all-around stopping rifle for canoe trip

[albertacowboy]

Next year my son and I will be making some canoe trips in the wilds not part of parks, and I want to carry a stopping rifle in the Royalex Prospector canoe for camp at night. I'm thinking of a new Model 70, either an Alaskan in .338 WM or a Safari in .375 H&H Magnum. This is not for food but for predator defence, along with bear spray. I haven't fired either round, as I normally shoot a Rem700 BDL in .300 WM, but I love my pre-'64 Model 70 in .30-'06 and am leaning toward the Safari with its 24-inch barrel. I suspect that the recoil would be not much more with the .375 over the .338.

Both are blued/wood rifles, as the Laminated/Stainless Alaskan seems to be a Shot Show special. In the canoe, I plan to keep the rifle oiled and in a waterproof floater case.

I would appreciate all comments, especially those which will help to tell me if my opinions are reasonable or full of BS. I am a canoe newbie as well.

Many thanks, Albertacowboy.

[Cal]

I do plenty of canoe trips, my gun of choice is a .22 for shooting those damn ravens! Never had any other critters bother me.

Seriously though, canoes can beat up firearms pretty good. Up till this year I hunted with a Stainless/ Laminate .270 on week long wilderness hunts from my canoe, a couple of times the gun got wet enough that the laminate stock swole up. This year I am using a Rem 7600 with a synthetic stock, its not stainless but the gun is so friggin ugly if it happens to rust despite my best efforts I see it as no great loss.

If your bringing a nice gun make it a stainless synthetic or else bring a cheap gun you dont care about. My recomendation would be a 12 gauge defender, keep it well saturated in oil, I once watched my buddies savage go from like new condition to looking like a war relic in 3 days on a canoe hunt where he forgot to bring oil.

[PoppaW]

With room an issue look at the Ruger Alaskan in 375. 20" bbl and maybe a shade lighter. Very good irons on it for just what your going to do. If you are stuck on the Winchesters I would take the time to find a stainless laminate and shorten the barrel. Either 338 or 375 will be a solid choice. I have not seen what the Win sights look like.

[Twisted Canuck]

If it's just for predator protection issues, I'd lean towards an 870 12 guage, with marine finish & slugs.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ne-magnum.aspx

The Mossberg 500 JIC (Just in case....) in marine would be my second choice.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28

It will only be used close up, and it can handle the moisture fairly well, and a lot quicker to rack than work a bolt. Just my own preference. If you're set on the M70, either cartridge you mentioned will get the job done as well.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

If it's just for predator protection issues, I'd lean towards an 870 12 guage, with marine finish & slugs.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ne-magnum.aspx

The Mossberg 500 JIC (Just in case....) in marine would be my second choice.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28

It will only be used close up, and it can handle the moisture fairly well, and a lot quicker to rack than work a bolt. Just my own preference. If you're set on the M70, either cartridge you mentioned will get the job done as well.

I have to second this.

A nice short-barrelled 12 gauge shotgun /w/ buck and slugs would be a perfect firearm to pack on a canoeing trip.

[fordtruckin]

other than the obvious marlin issues of late, I wouldn't be opposed to a Stainless Marlin in 45/70 or .450marlin. If I could handle the recoil I'd probably go for a 338win mag as I imagine ammo is a bit cheaper and more readibly available.

[densa44]

There is no such thing as a dry canoe. The gun will have to be secured to the canoe if you go over, you want everything to be kept together. A floating case may just have it float off when you may need it the most.

My choice would be the 22 then the 870.

Deet is your most important requirement. The 870 can be used on some of those skeeters, #8 shot may be light.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by densa44

There is no such thing as a dry canoe. The gun will have to be secured to the canoe if you go over, you want everything to be kept together. A floating case may just have it float off when you may need it the most.

My choice would be the 22 then the 870.

Deet is your most important requirement. The 870 can be used on some of those skeeters, #8 shot may be light.

Its not so much the water in the canoe, but once you get water in the case the gun pretty much stays wet for the rest of the trip. Maby its different if you arent actualy hunting but in my exprience even with a waterproof case water gets in because except in rough water or other dangerouse conditions I leave the end open so that I can get my gun out quick. On a river trip I am sometimes constantly opening and closing the end of the case as I paddle depending on what the river is doing, waterproof cases are usualy slow to open and close so i prefer not to use them. I tie the case in real good, you want the case to stay with the canoe in the event of a capsize, not float off. The gun needs to be in that case regardless of if its wet or not so you dont lose it in a capsize or beat it up climbing over it on less than ideal landings, when it spends enough time in a wet case your stock swells up. After a few of these episodes the grain starts to raise, you see bubbles in the finish, and you need to refinish the stock.

The marine grade 12 gauge was a pretty good suggestion, I forgot about those things.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Cal

Its not so much the water in the canoe, but once you get water in the case the gun pretty much stays wet for the rest of the trip. Maby its different if you arent actualy hunting but in my exprience even with a waterproof case water gets in because except in rough water or other dangerouse conditions I leave the end open so that I can get my gun out quick. On a river trip I am sometimes constantly opening and closing the end of the case as I paddle depending on what the river is doing, waterproof cases are usualy slow to open and close so i prefer not to use them. I tie the case in real good, you want the case to stay with the canoe in the event of a capsize, not float off. The gun needs to be in that case regardless of if its wet or not so you dont lose it in a capsize or beat it up climbing over it on less than ideal landings, when it spends enough time in a wet case your stock swells up. After a few of these episodes the grain starts to raise, you see bubbles in the finish, and you need to refinish the stock.

The marine grade 12 gauge was a pretty good suggestion, I forgot about those things.

I know a fellow who fishes for salmon out of Nanaimo, and noticed one on his boat. Been there for many years, never ever cleaned or looked after, and for a filthy gun it still looked pretty good. Not any surface rust I could see, a bit of pitting around the receiver is all. He kept it for 'pirates'......of the seal variety I'd guess.

[Kurt505]

Cheap mossberg 12ga shotgun with slugs.

[silver]

Right now, my go to gun is a BRNO 602 in 458 winchester, I dont expect many others to see it my way. Other than that, I would go with a 12 gauge pump, 3 inch or 3 1/2 inch shooting slugs. Pick a gun in stainless and a synthetic stock. When I bought my 870 magnum, I also bought a clamp on sight for the top rib. If you look hard enough, you might find a rifled choke, which would give you a modern day Paradox. Good luck.

[rainman]

a cheap 12 guage you are not scared to wreck...slug ssg slug ssg etc

[Big Daddy Badger]

With what you already have...I wouldn't rush out to buy a new rifle especially one that you will have less experience with.

[ishootbambi]

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

x2 on this... kinda what I was getting at with the .22 remark. I've been wilderness camping in Alaska, the Yukon, and NWT and nothing has ever motivated me to cary a gun, or even bear spray, unless I'm actualy hunting.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

I agree....that being said I bought A Rossi Ranch Hand in 44 mag....just in case

LC

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

While I agree that 99.9% of the time there is no need to worry about bears, I have to admit that when I'm in the bear woods with my young children and wife, I feel much better with a firearm, even if only a .22 or .223. I've been charged by bears with their jaws snapping and it's an un-nerving experience, add a 9yr old to the mix and it's one of those times that if you don't have a gun, you sure wish you did. As a kid we had a cabin in the woods and I remember one time in particular when my father got trapped in the cabin for hours by a sow with cubs. A firearm would have gotten him out of the cabin much sooner. Any boy scout will tell you, "be prepared".

[densa44]

All the ones I've met in the woods, saw me carrying a fly rod very exciting, but I didn't want to carry a gun addition to my fishing equip.

They all ran from me when I let them know where I was.

[220swifty]

Dammit Dale, stop snuffing out the rationalizations we all run past our wives to buy new guns.

[Mekanik]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

X2

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Dammit Dale, stop snuffing out the rationalizations we all run past our wives to buy new guns.

More importantly x2

[cmdalexander]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

Dale, I could not agree more. If you are that scared of the bears, you should probably stay out of the woods!

Scared people with guns, scare me.

"I feel much better with a firearm, even if only a .22 or .223. I've been charged by bears with their jaws snapping and it's an un-nerving experience, add a 9yr old to the mix and it's one of those times that if you don't have a gun, you sure wish you did. As a kid we had a cabin in the woods and I remember one time in particular when my father got trapped in the cabin for hours by a sow with cubs. A firearm would have gotten him out of the cabin much sooner"

Not sure what the .22 would do? Make the bear more upset probably. Not sure i follow your rational, other then that guns make you feel safer.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by cmdalexander

Dale, I could not agree more. If you are that scared of the bears, you should probably stay out of the woods!

Scared people with guns, scare me.

What about guys who aren't scared but have guns and are ready to lay the smack down if Yogi gets too cocky?

....those guys scare me more

I recall one time sheep hunting when the guy I was helping was putting a spot and stalk on some sheep....he had the only gun.

There I was laying on top of the mountain watching him stalk the sheep through the spotting scope when something occured to me.....I have no protection, no spray, no gun, no nothing and he was over a KM away....we got a sheep and never saw a bear but the next time I am in that situation.....I will have something, hopefully a sheep tag and he can lay out in the open with only a couple backpacks and a spotting scope

LC

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

get a red rider BB gun

[Speckle55]

I am not scared of bears but have respect and a male black bear near me i want my gun .. i wonder how many of these people would of loved to have a gun with them..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America

Food for Thought

David

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

I am not scared of bears but have respect and a male black bear near me i want my gun .. i wonder how many of these people would of loved to have a gun with them..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America

Food for Thought

David

Well quite a few of em did.

Carry the gun you use the most if you must.
I'd bring a 22 and a maybe a center fire rifle just in case I needed to forage or something but you don't need a great big rifle to frighten or drop a bear even a grizzly.

Your 30-06 is more than enough rifle considering the very remote odds that you will need it at all.

And your list proves that by the way.

Less than 200 people in the last 100 years by all species in North America.
How many were paying attention to their surroundings or doing something stupid?
How many more bears were there a hundred years ago?
How many people have visited the bush in the last 100 years and managed to NOT get eaten by a bear?

You have a better chance of drowning in your own tub but I'll bet you wouldn't wear a life jacket in the shower.

By all means carry your rifle...I just wouldn't spend too much time expecting to need it or believing it will do you any good if it isn't loaded, cocked and in your both hands if a bear decides to eat ya.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by cmdalexander

Scared people with guns, scare me.

.

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

What about guys who aren't scared but have guns and are ready to lay the smack down if Yogi gets too cocky?

....those guys scare me more

LC

agree completely. the first thing i think of is someone ripping bullets into the trees becasue they heard a twig snap in the wind. ill take my chances with the bears.....they are more predictable.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cal

I've been wilderness camping in Alaska, the Yukon, and NWT and nothing has ever motivated me to cary a gun, or even bear spray, unless I'm actualy hunting.

I hang out a fair bit in the "wilds" of the NWT and I don't go for a chit without a rifle when I'm out there

[roger]

id be leaning towards the ruger number 1..they also work as a rifle when your not using it as a paddle!!!

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

for all the irrational fear of bears on this site, i have to wonder how many AO members have ever actually had a problem bear cause enough concern to need to shoot it? i just dont understand the bearanoia.

Respect for bears is not irrational and wanting to protect oneself and their child against an aggressive bear is not bearanoia!

I would also suggest a 12 guage pump with the slug, ssg combo for ammo and also would pack along a can of bear spray.

[1899b]

Used to canoe the Clearwater and Christina rivers when I lived in McMurray. Always had a Savage 99 in a leather scabbard lashed to the yoke or thwart.