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11-15-2019, 06:28 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Deal Breaker. But is it a ripoff
I already know what to do, but I want to understand.
Could this be an innocent mistake?
I put a deposit on a truck at a dealership in Edmonton. Price was okay, truck had most of what I was looking for, so I asked if they would hold it until I could make my way down there.
They said they'd need a deposit so I paid that. All good so far.
Then today my bank tells me there's a lien against that vehicle so I call the salesman I've been dealing with. He doesn't return my call.
So I wait three hours then call again.
This time I get him on the line. He insists there is no lien on this vehicle. Says the banks information is wrong, he'll send me papers to prove it.
I tell him his papers are useless to me. If the system shows a lien on the vehicle I can't register it no matter what his papers show.
I tell him the deal is off unless he gets that lien removed from the record.
Sales manager calls back tells me the same thing. I explain that even if what he says is true, it does me no good so long as the system shows there is a lien. Again he says there is no lien and he will send papers to prove it.
So after the call ends I run the VIN through the Alberta titles search and it comes back that there is a lien on it out of Burnaby BC and that lien was registered in 2014 and is still current.
So my question is, how could this dealer not know this. And, does he really believe that his papers trump what the Alberta government says?
I'm thinking no. But I'm not an insider. Is any of what he is saying even possible?
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 752
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If you paid the deposit by credit card, call and see if they'll cancel the charge. Mom had to do that a few years ago when she put a deposit on a brand new Ford SportTrac that they then drove down from Ft. McMurray to deliver.
As for the salesman, he's a salesman. They make a living lying and BSing people. He probably knew all about it but won't admit it because that would make for a surefire AMVIC case against him.
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11-15-2019, 06:49 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssyd
If you paid the deposit by credit card, call and see if they'll cancel the charge. Mom had to do that a few years ago when she put a deposit on a Ford SportTrac that they then drove down from Ft. McMurray to deliver.
As for the salesman, he's a salesman. They make a living lying and BSing people. He probably knew all about it but won't admit it because that would make for a surefire AMVIC case against him.
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I did use my credit card and I did call the card company. They said the payment has been processed so they can't help me.
Another salesman told me to report it to the motor vehicals branch, he claimed a dealer can loose his license for trying to sell a vehicle with a lien on it.
But like you say, they all wil do and say wahtever it takes to make a sale.
What I don't understand is how he can claim that he knew nothing about the lien. Isn't it his responsability to know. Could the lien search be wrong?
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 06:51 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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I know now that I should have run the VIN before agreeing to a deposit.
But I haven't bought a lot of vehicles. I've never ran into this before.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: RED DEER
Posts: 130
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CAR FAX and Out of Province Inspection report would have caught this.If you have any grief from them call AMVIC But sometimes trade in do not get a formal letter of no interest filed to removed the lien from the system .Give them a chance to make this right.Ask for discount as well .
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11-15-2019, 06:57 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,424
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Lying bottom feeders
They lied about the lien, what else are they lying about? Unless you really want that particular truck, cancel the transaction and go elsewhere.
Which dealership pulled this on you?
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell
“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
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11-15-2019, 07:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban rednek
They lied about the lien, what else are they lying about? Unless you really want that particular truck, cancel the transaction and go elsewhere.
Which dealership pulled this on you?
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The dealership name probably starts with "GO" 
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11-15-2019, 07:38 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy
The dealership name probably starts with "GO" |
Not that one.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 07:42 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,247
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If he doesn’t give you your money back soon give us the business number and we can all call and bombard them for the next week.
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Never celebrate till you got your knife stuck in it !
Some times you catch the Big fish, some times you get stuck in Chip
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11-15-2019, 07:45 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 719
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Contact AMVIC.
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11-15-2019, 07:46 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromcanmore
CAR FAX and Out of Province Inspection report would have caught this.If you have any grief from them call AMVIC But sometimes trade in do not get a formal letter of no interest filed to removed the lien from the system .Give them a chance to make this right.Ask for discount as well .
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I found it through registrysearch.ca which is supposed to be a government site. I would think it routine for a dealer to do an out of province search.
They could wind up on the hook for the lien if they don't wouldn't they?
Nothing I can do till Monday anyway so might as well give them a chance, but this delays any other possible deal which I'm not too happy about.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
Not that one.
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I Bet its a gm dealer in the edmonton and says Capital in the dealerships name
Pin
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11-15-2019, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Parkland County
Posts: 2,382
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Good buddy of mine was looking at buying a 3/4 ton truck out of Lloyd just yesterday. On a whim he got a Carfax with a lien search. It turned out to have a $114,000 some lien on it.
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And unlike the clock on the wall at your momma house, I do not have time to hang.
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11-15-2019, 08:02 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 861
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There could be a mix up with the VIN. I would ask them to verify that it is correct to the vehicle and then go and recheck again on there side. Go right to the vehicle and make sure it matches the paperwork.
They could be one letter or number off on the VIN somewhere along the line. Small chance but is possible.
Still human error involved when putting info into a system. I think that there response so far is poor.
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11-15-2019, 08:07 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB
Contact AMVIC.
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That's what a salesman at another deler told me to do.
But online reports don't offer much help in them doing anything.
At any rate I'm not at that point yet. I will give them a chance to get the lien removed and if that doesn't happen by the middle of next week I do expect my deposit back. Only after exausting those avenues will I take the matter up with AMVIC or our lawyer.
I just want to understand how this could happen. I had thought that buying from a dealer meant no liens to deal with. Obviously that is wrong.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 08:10 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogie
There could be a mix up with the VIN. I would ask them to verify that it is correct to the vehicle and then go and recheck again on there side. Go right to the vehicle and make sure it matches the paperwork.
They could be one letter or number off on the VIN somewhere along the line. Small chance but is possible.
Still human error involved when putting info into a system. I think that there response so far is poor.
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A VIN search came back with the correct vehical and showed the last owner and who holds that lien.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 08:11 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstubbs
Good buddy of mine was looking at buying a 3/4 ton truck out of Lloyd just yesterday. On a whim he got a Carfax with a lien search. It turned out to have a $114,000 some lien on it.
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Yikes! That's a lot of green.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 08:15 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Crowsnest Pass
Posts: 2,392
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Truck
Provide the name of Lein holder to the dealership, it is up to them to get a release letter. Provide the same info to a AMVIC, and make them aware of the situation, in the event you need assistance to complete the deal, or have your deposit refunded.
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11-15-2019, 08:21 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurly
Provide the name of Lein holder to the dealership, it is up to them to get a release letter. Provide the same info to a AMVIC, and make them aware of the situation, in the event you need assistance to complete the deal, or have your deposit refunded.
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Is a release letter going to satisfy the registry's office when I go to register it in my name?
Providing what I have to AMVIC may be a good move. At least it puts them on notice that there is a problem with this deal.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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11-15-2019, 08:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 117
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I had this happen to me as well. The lien holder failed to remove the lien even though it was paid off properly. Was a surprise to my dealer as well, but it was s simple call to the lien holder that in turn provided a discharge letter and later completed removal of the lien.
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11-15-2019, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Crowsnest Pass
Posts: 2,392
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Truck
The release letter, should be faxed to registry, by the lein holder, as well as a copy to yu, stating they no longer have an interest in said vehicle.
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11-15-2019, 08:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 4,321
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This! Or even from a timing perspective if took on trade. Takes 3-5 weeks to release PPSA. A few banks don’t. It’s a pita lol. Dealers can’t sell vehicles with liens period and are responsible. Get a letter from dealer that vehicle is clear of all liens, bring him the lien check when u close deal. Now you have recourse in a worst case scenario which is rare to say the least on a reputable dealer who would never put themselves in that situation. They have this process down pat. As far as registering goes registry doesn’t care. Only one that cares is the one financing the vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badone20
I had this happen to me as well. The lien holder failed to remove the lien even though it was paid off properly. Was a surprise to my dealer as well, but it was s simple call to the lien holder that in turn provided a discharge letter and later completed removal of the lien.
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11-15-2019, 08:38 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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This is uncomfortable even to repeat - so many warning sirens on this one ....
A friend/former co-worker saw (on kijiji or something) and subsequently purchased, a Mercedes (small car hatchback) for a very good, unbelievable deal ! Only a few years old, low mileage, thousands lower than ones he saw on the internet.
He was excited.
His daughter will love her graduation gift. Worst thing is .... he paid cash ...... !!!! You already know how this one turns out but let me give a few details that make me laugh just thinking about listening to your gut sometimes.
It was from one of those small dumpy sketchy car lots with a name like "ABC Sales" or something nefarious sounding.
The way he described it was funny and still makes me laugh .... those silly streamer and banners strung up all over the lot, prices on the windows of the cars, those cardboard explosion sale! signs, and, literally one lonely guy in what looked to him to be a formerly recently abandoned office hut with dirty windows. To call it a run down shack would be an understatement. It had a porta potty around the side!!!
so ........ I love this part .......The guy was sitting there smoking a cigarette sitting in a mis-matched old office chair when he rolled in and the shark jumped up and butted his cig (waving off the smoke) and hurriedly putting on his tweed blazer as he walked in.
I told him I would have been out of there 5 minutes ago ..... but not this guy ....he really wanted that car for his kid ....
Guess what ....the car couldn't be registered because the VIN had been written off.
These guys are all crooks - liens, write offs, etc.. are easy to research and every one of these slime balls knows exactly what they are doing.
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11-15-2019, 08:40 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Crowsnest Pass
Posts: 2,392
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Truck
It will state on the back of th bill of sale that the described vehicle is free and clear of leins,m and or encumbrances. If not have it hand written and signed by the manager. You pay an AMVIC fee that will be on the bill of sale, you pay it, so they work for you.
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11-15-2019, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,424
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AMVIC is a joke the industry played on the consumer
If they are unable or unwilling to make this right for you, file the report, but don't expect any help from AMVIC if this deal goes bad. AMVIC is the automotive equivalent of the CMHC; while both are represented as organizations to protect the consumer, they only exist to fleece the consumer and protect their respective industry partners.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell
“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
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11-15-2019, 09:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,615
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I got screwed around too on a kijiji truck. The guy took a vin number off a grey chevy at an auction or something the same year and model as mine. Conveniently had the bill of sale made out for me and I trusted the guy and never checked the plate myself...long story short it was a salvage vehicle that wasn't insurable that I drove with improper insurance for a full year not knowing. I went to renew my registration and that's when we figured it all out. Luckily had the original texts on my phone and tracked the rotten bugger down and got my money back. Be very careful. I don't put a deposit on anything anymore. If it sells before I get to it then so be it. Hope you get it straightened out.
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11-15-2019, 09:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurly
It will state on the back of th bill of sale that the described vehicle is free and clear of leins,m and or encumbrances. If not have it hand written and signed by the manager. You pay an AMVIC fee that will be on the bill of sale, you pay it, so they work for you.
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And when the Sheriff comes to get it Keg has no recourse.
Failing to disclose a lien is a way out of a deposit but they will likely have it cleared shortly if they have any brains and morals.
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought..... 
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11-15-2019, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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I bought a truck from a dealer a few years ago. Went to register it and was told it came from Saskatchewan and would need an out of province inspection. The dealer did provide that though. Did end well.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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11-15-2019, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 390
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Are the searches tracked?
Dealership logs in, searches the VIN.
Proof of intentionally trying to sell a vehicle with a lien?
Does their paperwork have proof of a lien search (where & when)?
Last edited by Whipper Billy; 11-15-2019 at 09:58 PM.
Reason: spelling
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11-15-2019, 10:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipper Billy
Are the searches tracked?
Dealership logs in, searches the VIN.
Proof of intentionally trying to sell a vehicle with a lien?
Does their paperwork have proof of a lien search (where & when)?
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I could be wrong, but a dealer is under an obligation to deliver a vehicle with a clear title. There is a governing body.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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