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  #1  
Old 01-10-2003, 12:29 PM
Fur prices
 
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Default Fur prices

Just wondering if anyone has any info regarding coyote and fox prices from the past sales. More specifically prices paid directly by the fur auctions. You always hear about prices as paid by a middleman ie. ****kers. Top dollar is obviously paid at these auctions. Is there perhaps an auction website that would list prices.

Thanks for any info
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2003, 05:48 PM
fur prices
 
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Default fur prices

go to the albertatrappers web site and there is a link to the fur houses that buy furs from the ATA. Hope this helps.
Turney

www.albertatrappers.com
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2003, 12:54 PM
fur prices
 
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Default fur prices

The auction can be very deceiving. In January the average Heavy Western Coyotes averaged $70.00 CDN this is before you take of commisions and tumbling charges. Premium prices are not paid at the auction houses. I prefer to say that ****kers is paying top dollar for good fur
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2003, 01:31 AM
Turney
 
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Default Fur prices

I think taking furs to a place like ****kers is good for cash money but they will only pay you 50%-70% of what the pelt is worth. I like selling to the auction houses because if you do a good job skinning and the fur is prime you will get above average price. Just my opinion but ****kers is the last place i would take them too.
Turney
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2003, 10:09 AM
fur prices
 
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Default fur prices

I don't know how you handle your fur but I have talked to alot of guys and also have taken my own fur there. They are paying exactly what the auction is. Even higher sometimes. 50%-70% is way off pal
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2003, 01:41 PM
sheepless
 
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Default fur prices

I have been told that ****kers sells their furs in the NAFA auction. If this is true they have to give people less than what the auction pays or else they would't turn a profit. I do agree with bigtimber in that ****kers does pay well and it is cash in your pocket. When you send pelts into the auctions it takes months to get paid but you are ensured top dollar. At the most recent sale the coyotes averaged $75 and topped at over $200. I have never heard of ****ker paying more than $70.
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  #7  
Old 03-03-2003, 04:55 PM
fur prices still........
 
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Default fur prices still........

I know this for a fact that ****kers does not deal with the auction at all. In fact the best buyer that I have ever run into, I think his name is Jeff, believes that the auction is crooked. They have private buyers that they ship to. I saw Jeff pay $100 dollars for a coyote this year and he explained why he did. This guy knows his coyotes and he isn't afraid to back up his reasons why he pays what he pays. Coyotes averaged $75.00 on paper. If you take the commisions and tumbling fees of that you are at $66.75 and lower depending how many coyotes you send in. There is alot of things about the auction that people don't understand. I am just backing up a fur buyer who has been very good to me and about fifty other people I know. He isn't afraid to pay top dollar for well handled prime coyotes.
Big Timber
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  #8  
Old 03-03-2003, 05:23 PM
sheepless
 
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Default fur prices again...

In the past i have sent my coyotes to the auction. In light of what you have stated, i certainly wouldn't mind trying ****kers and at the very least see what they offer. How would i be able to get a hold of Jeff or one their buyers? I've got 12 coyotes ready to go that i was going to send to the next auction. Out of curiosity, Big Timber, how many coyotes did you take this year and what kind of prices did you get from ****kers?
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  #9  
Old 03-03-2003, 05:34 PM
coyote prices
 
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Default coyote prices

Sheepless their phone number is 474 5552 in Edmonton. I took 43 coyotes this year and I averaged just over $60.00. I don't know how you handle your fur but I do a pretty good job on mine. He doesn't like the junk that's for sure. He doesn't work on an average like most buyers. He'll tell you what they are worth without starting out lower. How did you do previously on the auction with your coyotes?
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  #10  
Old 03-03-2003, 06:11 PM
sheepless
 
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Default coyotes

43 that's great! I had 8 coyotes and 2 red fox in the NAFA sale last week so I should hear something soon from them. I got $260 as an advance payment when I first sent them, this amount is what the recieving depot assesses to be approximately 50% of the value. Are you trapping or shooting your coyotes? What area do you live in? All of mine are shot(22-250) in the Cochrane area where I live. But if prices remain high I may consider trapping next year. I'll post the prices I get for the coyotes/foxes when I find out.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2003, 01:32 PM
sheepless
 
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Default auction results

Just got my cheque from the most recent NAFA auction. Including my advance i recieved $606.20. This is after the 11% auction commision and drumming fees. I had 8 coyotes and 3 red fox in the sale. Coyotes were $88.80, $88.80, $85.84, $76.96, $71.04, $69.56, $63.84, and a damaged one for $39.96. The foxes went for $50.32, $37.00 and a damaged one for $20.72. The undamaged coyotes averaged $77.81. All of these animals were shot and i'm assuming if they were trapped/snared they would be worth even more.
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  #12  
Old 03-14-2003, 10:37 AM
Turney
 
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Default fur prices

So I guess you made out better than you would of sold it to a private buyer. It sounds like the prices might get even better next sale, I sure hope so.
I have 23 coyotes, 10 lynx's, and 5 otters on the next sale.
Congrats sheepless on your good prices its nice to see the prices finally come up.
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2003, 01:31 AM
Prices!
 
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Default Prices!

I have to agree with the pro-auction house sellers. How can a fur buyer ever pay you more than the auction house's that bring the market to Canada. Most, if not all fur buyers, put their furs in the self-same auction houses that we have been down playing. We have used and will continue to use NAFA, the service is great, the prices are good (comparatively), and the home page is outstanding...our average for the last 15 was $72.00 with the top being $105.00 and the bottom being, well we'll leave that for another day, it dragger the average down... as it was pretty damaged... a couple of friends wanted to try coyote calling, I did the calling! $0.10 per stitch would be a good estimate!

Anyway, if it's best dollar your after: auction house. Quickest dollar your after: fur buyer. Easiest: fur buyer who can skin a dog....most fun....shooting, calling and trapping...take care!
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2003, 01:46 AM
I agree
 
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Default I agree

I agree with Coyote!
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2003, 03:22 PM
coyote prices
 
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Default coyote prices

i was just wondering if their is a better place for selling coyotes to kim kimball
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2003, 04:57 PM
Coyotes
 
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Default Coyotes

****ker Fur is the place to sell coyotes. I got as high as $40.00 for whole coyotes this past winter. I heard they paid as high as $100.00 but you know how stories go I think that sounds high.

Big Shooter
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2003, 02:35 AM
nafa
 
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Default nafa

I would like to see your fur check from the may sale this year. In case you didnt know they are not having a may sale hope you get your money by the time the snow flys next season.
Ha Ha Ha
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2003, 10:10 AM
sheepless
 
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Default Nafa Sale

Big timber, where did you get this info from?
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2003, 01:54 PM
nafa
 
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Default nafa

Check the website. So far they say that they will have it in June but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2003, 07:10 PM
Auction
 
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Default Auction

I wonder why anyone would question the same palce that ****ker Furs likely sends their furs. NAFA

NAFA POSTPONES MAY 2003 AUCTION
After extensive consultation with the fur trade worldwide, as well as with representatives of NAFA's supporting producer associations, our auction originally scheduled for May 12 - 15 in Toronto will be postponed until mid June. Although the SARS situation in Toronto has improved, the situation in China continues to be problematic. With the safety of our customers and staff and the integrity of the auction our most important considerations, our management and Board agreed unanimously that postponing the auction was in the best interests of all parties.

In response to the problems we faced here in Toronto and in support of the international fur trade, we would like to thank both Finnish Fur Sales and Copenhagen Fur Centre for stepping forward and extending invitations for us to hold our sale in their premises during their June auctions. After careful consideration of all factors, most importantly the time requirements, the Boards of our producer associations unanimously agreed to accept the invitation of CFC to hold our auction in Copenhagen in conjunction with their June 12 - 16 sale.
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2003, 09:11 AM
may sale.......or not
 
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Default may sale.......or not

Open your eyes Pred and Prey. It would not be in the best interest of a major fur buyer such as ****ker Fur to throw their fur on the auction. That's alot of money tied up on a hunch. Just look at the problem that has been created because of SARS. That is quite a few major buyers out of the loop because they are from China. THINK buddy..........THINK>:
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2003, 10:41 AM
Sorry about that!
 
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Default Sorry about that!

Didn't mean to get you all worked up BigTimber. And I have to admit I don't follow how a major fur buyer like ****ker furs deals with the fur market...and I'd like to hear how they do it. All I know is I averaged $72.00 on my last 15 at NAFA and am waiting on the next auction. My referral to the auction happening was in responce to your comment about "Don't hold your breath". I guess I will as my last lot is at the auction and I am waiting. I also know the largest Southern Alberta trapper with furs in excess of 700 deals with NAFA and unless ****ker's has the foreign market knocking on their door they have to sell them furs somewhere and it ain't to the local market. So, and I don't drink, tell me how ****ker furs does their furs and I might buy into your rambling!

Lastly, your other comment was "why wast your money driving to %$(&%%(^%, take your furs to ****ker's in Edmonton. Well son, that's more than 6 hours from here, waste your money, not mine. $40.00 a dog is a sin!:

rollin, roll over and smell the coffee! And I appologize ahead of time, you just sort of got to me!
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2003, 11:31 AM
Auction vs. Slutkers
 
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Default Auction vs. ****kers

Mr. P and P,
First of all $72.00 avg gross(on paper)? Or net(after commisions, tumbling chgs, cost to mail, time waiting for your money etc...)? Let me know.
Second, The largest southern Alberta trapper deals with NAFA because he is a NAFA depot. That is how he makes his living, off of a percentage he obtains depending on how much fur goes through his depot. HE GETS PAID WHEN HE PROMOTES!!!!!
Lastly ****kers travels all over Alberta and PICKS UP fur so you don't have to bring it to them......BURN. I wouldn't drive 6 hours for $40.00 a coyote either.............unless they were $40.00 whole, frozen.........BURN #2...... which by the way is what they were paying. ****kers was paying between $60.00 and $75.00 average throughout most of the season. So moral of the continuing saga is GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT and go where the money is.......pops.
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2003, 11:07 PM
NAFA
 
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Default NAFA

When I was a kid, there was maybe a dozen travelling buyers. No NAFA. Coudn't begin to count the times I got screwed by the travellers, even worse when I took them right into their stores. Why? Because they COULD! What does a 15-year old kid with a couple coyotes know about the fur markets? They told us sob stories, too bad we can't pay more, but thats how it is blah blah blah........

Now that I have a choice, I drive right by ****kers on the way to the depot. Just smile and wave........

I'll get exactly what my fur is worth on the world market when it sells, and I don't really care when that is. Trapping is only part of my life, I can wait for the fair price.
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2003, 05:13 PM
crooked fur buyers
 
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Default crooked fur buyers

Cable Guy,
This isn't the 1940's or whenever you were a kid. Grow up...........fur buyers aren't involved in some big conspiracy to STEAL your hard earned CASH. Some people know fur well enough to take it to the fur buyer and talk about price.....others send it away so they don't have to bother.........oh well it must have been only worth that much. The auction is God...yada yada yada.
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2003, 12:30 AM
Big Timber
 
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Default Big Timber

I didn't think my post required an answer, but since you want to fight;
Any company whose business it is to buy and sell commodities has to buy that commodity at a price lower than what they sell it for.This is called "margin", "gross profit", "profit margin", etc. etc. Out of this margin, the company has to pay all of its' costs, both fixed and variable. Margin needn't be large if the company is handling huge volumes - many are the mansions built on Portage Avenue with 1/2c per bushel margins on wheat, for instance. Conversely, if volumes are low, the company will need a larger margin to meet its' costs. Fixed costs are not affected by the volume, variable costs are. That means that things like rent, heat, property taxes ( all fixed costs ) remain the same whether the company does X amount of business or 5X. Variable costs rise and fall based on the amount of business. A good example of variable costs are mileage, depreciation and so forth which are incurred while driving all over the province to pick up fur. Another example is bank interest. If the company doesn't make enough margin, they starve. Simple.

Why all this talk of margins? Because it is germane to the argument, and here's why. NAFA is a middle-man, same as any private buyer. They both need margin to cover their costs and make a profit. The difference is that NAFA's margin is guaranteed not to exceed a certain percentage. It is in their best interests to get the best price for my fur, because they are thereby guaranteed a higher margin. Takes some of the uncertainty out of their future. Basically a fee-for-service transaction.Gives me peace of mind, too. Why?Because I don't have to worry about getting beat. Auctions are THE BEST methods of price discovery. Instead of one bid or two on my fur, I have forty, a hundred, maybe two hundred interested people looking at my collection.
The private buyer, on the other hand, can only make what he can skin off the trapper. This is where volumes in relation to the margin become important. The private buyer is going to need more margin because he is not handling anything like the volumes of a major auction house. To make matters worse, he has a lot of uncertainty in his future in regards to eventual price discovery, and will need a bigger margin to cover any potential dips in whatever market he is selling into. Sounds like it would be near impossible to make a nickle at this business, doesn't it? But wait. If the travellers are shrewd, lucky, ruthless, or a combination of all three, they can make a fortune. All at the expense of the producer. It is in the travellers' best interest to pay as little as possible for my furs, at all times. That is their ONLY means of generating "margin". Simple. Never said they were "stealing" it. Don't put words in my mouth.

OK, now to summarize.Both the auction houses and private buyers take profit from my furs. Auction houses will only ever take a set percentage, private buyers will take whatever they can. Case in point: In an earlier post, you said that ****kers had paid as high as $100 for a coyote pelt. It's a matter of public record that NAFA sold the top lot of eight coyotes at the January sale for $208 each. I know a fella who had 2 skins in that top lot, and the money was true. If ****kers paid $100 for a couple of top-end coyotes, and put them on the sale for $208, how much margin is that? More than 11%? The trapper COULD have had this windfall. Maybe they will phone him up and offer to split the difference? In your own words, Timber, don't hold your breath.

Although I have looked at thousands of pelts over the years ( not all mine lol ), I am not arrogant enough to think that I can "talk price" with a pro. With the auction as an option, why would I even bother to try? Take my furs to a single buyer, and I know he's going to offer me the lowest price he thinks I will take. This concept has not changed since the Forties, or Fifties, or Sixties of any century. No "conspiracy", just shrewd business. When I take them to NAFA, I'll get what they are worth. Period.

Is there a place for private buyers? Not for me, frankly, but then I put up all my fur. That gives me the choice of marketing to any auction house. Private buyers might be happy to buy fur in the round, because that gives them another bargaining opportunity. Chance for a greater margin. Those of us who can and do put up fur correctly realize the best price at auction.

Does that mean the auction is God? Well, no, not really. Just the best selling option there is so far.
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