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  #31  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:34 PM
Supergrit Supergrit is offline
 
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To bad another bad scene at US schools hopefully the government takes drastic action cause it is time for a change.
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  #32  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
This is the 22nd US school shooting since the beginning of the year, and the third instance in eight days in which a gunman was on a school campus.

The U.S. has a problem unlike anywhere else in the civilized world and with each incidence there's lots of hand wringing and ballyhooing at the start and then....nothing. As long as they continue doing nothing, which is highly likely with the doofus they have running the show, nothing will change.

Maybe it's just inherent in the U.S. psyche.
If you want to play dueling stats:
https://www.cdc.gov/violencepreventi...ence/SAVD.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b0368a1a6136ed

https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/0...searcher-says/

Also, there is plenty of evidence that the press are complicit in the events themselves:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle38010220/

So what exactly should be done?
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Define school shooting.

Get your facts straight before you try to promote a shallow
and misleading agenda.

You blame the "psyche" in the US for the disproportionate amount of school shootings, what do you blame for the disproportionate amount of terrorism in other countries?


No desire to "define" anything for you being that I find your logic parameters to be extremely limited, largely one dimensional, and for lack of a better word, obtuse.

Number of school children killed in school shootings in 2018 is "nearly double" the number of casualties of U.S. service members.

Spin that any particular way you want to but if you don't see a problem in the U.S. you're even further out of touch than my calculations have you pegged at.
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  #34  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
No desire to "define" anything for you being that I find your logic parameters to be extremely limited, largely one dimensional, and for lack of a better word, obtuse.

Number of school children killed in school shootings in 2018 is "nearly double" the number of casualties of U.S. service members.

Spin that any particular way you want to but if you don't see a problem in the U.S. you're even further out of touch than my calculations have you pegged at.
And over dose deaths of school aged kids are three to five times as large. Please oh wise one, tell us what we must do....
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  #35  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
No desire to "define" anything for you being that I find your logic parameters to be extremely limited, largely one dimensional, and for lack of a better word, obtuse.

Number of school children killed in school shootings in 2018 is "nearly double" the number of casualties of U.S. service members.

Spin that any particular way you want to but if you don't see a problem in the U.S. you're even further out of touch than my calculations have you pegged at.
How am I being obtuse? I have already stated that there is indeed a problem.

Now, in an attempt to find common ground, what do you think the problem is?
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
I would say that the father of the boy screwed up big time! The kid definently had issues and his parents couldn’t have noticed it. The father should’ve kept his guns locked! The child shouldn’t have an access to the weapons. Tragedies like this one are totally avoidable if only the parents have done their part!
We don't know for sure, the father might have had them locked up like Fort Knox. Most of us know nothing goes on in a household that kids don't know about or can't get into if they really want to and bide their time waiting for the opportunity. Perhaps a key went missing a few years ago or the safe combination was written down or overheard when the safe was purchased a decade ago, prying curious eyes might have been watching and memorizing. On the other hand the father could have let the kid have total access to the guns trusting the kid was mature and trustworthy or in denial that he wasn't. We all know some parents are willfully blind and completely in denial when it comes to what their kids are getting up to even when it's happening right in front of them. We'll probably never know. Unfortunate either way.
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  #37  
Old 05-19-2018, 06:43 PM
Supergrit Supergrit is offline
 
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The Father more then likely just an average parent not perfect not bad, but something just happened to his son something that know one would believe their child could do. Ted Bundy had a normal loving parents yet he grew up to be a serial killer. Some times people just snap.
Obviously looking at he situation now the guns should have been better locked every friend I had growing up had no problem accessing ther parents guns. We all hunted and enjoyed the out doors. I guess times are differnt ever since columbine school shooting have become the norm and it is getting worst every year.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:27 PM
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Obviously, this is not a simple issue. More guns and easier access for the mentally ill than anywhere on earth is going to result in more crimes. But why the brazen killing in schools is simply beyond me. The problems run deep and are beyond sound byte internet answers. Don't know that anyone really has it all figured out. It is almost as if that country is under some type of curse when it comes to mass murders committed by members of the public at large. Sad. Not that we are immune, but this makes me appreciate our country all the more.
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteout View Post
Has the news reported that he got the gun from unlocked storage in the home? Pretty big conclusion to jump to and blame the parents.

Always the chance that it was purchased illegally, or it was stolen from secured storage in the home.
The police said that both weapons - the shotgun and the handgun belong to his father. Kids at school saying that the guy wasn’t all there, he was always wearing long trench coat even in a 30 degree heat and was bullied by other kids and even teacher called him stinky because of the body order.
We all love our kids more than anything else but we are also the first to know if there is something “off” with the kid. I’m sure his parents knew that the kid had issues.
Regarding the storing the firearms. I don’t care what but if I have kids in a house, young or especially teens, my first priority would be the security of my guns. Back when I got my first couple of guns and I didn’t have a safe, I used the trigger locks on all and also kept bolts and mags in separate hidden places.
My kid is 25 now and my guns are in the safe. She doesn’t know the combination, not because I don’t trust her but because I don’t trust her friends! I don’t know them well enough to be able to determine which one of them after a few extra drinks will decide to shoot a squirrel running on the fence.
I don’t care what are his father’s excuses ! It is his fault. The guns were not stored safely!
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
Obviously, this is not a simple issue. More guns and easier access for the mentally ill than anywhere on earth is going to result in more crimes. But why the brazen killing in schools is simply beyond me. The problems run deep and are beyond sound byte internet answers. Don't know that anyone really has it all figured out. It is almost as if that country is under some type of curse when it comes to mass murders committed by members of the public at large. Sad. Not that we are immune, but this makes me appreciate our country all the more.
Copycats! Every single “famous” criminal in the world had people following his deeds and admiring him. Don’t need to look too far: look at the Hollywood movies about old west, modern criminals like Al Capone and Benny segal, etc etc etc...
Kids are more prone to copycat, especially when they think that it is something that makes them popular and cool. It s a new trend, like eating Tide pods and snorting condoms....
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  #41  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Copycats! Every single “famous” criminal in the world had people following his deeds and admiring him. Don’t need to look too far: look at the Hollywood movies about old west, modern criminals like Al Capone and Benny segal, etc etc etc...
Kids are more prone to copycat, especially when they think that it is something that makes them popular and cool. It s a new trend, like eating Tide pods and snorting condoms....
Undoubtedly that is a big part of it. 15 seconds of infamy.
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  #42  
Old 05-19-2018, 08:25 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
The police said that both weapons - the shotgun and the handgun belong to his father. Kids at school saying that the guy wasn’t all there, he was always wearing long trench coat even in a 30 degree heat and was bullied by other kids and even teacher called him stinky because of the body order.
We all love our kids more than anything else but we are also the first to know if there is something “off” with the kid. I’m sure his parents knew that the kid had issues.
Regarding the storing the firearms. I don’t care what but if I have kids in a house, young or especially teens, my first priority would be the security of my guns. Back when I got my first couple of guns and I didn’t have a safe, I used the trigger locks on all and also kept bolts and mags in separate hidden places.
My kid is 25 now and my guns are in the safe. She doesn’t know the combination, not because I don’t trust her but because I don’t trust her friends! I don’t know them well enough to be able to determine which one of them after a few extra drinks will decide to shoot a squirrel running on the fence.
I don’t care what are his father’s excuses ! It is his fault. The guns were not stored safely!
So because a 17 year old obtained his father"s firearms, it's the father's fault? What a ridiculous statement to make without knowing the details. For all you know , the firearms may have been secured in one of the commonly used safes. Do you realize just how easy many firearms safes are to break into?

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/article...ft-protection/

Are you sure that nobody could break into your safe with a bit of time and some basic tools
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  #43  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:39 PM
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[QUOTE=KGB;3787805]The police said that both weapons - the shotgun and the handgun belong to his father. Kids at school saying that the guy wasn’t all there, he was always wearing long trench coat even in a 30 degree heat and was bullied by other kids and even teacher called him stinky because of the body order.
We all love our kids more than anything else but we are also the first to know if there is something “off” with the kid. I’m sure his parents knew that the kid had issues.
Regarding the storing the firearms. I don’t care what but if I have kids in a house, young or especially teens, my first priority would be the security of my guns. Back when I got my first couple of guns and I didn’t have a safe, I used the trigger locks on all and also kept bolts and mags in separate hidden places.
My kid is 25 now and my guns are in the safe. She doesn’t know the combination, not because I don’t trust her but because I don’t trust her friends! I don’t know them well enough to be able to determine which one of them after a few extra drinks will decide to shoot a squirrel running on the fence.
I don’t care what are his father’s excuses ! It is his fault. The guns were not stored safely![/QUOTE]


Wow Dude you are so far left your in outer space with that comment..... Perhaps you should use that same "logic" on all the mass murders caused by rental vans....the rental companies are at fault not the idiot behind the wheel.......Some people are so eager to lay the blame at an others feet they fail to see the problem that stands right before them.
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  #44  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
This is big news.

Funny how the major school shooting that was prevented this week by an armed school resource officer was not deemed very newsworthy. Pathetic actually.
Not to mention so many other US school shootings lately that only involve one or two fatalities, that don't get reported nationally either.

Sadly, these incidents have become a part of the US 'cultural norm'.

Selkirk
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  #45  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:00 PM
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[QUOTEWow Dude you are so far left your in outer space with that comment..... Perhaps you should use that same "logic" on all the mass murders caused by rental vans....the rental companies are at fault not the idiot behind the wheel.......Some people are so eager to lay the blame at an others feet they fail to see the problem that stands right before them.[/QUOTE]

That is the most idiotic comparison I have read in a while!
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  #46  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So because a 17 year old obtained his father"s firearms, it's the father's fault? What a ridiculous statement to make without knowing the details. For all you know , the firearms may have been secured in one of the commonly used safes. Do you realize just how easy many firearms safes are to break into?

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/article...ft-protection/

Are you sure that nobody could break into your safe with a bit of time and some basic tools
Sure they can, but I don’t think that a few drunk kids will be so determent to break into the safe. Unless there is a zombi apocalypse - they will find other ways to amuse themselves. Also, I like to play safe, really safe. If they break into my safe, they still need to find the bolts....
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  #47  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:08 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Sure they can, but I don’t think that a few drunk kids will be so determent to break into the safe. Unless there is a zombi apocalypse - they will find other ways to amuse themselves. Also, I like to play safe, really safe. If they break into my safe, they still need to find the bolts....
Try removing the bolt from a revolver, like the one used in the shooting
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  #48  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Try removing the bolt from a revolver, like the one used in the shooting
I remove the cylinders
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  #49  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:27 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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I remove the cylinders
And some firearms don't have magazines or cylinders or a bolt. I store my firearms according to the Canadian regulations, and as such, I am doing my due diligence, and it is not my fault if a thief steals my firearms, and uses them in a crime. A determined thief can steal pretty much anything if he wants to, and that doesn't make the owner negligent. And if the thief is a 17 year old that lives in the home , he has plenty of time to plan the theft, and to carry it out. He could also unknowingly watch or record the parent after the parent uses the firearm to see where the firearms are stored, and to see if the magazines or bolts etc are stored separately. Blaming the parent without knowing the details of how the firearms were stored is asinine. The cause of the shootings are what needs to be dealt with to prevent future shootings, rather than blaming the tool that the criminal uses.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 05-20-2018 at 06:34 AM.
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  #50  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:12 AM
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We don't know the circumstances on how he obtained the shotgun and handgun from his father but we're going to assume the father is at fault and not the shooter? WTF, the shooter is the problem, period. He could have very easily hid his problems from his parents. It's not as cut and dried as some seem to believe it is.

I'll bet his parents are absolutely devastated right now and because of some, will spend the rest of their lives being ridiculed for the actions of their son. I truly feel for them. They are victims of the shooter as well.

Quote:
The family of 17-year-old Pagourtzis, accused of killing 10 people and wounding 13 others at the Texas high school Friday, issued a statement expressing condolences to the victims.
The family members said they are "as shocked and confused as anyone by these events that occurred."
Pagourtzis is a "smart, quiet, sweet boy," they said.
The statement, issued through a law firm, says the family is cooperating with investigators and will make no other public comments until the fact-finding stage is completed.
"While we remain mostly in the dark about the specifics of yesterday's tragedy, what we have learned from media reports seems incompatible with the boy we love," they said.
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  #51  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:12 AM
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This ^^^^
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  #52  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:50 PM
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Love scorned

A teenage boy charged with killing eight students and two teachers during a shooting at a Texas high school had been spurned by one of his victims after making aggressive advances, her mother told the Los Angeles Times.
Sadie Rodriguez, the mother of Shana Fisher, 16, told the newspaper her daughter rejected four months of "aggressive" advances from accused shooter Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, at the Santa Fe High School.

Sadly the young man's affair ended up with a tragedy, nothing or anybody to blame except the young man.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dimitri...ting-1.4671333
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  #53  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Try removing the bolt from a revolver, like the one used in the shooting
You are missing the point pal. All I’m saying is that the simple logical rules of safe storing the firearms were not followed.
I’m not calling for the crusifiction of the father, he has enough on his plate as of now.... God forbid enybody to be in his shoes! Ever!
But knowing some people and the way they are storing their long guns - I simply shake my head! Under the bed, in a soft case with a trigger lock....
May be it is good enough in one household with no kids around but it was defiantly wasn’t enough in the case we are talking about. Again, all I’m saying is that the access to firearms was too easy for this kid.
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  #54  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:30 PM
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Those guns should have been locked up and the perp should never have access.

Of course
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  #55  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter View Post
Yes I am sure mental issues, sexual abuse?, or a hundred other factors will never be discussed....but that DANG firearm...will be the problem...no doubt !
You jumped to “sexual abuse” how did u come up with that ? Just curious
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  #56  
Old 05-20-2018, 04:57 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
You are missing the point pal. All I’m saying is that the simple logical rules of safe storing the firearms were not followed.
I’m not calling for the crusifiction of the father, he has enough on his plate as of now.... God forbid enybody to be in his shoes! Ever!
But knowing some people and the way they are storing their long guns - I simply shake my head! Under the bed, in a soft case with a trigger lock....
May be it is good enough in one household with no kids around but it was defiantly wasn’t enough in the case we are talking about. Again, all I’m saying is that the access to firearms was too easy for this kid.
So exactly how were the revolver and shotgun stored? Were they in a safe, a closet, under the bed? You cant know that the firearms were not stored safely, unless you know exactly how they were stored
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  #57  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So exactly how were the revolver and shotgun stored? Were they in a safe, a closet, under the bed? You cant know that the firearms were not stored safely, unless you know exactly how they were stored
That’s what I would like to know too. And I’m sure 100% that those guns haven’t been secured properly.
I’m not here to argue with you pal, I’m just stating my opinion.
Think of it this way: you got involved in a car accident and you were behind the car that you rear ended. You were following too close REGARDLESS of what other guy did. End of the story.
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  #58  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:25 PM
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That’s what I would like to know too. And I’m sure 100% that those guns haven’t been secured properly.
I’m not here to argue with you pal, I’m just stating my opinion.
Think of it this way: you got involved in a car accident and you were behind the car that you rear ended. You were following too close REGARDLESS of what other guy did. End of the story.
Your stance on this has been made pretty clear and it’s not one of wanting to know the facts before making accusations and accusing the correct person of committing a crime
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  #59  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:26 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
That’s what I would like to know too. And I’m sure 100% that those guns haven’t been secured properly.
I’m not here to argue with you pal, I’m just stating my opinion.
Think of it this way: you got involved in a car accident and you were behind the car that you rear ended. You were following too close REGARDLESS of what other guy did. End of the story.
So you admit that you don't know how the firearms were stored, yet you claim that they were not stored safely? That is nothing more than an asinine assumption.
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  #60  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:00 PM
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This happened in Texas the storage laws are simple 38 in the nightstand and the shotgun behind the closet door.
When I was 16 I had my own shotguns and rifles, I don't believe access had nothing to do with this crime the guy spun out over a woman. If he wouldn't have gotten into Dad's gun's he would have borrowed cousin Cletus's or used a truck.
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