spiked in Canada , as well, in the last few years?

JT maybe. Plus the situation south of the 49th kinda puts us in buy now or dont get it mode.

[270person]

Originally Posted by cody j

Not to get too political here, but are we talking about the same unbiased google that donated to the Trudeau foundation? The same unbiased google that deleted pages of Stephen Harper search results at the request of the Liberal govt?

You do understand Google is merely a search engine you can type a topic into and hit enter yes? I wasnt talking about Google News stories.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 270person

JT maybe. Plus the situation south of the 49th kinda puts us in buy now or dont get it mode.

So if JT is a factor, it isn't just an American thing, and many Americans and Canadians, are buying for the same reason, to buy while it is available. As for buying for personal protection, that isn't just an American thing either, with such a broken legal system, that doesn't protect the citizens, many Canadians are also concerned about protecting their families. And then of course , we have such a corrupt leader, that is taking away our rights and freedoms, that some Canadians want to be armed , to protect themselves against our government.

You do understand Google is merely a search engine you can type a topic into and hit enter yes? I wasnt talking about Google News stories.

And of course Google searches will lead you to a great deal of material that isn't proven, and that isn't true, because it is merely a search engine.