Big Rant!..... so.. if you take someone to a ‘honey hole’

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Oooohhh Too soon

Imma stupid person... she boils down to that

Hmmmmm time will tell if you repeat this...then yup....you got caught up being a good person is all.

[elkhunter11]

Only my closest friends get taken to my best locations. The only thing worse than poaching a good hunting spot, is using your name to try and get permission, or using your name if caught hunting there without asking permission. Neither has happened to me, but I do know of instances where both happened.

[Kurt505]

I showed a guy my spot, let him use my travel trailer for months for free and told him where we did not have permission.

He shot an elk where he knew we had no permission, broke the tv in my travel trailer and never offered to replace it, and brought out friends who I don’t know when I was not there and stayed at my place, then wonders why I kicked him out and have not spoken to him since...

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I showed a guy my spot, let him use my travel trailer for months for free and told him where we did not have permission.

He shot an elk where he knew we had no permission, broke the tv in my travel trailer and never offered to replace it, and brought out friends who I don’t know when I was not there and stayed at my place, then wonders why I kicked him out and have not spoken to him since...

That one would fall under the loosing his front teeth consequence mentioned in my earlier post

[Big Lou]

I’ve got a pretty short list of guys I will share intel with, much less spots. But those that make the list are rock solid. I’d take a kid to a great spot for sure but only spots that I have locked up with permission that isn’t going anywhere on me. Or on my own acres.

I’ve been shown some great elk spots. Was even invited to hunt one at one time. But I went with him and him only. Just that time. It shouldn’t even need to be said that if someone else is doing all the leg work to find a great spot that you’re expected to not be seen in there without an invite or such. It’s a privilege in my eyes.

I had an ex friend get caught on acres I had permish on. Said to the landowner that he was going to ask me if he could go but forgot about it. ME!? Why on earth would you ask me? Luckily the landowner got a bit of a kick out of the situation and knew me well enough to pick up on what was happening.

Just recently, a husband of my wife’s friend. Never has hunted around where I spend a fair bit of time. His family has land elsewhere and blah blah blah. So my own fault but I was a touch liberal with some mule deer pictures and stories. Anywho, started touching base with landowners in June/July. Guess who’s name comes up that’s been asking around for permission? Dropping my name too. What a slough footing sack of you know what. I never thought I’d be mad enough over something such as this to come to blows but I have to admit, I’ve been hot over this for months. Dirty pool.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I showed a guy my spot, let him use my travel trailer for months for free and told him where we did not have permission.



He shot an elk where he knew we had no permission, broke the tv in my travel trailer and never offered to replace it, and brought out friends who I don’t know when I was not there and stayed at my place, then wonders why I kicked him out and have not spoken to him since...

I told you not to invite guys hunting who you met right before last call at The Drake, but you never listen.

Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by sns2

Dog feces in bucket. Add 3 parts hot water for each part feces. Put lid on bucket. Shake really well. Drive to your buddy's house. 1/3 on his front seat, 1/3 on his wife's front seat for marrying such a lowlife, and 1/3 splattered across the front door, being sure to cover the door handle. Leave.

Good heavens! Remind me never to get on your bad side, SNS!

Originally Posted by Positrac

Wow, though crowd...lol.

I’ve had people take me into their “honey holes” before and I’d never think to go back in there by myself or even mention the spot to someone else. Wouldn’t even consider asking. That’s kind of an unwritten rule and it’s a respect thing.

But, I’ve taken people into good areas before or told people about good areas and I really couldn’t care less if they go back in there. Maybe when I was younger it would have bothered me but not for a long time now.

No place I go to is void of other people. If I’ve found it so has someone else. Heck if I’ve found it and it turns out to be a nice spot then someone else probably already considers it their “honey hole”.

I spend a lot of time out in the bush and usually only hunt the same spots a couple times a year. I think I bore easily. Finding new spots to me is half the fun. Or new ways of getting into spots. Then I spend a ton of time, months sometimes, thinking about how to hunt the area. Then it’s a trip in to check things out. If I’m not successful but the area has promise then I keep at it And will go back but if I get what I’m after then it’s on to the next spot. To me that’s half the fun and I quite often pass that info on to other people because finding the area and then planning how to hunt it is the fun part for me.

But, if I did find that magical spot that for some reason was overlooked by others and really meant something to me I’d keep it to myself and not tell a soul.

I'm very much the same. That isn't to say that I haven't had the pleasure of being taken to new areas by my friends (and I uphold the sanctity of those areas) but I do love finding new spots. It gives me the opportunity to "give back" to those who have helped me. And honestly, spending time with those people is just as valuable to me as the hunting itself - and that tells you that these are people I care about and trust.

As for "gimme" spots or honey holes, that's not necessarily the places where you would take a first-time hunter anyhow. They need to know what it takes to locate those spots and, especially if remote, retrieve their game from there. Did that with my sons last weekend - They now have first-hand knowledge of what "after the shot" means. Plus they are learning what to look for so that they can find those places on their own. I think that is more valuable in mentoring than taking them to a honey hole in the first place.

And like Positrac says, some of our secret areas aren't necessarily so secret. A while back I got a text from a fellow forum member that he was stuck - when he told me where, I told him that I knew the exact hole where to find him. And here he thought that that was his "secret" trail - it turns out that we both used it regularly, although we rarely see others there.

I have to add, it is getting easier now that I can spend a bit more time in the woods. My new job is less taxing on my weekends and evenings, and the kids are bigger, and it gives me an opportunity to get them out of Incredigirl's hair, so I do have more time now to explore. So that means I don't put so much pressure on key areas, or need to rely on others to show me those areas.

[leeelmer]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I showed a guy my spot, let him use my travel trailer for months for free and told him where we did not have permission.

He shot an elk where he knew we had no permission, broke the tv in my travel trailer and never offered to replace it, and brought out friends who I don’t know when I was not there and stayed at my place, then wonders why I kicked him out and have not spoken to him since...

Wow Kurt
That is brutal. Not had that happen, but definitely had the bring your dad and all your buddies out thinking that's ok.
I invited a guy to come hunting with me, he showed up with a cooler of beer, and 4 friends, asked what the cooler was for? They replied, well hunting without beer is like fishing without beer, it can't be done. Told them I was busy, and never talked to him again.

[Steyr Luxus]

People ask me all the time where did you get this or that. My simple answer is where you find them and leave it at that.

[JDK71]

never only family

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by mtnhunter

I made this mistake once as well. Took a guy out to help him learn to hunt and get his first animal. Shortly after I find him and a whole group of guys hunting my private spot!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We did that once with an out of province guy who we randomly met in the city. Liked to hunt, knew no one and asked if he could come. No problem. We invited him to the crown land out south west of Fox Creek for a few hunts that year. Nice guy, very thankful.

Next year he had a lot more "friends" who hunted and was out hunting the same area for a week with them. When we met on the road, he was a bit sheepish as he knew we didn't want our spots given out.

Bugged us that he did it but in reality, he added 4 more people to the hundreds already hunting the area. We had the atvs, he and his new friends could only walk in so our out of the way spots were safe for a while anyways. Our issue was like many have said, we did the work to find the out of the way spots, now he had that knowledge.


Kinda like that old commercial, he told two friends and they told two friends and bam. Your secret spot aint so secret.

[creeky]

From "friends" showing up befriending landowners you have permissions on to figuring (stalking) your honey holes & using your name-seen it all, just don't do it-only grief and heartbreak will come of it.


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[wildwoods]

When I share my honey hole (which is a relatively common occurrence) I specify to people to A) keep it quiet and B) never hunt there without me being there or without my knowledge. I have never had an issue. These things need to be verbalized. It goes without saying you also need to vet your hunting partners and make sure you are bringing high quality/character people with you...

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

When I share my honey hole (which is a relatively common occurrence) I specify to people to A) keep it quiet and B) never hunt there without me being there or without my knowledge. I have never had an issue. These things need to be verbalized. It goes without saying you also need to vet your hunting partners and make sure you are bringing high quality/character people with you...

even then you may be disappointed...odds stack up against you the more you add to the high calibre character list...

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Kinda like that old commercial, he told two friends and they told two friends and bam. Your secret spot aint so secret.

Yup, the "Faberge Organics" effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcskckuosxQ

[chinchaga07]

Originally Posted by shep dog

Not at all.

"Frenchman's Rule" still applies.

X2 .... Frenchman's rule that wasn't followed ended with cut valve stems back in the day.

[OL_JR]

One of my bigger blood boilers as well as those who treat hunting spots like a wife treats money. My spots are our spots and their spots are theirs. The amount of effort and research people will take advantage of without any thought or reciprocation is crazy. Big reason my hunting circle has gotten smaller over the years and there are never any regrets punting anyone.

I try and avoid going into anyone else's holes as I don't like wasting time on spots not in my control over how and when I go. Don't mind exploring new areas with guys but in that case no one really has any claim. The lines get a little fuzzy when only one person is doing all the research and pre scouting before actually putting boots on the ground though.

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

One of my bigger blood boilers as well as those who treat hunting spots like a wife treats money. My spots are our spots and their spots are theirs. The amount of effort and research people will take advantage of without any thought or reciprocation is crazy. Big reason my hunting circle has gotten smaller over the years and there are never any regrets punting anyone.

I try and avoid going into anyone else's holes as I don't like wasting time on spots not in my control over how and when I go. Don't mind exploring new areas with guys but in that case no one really has any claim. The lines get a little fuzzy when only one person is doing all the research and pre scouting before actually putting boots on the ground though.

I feel this, I find myself doing 99% of the research and scouting when I hunt with other guys and it’s starting to get old. Even if we put boots on the ground together, if I went through all the hoops to find the spot we end up putting boots on the ground probably shouldn’t be going in alone without asking.

[Camdelle]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

I’ve always operated on the understanding ( though unspoken) .. that if you are taken to an super elk, or pheasant spot... that’s has taken The person great effort to Scout-figure-find and secure.... And these are serious out of the way spots...

That You don’t go there to hunt it by yourself ever. I feel it’s pretty rude to ask to hunt there even. If buddy is ok with you going there... he’d say it.

It’s like you just never ask people where the sheep are.... it’s just not done.

It’s just proper manners.

Needless to say... I’m seriously reconsidering who I share spots with....


Or am I out of line here and wasting a good mad/pout?

I agree with you 100%. Might be a good idea to set the rules in advance though. I am newer to hunting and might have not thought about it. If told outright I would not even consider it.

[Jayhad]

No Bessiedog you are not out of touch on this.
I find many now don't understand or care about the sanctity of the spot. It takes some real time to be given the willy wonka golden ticket to my locations now due to being burned in the past.

I hate to say it but if your blood doesn't come from where mine came from, hunting or fishing with me may not happen

[tri777]

The way I see it, if you discover 'anything' that is good, tell someone and watch it disappear.

[KegRiver]

I guess I see things a bit different.

To my mind there is no such thing as my secret spot. Yeah there are places I hunt that only family knows of, but I don't own them. I have no more rights to them then anyone else.

Moreover, even when I haven't shown anyone my favorite spot, others find it, after I made trails into it, and they claim it as their own and tell me to stay to H out.

Really! I've been going there for twenty years, you found it a month ago and you think you have the right to order me off, CROWN LAND!!!
Or worse yet, and this has happened, My BROTHER'S LAND. And not just my brother land, it's the land I grew up on! The nerve!

So I share my honey holes. In part because I know what it's like to have no clue where to start and in part because I know it's only a matter of time before someone finds it and turns it into grande central station.

Don't matter how remote it is or how well I keep it a secret, someone will find it and ruin it. That's just the way it is these days.

Besides, I'd rather a hundred slobs find it then one outfitter. I've had more grief with those operations then any amount of private hunters, and I used to work in that industry. But back then it was run mostly by gentlemen, now it's the worst crooks in the country in charge of most outfitting operations.

I know several old time outfitters, salt of the earth kinda guys, and a couple of new generation outfitters, pond scum kinda guys.

The sad fact is, the whole world is changing. Those kinda guys, the pond scum kind are becoming the norm in all sort of endeavors. Not just outfitting, but private hunters, fishermen, even every day commuters.

It's one of the reasons I will always live in the north. We are and always will be the last place those kinda guys move to.

I feel for you guys that have to live among them.

[Smoky buck]

Kegriver I agree portion of your post but don’t at the same time

Crown land is open to all and all have a right to it. I have no issue if someone finds where I hunt on their own. I may pout and walk off if another hunter beats me to it but it is what it is. But when I refer to a hunting spot I am talking max 400yard sq and in most case less than 1/2 of that. I have no problem sharing general locations though but I don’t give up the small pockets I hunt easy. I actually have not had much issues with hunters or outfitters I don’t know regarding location but I avoid others when I start looking for locations theses days

Now if a guy is calling a 50km sq of crown land his spot and trying to keep it secret that doesn’t work too well lol

I have actually had more bad experiences with average hunters then outfitters though but average hunters also out number them. On average when I cross paths with another hunter or an outfitter it’s a respectful experience. Only thing I found with outfitters on average they try to be more hush hush about things unless they realize you know the area really well. But yup had a few bad experiences with both hunters and outfitters over the years. Biggest piece of crap hunter I crossed paths with was an outfitter though

Lived in small northern communities and big cities I have reached the conclusion idiots and good people live in both. With city people there is just more of them so you are bound to find more idiots from the city. I have also met some really scummy people in small northern communities though. I have lived in and worked in small areas where majority of the people were awesome but I know of a couple small communities that are over run with scum

When it comes to the whole hunting spot thing amongst those I hunt with it’s mostly about respect why we have unwritten rules and not about keeping spots to ourselves. We have also helped a lot of rookies with where to hunt as well

As for the city people thing well I can’t live in cities anymore do to the number of people but I know towns of under 2k I can’t stand the people either.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Kegriver I agree portion of your post but don’t at the same time

Crown land is open to all and all have a right to it. I have no issue if someone finds where I hunt on their own. I may pout and walk off if another hunter beats me to it but it is what it is. But when I refer to a hunting spot I am talking max 400yard sq and in most case less than 1/2 of that. I have no problem sharing general locations though but I don’t give up the small pockets I hunt easy. I actually have not had much issues with hunters or outfitters I don’t know regarding location but I avoid others when I start looking for locations theses days

Now if a guy is calling a 50km sq of crown land his spot and trying to keep it secret that doesn’t work too well lol

I have actually had more bad experiences with average hunters then outfitters though but average hunters also out number them. On average when I cross paths with another hunter or an outfitter it’s a respectful experience. Only thing I found with outfitters on average they try to be more hush hush about things unless they realize you know the area really well. But yup had a few bad experiences with both hunters and outfitters over the years. Biggest piece of crap hunter I crossed paths with was an outfitter though

Lived in small northern communities and big cities I have reached the conclusion idiots and good people live in both. With city people there is just more of them so you are bound to find more idiots from the city. I have also met some really scummy people in small northern communities though. I have lived in and worked in small areas where majority of the people were awesome but I know of a couple small communities that are over run with scum

When it comes to the whole hunting spot thing amongst those I hunt with it’s mostly about respect why we have unwritten rules and not about keeping spots to ourselves. We have also helped a lot of rookies with where to hunt as well

As for the city people thing well I can’t live in cities anymore do to the number of people but I know towns of under 2k I can’t stand the people either.

I can't argue with that. Not much different then the way I see things.

I do know I am blessed to live where I do.

A well known AO member was up here a number of years ago. His truck broke down and my neighbor who doesn't know this individual from Adam offered him a truck to drive while he was here.
I do have awesome neighbors.

Many of you know Huntin from his time on this forum, he lives half a mile from me. He and his family have bailed us out of a difficult situation more then once. They don't come any better then that.

BTW, he's an outfitter now.
But old school, salt of the earth kinda guy. And he's the exception around here. We also have a couple of the worst outfitters in the province.

[Smoky buck]

I think we can all agree some respect amongst hunters goes a long ways regardless if they are friends or strangers

The old school rule we are taught as kids should apply “treat others how you wish to be treated”

[bessiedog]

Well Keg, maybe I should clarify

If I have a critter patch that is relatively easy to get to and guys I know find it themselves... or other guys find it... well yea.. have at er. It’s a free country.

This situation was this:

The area is a spot where 80-90% of guys would not hike up that far it’s got some up. It’s a lot of vertical. And this guy would NEVER venture up there on his own guaranteed.

He literally shot the 6x6 about 20 yards from where we set up and bugle-mewed a week ago.

How do I know this? He texted me a pic of the downed animal and told me he got it at another spot we Both know of.

So I go out after work for a solo hint to ‘my’ spot and get greeted with ravens and a small bear on the carcass ( after a good hike in).......

I hike back out and drive to another spot for just last light......

There’s an element of lack of integrity here.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Well Keg, maybe I should clarify

If I have a critter patch that is relatively easy to get to and guys I know find it themselves... or other guys find it... well yea.. have at er. It’s a free country.

This situation was this:

The area is a spot where 80-90% of guys would not hike up that far it’s got some up. It’s a lot of vertical. And this guy would NEVER venture up there on his own guaranteed.

He literally shot the 6x6 about 20 yards from where we set up and bugle-mewed a week ago.

How do I know this? He texted me a pic of the downed animal and told me he got it at another spot we Both know of.

So I go out after work for a solo hint to ‘my’ spot and get greeted with ravens and a small bear on the carcass ( after a good hike in).......

I hike back out and drive to another spot for just last light......

There’s an element of lack of integrity here.

Lying about it justifies a kick in the nuts if not more

That would be grounds for becoming an ex hunting buddy right there

[58thecat]

Sshhhh loose lips sink ships shhhhhh

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Well Keg, maybe I should clarify

If I have a critter patch that is relatively easy to get to and guys I know find it themselves... or other guys find it... well yea.. have at er. It’s a free country.

This situation was this:

The area is a spot where 80-90% of guys would not hike up that far it’s got some up. It’s a lot of vertical. And this guy would NEVER venture up there on his own guaranteed.

He literally shot the 6x6 about 20 yards from where we set up and bugle-mewed a week ago.

How do I know this? He texted me a pic of the downed animal and told me he got it at another spot we Both know of.

So I go out after work for a solo hint to ‘my’ spot and get greeted with ravens and a small bear on the carcass ( after a good hike in).......

I hike back out and drive to another spot for just last light......

There’s an element of lack of integrity here.

I understand your frustration.

It's just that the way I figure it, I expect that sort of thing to happen if I share a favorite spot. Human nature being what it is these days.

And I'm okay with that more because I see it as inevitable anyway, even if I didn't share, then because I think it's acceptable behavior.

I suppose I am cynical really. I just don't expect much of people these days.
But I'm not about to join the march to end hunting. I'll do what I can to encourage others to become hunters even if it means less opportunity for me.

I can do that because my hunting years are close to done. I won't be here to see the demise of what was once an honorable way to provide for one's family.

Now it's more about bragging rights and getting one up on the next guy.

Why else would someone want to carry a cannon without wheels?

[bessiedog]

Well

I expect more from people. I don’t believe the honor system is dead. It just might be harder to find people that follow it.

Maybe I’m naive....