Snowmobile trails and trappers

[Trailguy]

Hi guys and ladies. New here first post. I am a trail director of a ASA designated snowmobile trail in Alberta. My question is how can trappers and snowmobile trail clubs work together to make our wilderness experience the best for both of us?
Please dont attack me as I`m the good guy asking the question and want to learn how to work together. Can we groom your trail,sign the trail to stay off, clear your trail,bring firwewood etc. Timelines for activity or type of signage to make rider respect what they may find out there.
I think you guys have a good thing going and would really enjoy the activity but dont see it happening to myself. I do enjoy being out in the bush exploring and seeing parts of this province others never will.
Thanks will wait for the replys

[northerntrapper]

With all due respect.....no thanks.
Animals tend to move away from busy, noisy trails, which isn't exactly what I want on my trapline.

[Backwoods Runner]

I'd have to agree with "NORTHERN TRAPPER". The more activity the less animals tend to frequent. Although you seem to be respectful "TRAILGUY" I'm afraid you are a minority. We keep getting pushed further and further back into the bush to get away from prying eyes and vandilism but you just can't get far enough. I would have to suggest to try and stay clear of trapping operations if possible but we all have to play together.

[molly]

Originally Posted by Trailguy

Can we ...sign the trail to stay off. Timelines for activity or type of signage to make rider respect what they may find out there.

I think that may actually be of some benefit, especially in the really busy areas SW of Calgary, except that a lot of those recreational riders can't read signs. Not sure where you are? Thanks for at least thinking about trying to get along.

[sourdough doug]

Thanks, but no thanks.

Vandalism and destruction follow, hand in hand with easy access. There is always the bad apple in every barrel and the more barrels you have....well you know what comes next....
It's not that I couldn't use help in keeping the lines clear. Like many, I'm getting behind and I stopped holding my breath, waiting for any hunters to help, but still.....No Thanks....

[turbo mulcher]

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

Thanks, but no thanks.

Vandalism and destruction follow, hand in hand with easy access. There is always the bad apple in every barrel and the more barrels you have....well you know what comes next....
It's not that I couldn't use help in keeping the lines clear. Like many, I'm getting behind and I stopped holding my breath, waiting for any hunters to help, but still.....No Thanks....

I agree thanks but no thanks

[DC72]

No thanks, I think a DO NOT USE TRAIL sign is just asking for trouble and would last from noon till lunch time. It's just easier to try and fly below the radar when it comes to other users on a trapline

[Trailguy]

Thanks for the replys guys. I get it you want to have no recreation snowmobilers in your area. Problem is we are already there in most parts of Alberta. Same as oil/gas and logging which are also on the list of not wanted uses of your traplines. I`m already in this area of Alberta not looking to move in. So as I`m already established as a snowmobile trail and have been there for many years and am having no issues with trapper how do I continue to keep it on a positive working relationship. I am contacting the trappers along the trail just to let them know who and what is going on out there. They should already know as they spend more time out there than me.
There are many snowmobile clubs in Alberta and all of them have trails systems of some sort or another. Public land and private land.
Snowmobilers are somewhat like some of the fur animals you trap. If we see a track down a trail we have a interest to see where it goes. This exploring interest is what I see as a conflict in the making. What are some examples of what is working out there for you trappers to minimize the conflicts between snowmobilers and you? Some wants signage some don`t.
On our trail the trappers do use it to get from one area to another and then turn off down little tight trails. These tight trails may be the best way to stop a follower but may not be best for you to spend your day on. I have noticed that not many trappers are setting along major trails such as pipeline and powerline right of ways. Is this correct? If so would it be better for snowmobiles to stick to the big lines rather than the narrow cutlines? I`m just trying to figure out which may work the best for other snowmobile clubs in Alberta. Any info could be used to improve the relationship between snowmobilers and trappers. The future is coming fast and like it or not we have to all share the province the best we can. Snowmobiling also have the frustration dealing with oil and gas as well as logging as you guys do. We build a trail, clear it of fallen trees,sign it and groom it for a safer trail and some company ends up taking it over for a access road.ESRD are so busy dealing with other issues that it just gets forgotten to notify the snowmobile club till its to late. Trappers may be better off dealing with land use issues but issues still impact all of you someway or another.
Not looking to stir the pot or raise someones bloodpressure but I feel that there may be some ideas out there that could improve the way we all work together.
Thanks for reading and hope for somemore responses. Hopefully positive!!

[sourdough doug]

Originally Posted by Trailguy

Thanks for reading and hope for somemore responses. Hopefully positive!!

Are you by chance saying that your responses to date have not been positive...

[Trailguy]

Positive? I was hoping for maybe a bit more solutions of co-operation rather than the idea of "stay off the trapline". There is a need to work together and for partnerships more and more. All users working together is far better than working against each other. Don`t you think it would be? I was looking for ideas of better ways to work together with organized snowmobile trails and trapper traplines.

[Brian Bildson]

Trailguy thank you for reaching out to the trapping community looking for solutions to a societal problem. Forgive us if we're protective of our babies but unfortunately sharing trails has not usually worked out for us. All we need is one jerk to ruin all your trail riders reputations and cause significant grief to us.

But we can't ignore the problem. I think Molly is on to something in that the focus could start in areas that are already high traffic where trappers really have no choice and its to their benefit to cooperate.

Good luck and thanks for asking for input.

[Trailguy]

Thanks for the reply. guess I will just continue doing what I`m doing. Will continue getting ahold of the rest of the trappers along our "Snowmobile Line" LOL

Thanks guys and Ladies. May your traps be furry for all time.

[Brian Bildson]

The Kakwa area would be a good area for a test Lots of sledders

[jim summit]

I can imagine down south it can get crowded out in the forest with trappers and snowmobilers plus skiers. We don't seem to have a problem with multi use as our line is quite remote, 7 hrs north of Edmonton. But i used to trap in a area with high traffic, so i would cut the start of my trail just wide enough to get through with my narrow Tundra. Stopped all the explorers with wide trail machines.

Best of luck Trailguy, us trappers are very protective of the areas we spend our time through the winter. Kinda like our second home.

[KegRiver]

I no longer have a line, but when I did I would have preferred that only people I knew personally, travelled my trails. My line was remote so I seldom had anyone travel my trails. Even so I did loose some equipment to others.

Therefor I would agree, thanks but no thanks.

However.

I know is inevitable. Recreation trumps making a living in today's world.

So, one thing that could be done. I and most trappers I know don't trap every trail every year. Sort of like summer fallow on a farm.

If you could arrange, with the trapper, to restrict your activites to areas that trapper is not trapping that season, that might be a step in the right direction.

And if you could convince your members to stick to the designated trails. Absolutely no travel on active trapping trails. That would help, at least for me.

I know that most club members would not touch any of my sets and would probably improve my trails, intentionally or even unintentionally.

It's not your club members I would be most concerned about. It's the weekend cowboys that are not members but who follow your trails because they are nice to run on.

I know you can do nothing about that, but the suggestions I make would, I think, discourage them from using my trails and thus reduce the problems associated with the worst of that group.

The way I see it, the trouble makers are largely a lazy bunch and would follow the best trails most of the time. So by putting your trails through unused portions of the line and by not traveling on my trails you would, at least to some degree, channel the problem children away from my sets and equipment.

If I still had a trapline, I would appreciate that.

[sourdough doug]

What kind of insurance protection will be available to the trappers who WILL have need for the same...It is inevitable with the increase in usage that you prepare for this ....the ball is in your court..

[Trailguy]

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

What kind of insurance protection will be available to the trappers who WILL have need for the same...It is inevitable with the increase in usage that you prepare for this ....the ball is in your court..

Doug good question. Our club has a good insurance policy just don`t know how it would work for traplines. Private land protects the landowner for liability.ESRD wants it on Public Land. We need to have it before we can have a trail with the provincial association in both Private and Public lands. How it will cover for damage or theft I will ask our people. Give me some time and I will get back to ya. Good question.

[Trailguy]

Good ideas coming . Thanks. I agree sledders dont usually want to scratch their sled down a narrow trail. That would work
I keep our members informed as what not to do best I can. Will work on others in the future.
Snowmobile trails have issues as well and spring is coming and with that are Mud running ATVers. These are having a affect on us now. That group of users (ATVers) need a big education program. Our trail is pretty remote and have had minimal damage from them but I seen some activity on the far end that has me worried for the future of the trail condition and the trapper as well.
Thanks for replys

[danger7]

I am on both sides of the coin here and large lines such as pipelines and power lines would be the best bet for trail systems for sure. Signage to stay on marked trails and a little education for trail users would definitely help. We all worry about others on the trap line taking traps or disturbing sets but if we can keep the majority of traffic on signed trails instead of hitting every line along the way it may help in high traffic areas.

[Dog hunter]

From the hunting regs.Trappers’ Trails
Many trails on Crown lands are created and maintained by trappers. To avoid interference with trapline operations, recreationists are urged to avoid motorized use of trails marked with signs indicating “Active Trapline,” especially during trapping seasons of November through February.

[sourdough doug]

[QUOTE=Dog hunter;1920076]From the hunting regs.Trappers’ Trails

"are urged to avoid".......like preaching to the choir, let this one go , just like the snow

[Dog hunter]

I agree Doug I was reading the regs this morning and noticed this paragraph then remembered this thread and thought I'd stick it on here,seems the gov thinks it is common courtesy to avoid trappers trails

[Trailguy]

Thanks for the responses. I have contacted all the trappers along the trail except 1. All appreciate my interest in communicating with them. I am going to try a few things this next season such as promoting this area more in late season and will put up some signage to promote stay on the trail. Not going to call them trapper trails just to recommend to stay on marked trails. We are still out there riding still this weekend. I have followed some trapper trails and found them to narrow for our type of riding. I will recommend we stick to promoting pipelines and larger lines. Keep off the trapper trails and minimize the impact we have to the area.
We even had a trapper offer us use of his cabin if we ever needed it. Nice but I will avoid it best we can. Was also asked by another to check up on his cabin when we go by just to check in on it and report back to him.
A question I had was to ask about insurance. We have commercial liability insurance that covers liability on our trails. What do trappers have to carry for liability insurance for your trails on public land? Does you provincial association have a group insurance policy? ESRD have a pile of requirements for us.
Do you guys need a survey on your cabins? Big cost to the clubs with them.

Thanks for the responses hope your spring season is a good furry one. Seen some beaver activity last weekend. You guys better get busy. Watch for flood water on the rivers.

[Trailguy]

Originally Posted by Dog hunter

I agree Doug I was reading the regs this morning and noticed this paragraph then remembered this thread and thought I'd stick it on here,seems the gov thinks it is common courtesy to avoid trappers trails

Government does dick squat to promote this idea. I will talk to our snowmobile association (ASA) about this. May make a difference. I have lost a lot of hope that the government does anything good.