Bivy Sack or other options

briverb · #1 10-26-2007, 08:22 AM

Doing some research on bivy sacks. Looking to do a few more overnight hunting trips in November as well as a lot of overnight ice fishing trips. I usually go in my buddies trailer or we go in tents. I was hoping to do more trips without either. I have done a lot of backcountry camping in all 4 seasons. My mummy bag and overbag have never failed for warmth even down to -40 conditioins. Mummy bag is rated for -7 and my overbag add 12 degrees.

I just started to look at the bivy sacks at MEC. I like the advanced Gortex models so far.

Would I be better off going with a bivy sack to compliment my mummy bag and overbag, or are there specail sleeping bags that you can kick off your boots and jump into and lie on the ground, snow, ice, etc.

Does anyone have a preference of bivy sack? What are some things I should consider?

Cost is not an issue as I believe you get what you pay for.

First time out I will try and rent one to test it.

Thanks for any replies.

Kutenay · #2 10-26-2007, 08:46 AM

I bought my first bivy in 1969 and have been using them ever since; I never go anywhere without one, a light tarp and a s-bag.

After trying several brands, my favourite is Integral Designs of Calgary and I have three of their bivies, a Mega Sola shelter, sort of a bivy/tent combo and three of there tarps plus three of their bags, a tent and also clothing by them. They are about the best outdoor gear maker I know of and their products actually WORK as they claim they will, not always the case with others.

For one, single bivy for everything, my choice would be, no question, the ëVent Unishelter with Syltarp II or III, I prefer the latter even though it weighs 6 oz. more. Call ID and ask them where you can buy these, the extra cost for the eVent fabric IS WORTH IT.

For alpine hunting, on multiday trips, I find their Mega Sola paired with a Silwing better than anything else I have ever tried and that's quite a lot of gear, over the years. I cannot recommend this gear too highly and think that you would be completely satisfied with it, MEC does not handle the eVent Uniushelter, only the heavier Tegraltex version. I have had one of these since 1993 and it is just excellent, but, the eVent is better. HTH.

tallguy · #3 10-26-2007, 09:58 AM

go get a canadian military issue biv bag. i used them in the bitterest of weather conditions durring my time in the military. there less expensive than MEC ones, are more durable and are OD green. and lets not forget, MEC donates thousands of dollers every year to anti hunting groups...

#4 10-26-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

and lets not forget, MEC donates thousands of dollers every year to anti hunting groups...

Name one!

tallguy · #5 10-26-2007, 11:37 AM

ive been looking into this since i read an article in either western sportsman or alberta outdoorsmen, i cant remember which. MEC's standpoint on hunting is nothing short of foggy at best. ive phoned head office, calgary, vancouver, and edmonton...all of whome said their stance is "probably" agaist hunting. which i interpret as " we wont say, becouse we want you to shop here"

what i did find out is that 5 cents of every sale from local stores is donated to an outdoor charity which is chosen at the store level; so no help there.

also, 1% of their gross sales goes to an organization called 1% for the planet. a quick glace at their benificiaries (mind you many of them are great organizations), do have ties to the anti hunting movement. the eco literacy organization, ESI, and cetacean society are but three on the list that i made contact with, (non of the people i talked to would give me their names) said they do not support hunting in any fasion. (this may have been their personal possision, and not their employer... but we're on the right track)

*note* just fished a phone call with MEC Calgary stores susstainibility man, brad. my concerns were were answered. Mec understands that all of their donations may not go to organizations that they know of. ie: a third party benefactor, so i guess they cant be blamed...entirely. he even brought up the past contraversy about gizz hunting and their donations to a group called wildcanada.net. which we all remember caused a fairly large boycot of their store.

so, i think MEC needs to do their homework before donating money. and im not saying to either support us or be aggainst us. their money does allot for our natural places...its just that some of it ends up in the wrong hands, when all of it should be in neutral hands- neither for or against us. Brad from calgay has told me that now, mec grants money for specific projects that are neither for or against any loby group...just for conservation. well have to wait and see...

#6 10-26-2007, 11:45 AM

tallguy...you are likely refering to an article that I wrote for AO regarding an incident that happened several years ago that MEC was taken to task for by a great number of hunting organizations and individual hunters. Since that time they have kept a pretty neutral stance on things. I know for fact that they have donated goods for auctions to pro hunting organizations. I'm not standing up for MEC here and I wouldn't ever go so far as to say they are prohunting but I hear a lot of people claim that they are anti hunting and it aint so. Have you ever bought a Coors beer in the U.S. You might be interested to know where your money is going. There is no way we can ever know where all the third party money goes.......

I think it totally naive to expect all people and groups to support hunting. The best we can hope for is that they don't oppose it.

tallguy · #7 10-26-2007, 11:51 AM

thats not my point at all, and i understand that not everyone will support hunters. i do appreciate your feedback tho, more information always makes the world a little less hazy. and yes, after talking with them (mec) i do now know their stance is much more neutral, and that their new policy is to try their best not to endanger peoples outdoor pursuits on either side of the fence. thanks for the imput TJ, much apprciated! perhaps next time, ill do my reaseach fully before posting vauge statments. haha.

tallguy · #8 10-26-2007, 11:53 AM

well played sir...

Kutenay · #9 10-26-2007, 11:56 AM

I have a friend, a gun nut, who works at MEC Head Office here in Vancity, plus friends who are "floor staff" and avid hunters. Things in the late '90s-early 2000s, WERE pretty gruesome, however, many older, longterm members, 37+ years for me, complained and now things have improved.

I still much prefer to shop at small, independent outlets and only go to MEC when I have to, but, they have backed off from the radical attitudes of the past.

I do ENJOY telling MEC staffers when I buy something that it is for hunting, tho', oddly enough, I have almost always received positive feedback!

russ · #10 10-26-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallguy

go get a canadian military issue biv bag. i used them in the bitterest of weather conditions durring my time in the military. there less expensive than MEC ones, are more durable and are OD green. and lets not forget, MEC donates thousands of dollers every year to anti hunting groups...

Does mil use the Snugpak bivies? I know that the jackets seem to be popular, I received an elite (jacket) for a belated x-mas gift this year. Quite impressed with it, packs up nice & small. If the bivies are anything like the jacket, they're definitely worth a look.

altaberg · #11 10-26-2007, 01:07 PM

hi Briverb,

just a few comments. I don't like bivysacs at all; for me they are just an emergency thing.
During hunting season I prefer just a ground sheet and a lightweight siltarp.

The siltarps are great, not cheap though. I got mine from MEC.

Depending where I'm going I carry a combination of siltarp, bivy and military poncho for shelter and emergencies. I also have an emergency blancket on me.

The issues I have with real bivies are claustrophobia and perspiration.

Check your sleeping bag and bivy combination because you may get claustrophobic if it is at all restricting.
I also find with a bivy my sleeping bag is often very wet from sweating during the night. I have found that just out in the open even in light snow my sleeping bag is drier than inside a bivy.

Hope this helps

#12 10-26-2007, 01:10 PM

A far better and fairly lighweight option to a bivy IMHO....

http://estore.websitepros.com/176479...kto/Detail.bok

I carry a siltarp for emergency or unexpected overnight stays but if I know I'm going to spend a night out....it's a tent all the way. It allows you to dry out so much better and gives you a bit of space.

tallguy · #13 10-26-2007, 01:50 PM

hey russ, ya, the mil ones ar'nt pocket packable by anymeans, and they are not as light as some. i'd go have a look anyway, check all your options and find what best works for you. if you do get a military bivbag, dont roll your sleeping bag inside it and pack it- to bulky. instead, put your bivbag inside your sleeping bag, then the whole lot into your sleeping bag pouch. thats what i used to do anyway.

TheClash · #14 10-26-2007, 05:28 PM

i'll chime into this as well..as i have some experience on both questions going on......first off..i agree with whomever recommended the integral designs bivy....they are great and a great company to work with. if cost really isn't an issue you can contact integral personally and have then design, build and ship a custom made bivy with pretty much any features you want...and they will stand by it till your grandkids ruin it......i really think a good bivy is the way to go to compliment your sleep system.

now, on to mec...as a former employee i can tell you it is a mixed bag..depending on who you talk to and an which day. mec in the old old old days was staffed with many a hunter/mountaineer....through the years that has wanned a bit...depending on which city you are in..... in calgary, where i worked, there were a few of us. some in management positions. there are, however, many people that work for mec that UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT the role that hunting CAN play in conservation.

as to donating to specific anti hunting groups...again this has changed. from what i understand, from talking to brad as well, mec tries not to donate directly or support any pro or anti groups out right. but will donate to groups that can prove that their main goal is conservation.

but it is also up to us that are hunters and mec members to be a part of the solution ..not the problem. there is a stigma at mec that goes along with most hunters....redneck, smelly, atv riding, 4x4 driving, gas guzzling shoot em up who cares about conservation type. and believe me i have helped many a hunter like that while working at mec and other outdoor shops. but i have also helped may a calm, reasonable environmentally conscious hunter that is looking for the best gear, for the best price for the right activity......which sometimes mec does not have to be honest. usually the rigors of hunting in the bush are a little too abusive for the products mec makes.

one thing i will say about brad..he is an awesome, very open minded and intelligent guy. if any of you are interested in helping the hunting image in calgary and also within mec..he would be more than willing to hear any ideas...as long as they are presented with conservation in mind. so if ya talk to him again tell him flipflop says hi!!

cheers.

ps. the warranty and repair people at the calgary mec are amazing...use some honey and talk to them...or better yet buy them some chocolate (lindor singles are the preferred chocolate) and you will end up with some good freebies....

gonefishin · #15 10-27-2007, 03:39 AM

Not to cause a stink here but I beleive the article "tallguy" was talking about is in the latest issue of Western Sportsman. I beleive it was the editor that wrote the article. It sounds convincing, but I don't shop there or know what the beliefs are from the employees.. just letting the guys and gals know where the article is incase they want to have a read.

briverb · #16 10-27-2007, 09:36 PM

The one in the link you posted looks perfect for what I'm thinking. I might have to test that one out. Thanks

TheClash · #17 10-28-2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

A far better and fairly lighweight option to a bivy IMHO....

http://estore.websitepros.com/176479...kto/Detail.bok

I carry a siltarp for emergency or unexpected overnight stays but if I know I'm going to spend a night out....it's a tent all the way. It allows you to dry out so much better and gives you a bit of space.

very true, i guess i just consider a bivy as an unexpected night nout...rather than an expected. so i agree...if you know you are going to be staying the night..a small one person tent is much nicer than a bivy...the tent you posted was very nice..i would also consider the hubba by msn or one of the smaller tents by big angus.

or, again, contact integeral designs and have them custom build one for ya for about the same price.

something like this http://www.integraldesigns.com/produ...roducttypeid=2 more room than a small bivy, some dry out space..still small, light, packable..and a single wall....(not great if you are using it in hot humid conditions.....)

#18 10-28-2007, 11:23 AM

I just prefer the Hilleberg because of the weight. It's a full two pounds lighter than the Integral and has tons of vestible storage. That and it's cheaper! Their tents are as good as any I've seen.

TheClash · #19 10-28-2007, 11:55 AM

very good points.....the only reason i was suggesting integral is that A. they are local. B. i know the guys and the customer service is incredible and C. the poster said price isno object..therefore going custom would be an option...meaning he/she can control the weight vs options and get exactly what they are looking for. don't get me wrong i like the hilleberg. great product.

i am not 100% sold on kerlon though..i have never used it....but i have repaired it and i have talked with others that use it. extremely breathable..and the coating they use is good...but nowhere near as bombproof as todtex.....so for high, cold and wet i am choosing todtex everytime.....for warmer, humid areas then the kerlon would be a much better choice.

calgarychef · #20 10-28-2007, 09:03 PM

If you go to the MEC website and look in the part where used gear can be sold there is an area where you can advertise for a trip partner. I sent in an e-mail looking for trip partner who wanted to canoe a northern river with my buddy and I while we were hunting for moose. I was told that they wouldn't permit this posting. I asked why and they said "your doesn't fit with our theme of self propelled wilderness camping" I pointed out that we were going to be canoeing and that it was definately self propelled and indeed extreme wilderness camping. I then asked how I should word my post to fit with their standards. They replied that I should remove the word HUNTING from my post.

So don't for a second suggest they aren't against hunting.

the chef

#21 10-28-2007, 09:06 PM

Can you send me a copy of that e-mail chef...I'd be interested in asking them about it and possibly writing something. Last time hunters got up in arms, they sure changed their policy.

gunman300 · #22 10-29-2007, 07:47 AM

I found myself in the same boat as ALTABERG on this. I have and Outbound bivy I picked up at Campers Village. I used it las week and the entire inside was soaked with condensation. My sleeping bag was soaked about half way through. I unzipped it as far as it would go and that somewhat helped on the top half of the bag but my feet got wet. Luckily it was only about -5 so I didn't get too cold.

Reeves1 · #23 10-29-2007, 08:14 AM

I picked up a mummy bag (full synthetic) bivi and the long therm-a-rest, (one inch thick). Back in the early 80s. Never had a wet/sweating problem with it. I have slept in temps below -40 with no problems (winter camping on lakes/ice fishing mostly).
But during hunting season I always felt like a sausage roll in the bush (bears).
So picked up a "two man" tent. Weight is under 3lbs. Made me feel more "free" when that Grizz was sniffing my tent at Pinto Lake !

Edit: yes, that night I did sweat !