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  #61  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
3006 will do it all, as will a 280, 7mag, 300 mag, etc.
I have an older friend in B.C. who hunts everything with a 375 H&H and has killed everything from Antelope to Grizzlies plus some African game with it.
Cat
I also vote for the .375 H&H, load it big or load it small. Will do it all.
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  #62  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:59 PM
Ariu Ariu is offline
 
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I don't know about powder efficiency, but when it comes to "do it all" 30-06 gets my vote. I load it with 150ttsx and have shot successfully deer, elk and moose. I also loaded some 110gn bullets for that coyote hunt that never happen.
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  #63  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:00 PM
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35 Whelen. 06 brass with a lot more smack and it's not even close. 225 AB in the Whelen shoots right along with many of the bigger magnum and non magnums mentioned here and is a lot more pleasant to shoot.

And anyone shooting at g bears at 350 is a loon to toss out some of the cartridges suggested here. Grendel? . Yes it CAN be done but probably shouldn't be.

Quick look at the Yukon and Alaska recommends pretty much says it all. Probably not a lot of guides on Kodiak will let you off the boat packing any kind of under .308 bullet and even those are going to earn some chuckles. Or smacks. Take your pick.
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  #64  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ariu View Post
I don't know about powder efficiency, but when it comes to "do it all" 30-06 gets my vote. I load it with 150ttsx and have shot successfully deer, elk and moose. I also loaded some 110gn bullets for that coyote hunt that never happen.

Lots of do it all's out there to choose from.
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  #65  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Puma View Post
I also vote for the .375 H&H, load it big or load it small. Will do it all.

Def one of the better recommends in this thread but not so much when it comes to powder use. Powder per horsepower it's pretty tough to beat.
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  #66  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
in capable hands then lets just settle on the 45/70....

Now now. Not everyone wants to aim at the moon to hit a target at 350.
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  #67  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
300wsm all day every day.

I found a great deal on a 325wsm and went that route. It's pretty similar to 300wsm.
Impressive to say the least. 200gr accubond with 65gr of r17 going 2900fps.
For everything in Alberta including tough animals at 350 yds I will agree with you on those two cartridges.
I have both and would not hesitate to use them on a toughest animal we have here at those ranges.

S12
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  #68  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:37 PM
dave99 dave99 is offline
 
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Default Efficient BG Cartridge to do it all.

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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
KE is a result of weight and motion or velocity. so the 300 Win mag wins. It delivers much more energy to its destination than a .308 or a 30-06.
A 30-06 is efficient , until it has to go to work and deliver a substantially greater amount of energy,- then the 300 Win takes over. The .308 Win even more lacking than the -06. The governing body's are Chamber pressure and case capacities. A smaller amount of powder used in a small cartridge case does not necessarily make it efficient when it comes delivering High energy bullets. They get super high velocity with their lighter bullets, but not much energy. Hope this makes sense. lol

But you just moved the goal posts to basically look for the cartridge that delivers the highest KE, and not the highest KE PER GRAIN of powder burned.

It doesn’t take any calculation to realize that a .300 win will deliver higher KE than a .308, at all ranges (assuming constant bullet).


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Last edited by dave99; 01-15-2021 at 10:56 PM.
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  #69  
Old 01-15-2021, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
Powder to run my hunting cartridges is not the issue, neither is the price of the bullets, considering the amount I use every year.
The amount of powder I burn on the range in my match rifles is a different story.

Cat
I am with Cat on this one.
I've shot 2 hunting bullets in the last two years. One was Bull Moose and one WT Buck...Both filled the freezer.
Moose, Deer and Pork sausage 2020 ..200 lbs Drying before smoking

After smoking
From field to the table

No lead in those ones


Andrew
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  #70  
Old 01-16-2021, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Homesteader View Post
I'll vote 308 win, not that far off the 06 and definitely less powder. Choose the right bullet and it will work, 7-08 same thing probably.

Perhaps too light for Buffalo
Not with one in the mind....
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  #71  
Old 01-16-2021, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dubious View Post
Ironically Iclund used to beat us all to death with powder efficient cartridges and diagrams no one wanted to hear before he got banned. Fast forward a bit and it Looks like he may have been onto something with the powder shortages.
You should see what he is doing with PRC necked to 277, a Humdinger.....
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  #72  
Old 01-16-2021, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
308. Will kill anything in NA and uses less powder than 30-06.
I agree .308 Win is my choice.
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  #73  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Faststeel View Post
Not with one in the mind....
It wouldn't be my first choice, and honestly buff is never on my mind as an Alberta animal, mostly because I'm old. I don't even know if the Regulations allow it to be used, and I don't care I do however believe that if you stoked it up with a 168g ttsx, and shot a buffalo broadside at 350, you should be prepared for a days work of skinning and packing. Dead is dead. Same goes for Griz, it's not on my mind as a game animal in Alberta, but a 308 will still handly kill one i'm sure, not my first choice, and I haven't gone back to reread the op, but pretty sure it said most efficient with something to do with high powder prices, which begs the answer of what can do the most with the least.

I'll stand by the 308 as my answer.
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  #74  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dave99 View Post
But you just moved the goal posts to basically look for the cartridge that delivers the highest KE, and not the highest KE PER GRAIN of powder burned.

It doesn’t take any calculation to realize that a .300 win will deliver higher KE than a .308, at all ranges (assuming constant bullet).


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Here is the calculation I used, subject to more forensics. as it could be out some.

1/2 bullet weight x terminal velocity squared divided by the amount of powder (grs) it used to obtain that velocity with that particular cartridge and bullet weight.

I used common heavy for caliber bullets and 26 in. bbls for each cartridge.

Anyway ,it was just an exercise to check a theory I had about smaller cartridges and lighter bullet weights. Apparently some disagree.
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  #75  
Old 01-16-2021, 07:17 AM
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You asked for the most efficient big game caliber for all alberta big game based on cost per round/ cost of powder per round. You didn't ask for stopping power or highest KE round for charge weight you asked for most efficient based on powder charge..ie because of rising cost of powder....308/7-08 is king here hands down.
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  #76  
Old 01-16-2021, 07:27 AM
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You asked for the most efficient big game caliber for all alberta big game based on cost per round/ cost of powder per round. You didn't ask for stopping power or highest KE round for charge weight you asked for most efficient based on powder charge..ie because of rising cost of powder....308/7-08 is king here hands down.
Suggest you read my initial post, just one more time.
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  #77  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:46 AM
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Suggest you read my initial post, just one more time.
Yup....338-06....
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  #78  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Suggest you read my initial post, just one more time.
It's not worth my time arguing with you
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  #79  
Old 01-16-2021, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
KE is a result of weight and motion or velocity. so the 300 Win mag wins. It delivers much more energy to its destination than a .308 or a 30-06.
A 30-06 is efficient , until it has to go to work and deliver a substantially greater amount of energy,- then the 300 Win takes over. The .308 Win even more lacking than the -06. The governing body's are Chamber pressure and case capacities. A smaller amount of powder used in a small cartridge case does not necessarily make it efficient when it comes delivering High energy bullets. They get super high velocity with their lighter bullets, but not much energy. Hope this makes sense. lol

I usually quite like your posts and threads but this one has me asking what you are actually doing. You keep changing the parameters and measures of this question to keep telling people they are wrong but you are also invalidating your own previous answers, a couple of which you haven't even interpreted your own results correctly. IF K/grains of powder is the measure the 460 Weatherby Mag wins, and if it is K at 350 yards, the 460 Weatherby is still the winner. That seems like a LONG ways off your original question.
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  #80  
Old 01-16-2021, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Faststeel View Post
You should see what he is doing with PRC necked to 277, a Humdinger.....
I have always been if the mind that shooter accuracy trumps any slight changes (or not so slight ) of a cartridge or caliber design, be it wildcat ,, proprietary or factory, and it has been proven many times over.
I used to wildcat because it was fun and interesting , not because the cartridges I was running were " better"" than anything on the market.

As far as efficiency goes, the cartridges and rifles I choose to hunt with are absolutely adequate for what I demand of them, not "perfect" , but nothing is, especially the nut behind the bolt!
I am however happy with my choices and have complete confidence in them in them and myself when hunting , and I think that us the most important part.
Cat
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  #81  
Old 01-16-2021, 09:49 AM
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IMHO, on caliber alone, I agree with the big 3 and you can buy them in any hardware store in Canada, should you forget or run out. And they won't break the bank shooting them:

30-06
308
270

Everyone here will agree that bullet placement is always the key to success.
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  #82  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
You asked for the most efficient big game caliber for all alberta big game based on cost per round/ cost of powder per round. You didn't ask for stopping power or highest KE round for charge weight you asked for most efficient based on powder charge..ie because of rising cost of powder....308/7-08 is king here hands down.

.308 and 7-08 as efficient for ALL Ab big game? You hunt the northwest as do I, and are aware of what a hunter "can" run into there. Saying a .308 and 7-08 are efficient killers of larger predators is just not correct. Capable of killing, maybe, but efficient means recommended for.

.22's have killed large bears but, nobody in their right mind would "recommend" one for the job. Neither do smart hunters reach for either of the two you mentioned when hunting g bears. They're out there. I see lots while elk hunting the Simonette. I prefer to carry a rifle I dont have to "guess" might get the job done if things got nasty. 7-08 and 308 aren't ever going to be on that list.
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  #83  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:14 AM
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Now now. Not everyone wants to aim at the moon to hit a target at 350.
windage too...bonus is you can have a sammich by time it gets there too
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  #84  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
You asked for the most efficient big game caliber for all alberta big game based on cost per round/ cost of powder per round. You didn't ask for stopping power or highest KE round for charge weight you asked for most efficient based on powder charge..ie because of rising cost of powder....308/7-08 is king here hands down.
grizz calibres….not my first choice but better than hand to hand...OP wants effective,efficient for all berta game...better choices out there...350 rem mag?
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  #85  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:25 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I usually quite like your posts and threads but this one has me asking what you are actually doing. You keep changing the parameters and measures of this question to keep telling people they are wrong but you are also invalidating your own previous answers, a couple of which you haven't even interpreted your own results correctly. IF K/grains of powder is the measure the 460 Weatherby Mag wins, and if it is K at 350 yards, the 460 Weatherby is still the winner. That seems like a LONG ways off your original question.
It appears I may have omitted some criteria in my original post or, quite possibly, an error in my calculations.
You're right .The .460 Wby/300 gr, shouldn't even be a close contender -
with a 300 gr bullet delivering a mere 1957 KE at 350 yds while consuming about 130 grs of powder.
Maybe my numeric list is printed backwards. I'll check... or better yet , I'll leave the calcs to about 15 other guys who have published workable formulas, like Hatcher, Wooters and Ackley etc. I was just trying to make an
apparently pointless point. I apologize for the confusion. Now, back to the Covid BS.
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  #86  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
windage too...bonus is you can have a sammich by time it gets there too

Too damn funny but pretty accurate. The statement i meant. Not the cartridge.

In all seriousness there aren't many, if any, I'd rather have in my hands if its one shot only, me or IT surviving to tell the story. Hard to beat a lever for speed as well if you're lucky and get 2 shots in close.

12 gauge maybe.
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  #87  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:03 AM
obsessed1 obsessed1 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
.308 and 7-08 as efficient for ALL Ab big game? You hunt the northwest as do I, and are aware of what a hunter "can" run into there. Saying a .308 and 7-08 are efficient killers of larger predators is just not correct. Capable of killing, maybe, but efficient means recommended for.

.22's have killed large bears but, nobody in their right mind would "recommend" one for the job. Neither do smart hunters reach for either of the two you mentioned when hunting g bears. They're out there. I see lots while elk hunting the Simonette. I prefer to carry a rifle I dont have to "guess" might get the job done if things got nasty. 7-08 and 308 aren't ever going to be on that list.

What cartridge do you use to hunt the north west alberta forests? I've never been under gunned carrying a 308 in my neck of the woods.
In alberta we can't hunt g bears so I don't really care what G bear hunters recommend for hunting them.
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  #88  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:30 AM
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In my mind to meet the parameters of the original post you would have to take the energy at 350 yards and divide that by the average powder charge to determine the efficiency of payload delivery. Here are the results of some common cartridges and bullet weights.

30-06, 180 gr, - 30.3 ft/lbs per grain of powder
300 WM, 200 gr, - 32.0 ft/lbs per grain of powder
338-06, 210 gr, - 34.0 ft/lbs per grain of powder
338 WM, 210 gr, - 29.6 ft/lbs per grain of powder
35 Whelen, 225 grain - 36.8 ft/lbs per grain of powder
375 H&H, 260 grain - 31.8 ft/lbs per grain of powder

It appears that the 338-06 and 35 Whelen are quite efficient at delivering a heavy payload with the least amount of powder.
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  #89  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:38 AM
Ruby76 Ruby76 is offline
 
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My cartridge is burning 59 grains of powder with 4113 foot pounds at the muzzle and 2785 foot pounds at 350 yards.

That’s 47.2 foot pounds per grain at 350 yards.
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  #90  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:50 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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What cartridge do you use to hunt the north west alberta forests? I've never been under gunned carrying a 308 in my neck of the woods.
In alberta we can't hunt g bears so I don't really care what G bear hunters recommend for hunting them.
Not that it's high on the probable or the concern list , but if you spend enough time in the bush in that country it's only a matter of time until you run into one or two.. In some areas it's a much higher probability than in others. Many years ago (60's) , I was a District Forest Ranger in much of the country S of Valleyview and S of Grande Prairie to the Wilmore and west to the BC border. In those days they were prevalent in areas closer to the Mountains. As you likely know they have expanded their territory extensively of late.

I can tell you this. If and when you do inadvertently bump in to one, depending on the circumstance, practically any gun you are carrying will seem woefully inadequate. If you know it is likely inadequate, well, 'nuff said.
My hunting buddy had one within 20 ft of him two years ago up in the Baytree area. It came in while he was calling Elk. Fortunately, it ended well.
The Boy Scouts said it best .. be prepared for the unlikely.
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