6.5 Shootout Comparison, How would you score it?

[260 Rem]

Well, the powder column is relatively short which may facilitate optimum ignition, but there are many other cartridges with similar characteristics.
Interestingly, that same 6 BR case can be necked up to 30 cal to become a 30 BR which is also noted for it’s consistency...being dominant in the 300 yd score game. I think the 30 BR is pretty much the equivalent of what was once called an 1 1/2” 308?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is exactly what I like about the Creedmoor. Just like x47 with more brass options! Not that that is the be all end all either.

No kidding. I'd like to try this alpha brass but Lapua is hard to improve upon.

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Love the data on the 6.5x47 too. Where can i pick up some factory ammo for that?

Kidding but, If someone had gotten behind the 6.5x47 with some of those more mainstream ideas it would have taken off....or did someone? What's his nutz Dennis DeMille and what's his ballz Dave Emary, basically did exactly that in a different way. Pretty neat story, check it out.

http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=5826.0

On a marketing standpoint i think giving it a name, strong but not just a word...a name, was a smart move too. 6.5x47 vs 6.5 Creedmoor....hmmm, in discussion alone one rolls off the tongue a little easier, not that it matters what it's called performance wise but sure helps set it apart for the human factor, we like names more than we like numbers

just on the birth story of the creedmoor alone it's pretty incredible, some amazing minds behind it and a company that took the chance to back them

Who shoots factory ammo? I don't even know what that looks like......

[Stinky Coyote]

Lol

[Digger1]

I love the Creed! I don’t have one, but when I slow my M98 Swede down to Creed speeds, it is incredibly accurate. So I can shut my eyes and lay back in the shade, and pretend I’m 20 years younger, with hair like Justin, and a really sexy Creedmoor in my hands. The ol’ Swede still does .5 MOA up over 2900 too. BTW Nosler Trophy factory ammo is loaded to the same speed for both.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Digger1

I love the Creed! I don’t have one, but when I slow my M98 Swede down to Creed speeds, it is incredibly accurate. So I can shut my eyes and lay back in the shade, and pretend I’m 20 years younger, with hair like Justin, and a really sexy Creedmoor in my hands. The ol’ Swede still does .5 MOA up over 2900 too. BTW Nosler Trophy factory ammo is loaded to the same speed for both.

Wow! 2900fps!!!! That's like really fast hey? What a machine, it must kill so good. I wouldn't even bother with a creed, at 2800fps it wouldn't even compare.

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Wow! 2900fps!!!! That's like really fast hey? What a machine, it must kill so good. I wouldn't even bother with a creed, at 2800fps it wouldn't even compare.

Yeah! But I still want one! 2900 is too hard on barrels. Lol

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Digger1

Yeah! But I still want one! 2900 is too hard on barrels. Lol

Come to think about it, it must be a killer on the shoulder too.

[Digger1]

This thread is hilarious! G’nite

[Beeman3]

Originally Posted by chuck

After shooting the Creedmoor, I’m not sure how you guys run these speeds in the 6.5x47.

I am no expert, but neither of these 6.5X47's show any pressure signs with the loads I am using. The RBROS is a full custom with a 26" barrel. RBROS developed this load for me and assured me it was not max in this rifle. I think I could get 3000 fps plus, but it shoots so good I am not changing anything. The light weight X47 has a 25" #3 contour Benchmark. I was happy at 2900 fps give or take with the Accubond which has more bearing surface than the 130 Berger. Nothing wrong with the Creed and they have done an amazing job marketing it. But I am sticking with my X47's.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

I am no expert, but neither of these 6.5X47's show any pressure signs with the loads I am using. The RBROS is a full custom with a 26" barrel. RBROS developed this load for me and assured me it was not max in this rifle. I think I could get 3000 fps plus, but it shoots so good I am not changing anything. The light weight X47 has a 25" #3 contour Benchmark. I was happy at 2900 fps give or take with the Accubond which has more bearing surface than the 130 Berger. Nothing wrong with the Creed and they have done an amazing job marketing it. But I am sticking with my X47's.

Lapua did a great job on the design of the 6.5x47 but I believe they aimed it at the Competition shooters by optimizing it to the 123 Scenar. I took a hard look at it as a hunting round and found that it would have fared better with hunting bullets and the 129/130 grains bullets if it had been throated longer.
This is how I determined the 120 BT and 125 Partitions would set up and thought they would work well with 0.090 -0.100" more Freebore and still fit in a 2.8" Magazine.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Does your rifle have the original FB/throat or has it been done with a custom reamer? I would like to know the COAL to the lands with the 130 Berger to see how it corresponds to the drawing I did a few years back.
[IMG][/IMG]

The 6.5x47 is not nearly as suited for the 140/143 bullets as the 6.5 CM especially if it is set up with the new Intermediate length actions that allow 2.9"+ OAL as it was optimized for. If the 6.5 x55 reaches the lands with the 140/143 bullets, as drawn, it should work great as well.
[IMG][/IMG]

[260 Rem]

My ‘47 reamer print (note .180FB).
Below is a visual of 130 Ber VLD(H) seated .010 off the lands. Note: Position of boat tail taper colored red.
I have at least a half dozen barrels chambered with this reamer, been shooting it since 2010.
The CM could have been named a 6.5 X 48.8 . The big brother is the 6.5 X 51 AKA 260 Rem.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

My ‘47 reamer print (note .180FB).
Below is a visual of 130 Ber VLD(H) seated .010 off the lands. Note: Position of boat tail taper colored red.
I have at least a half dozen barrels chambered with this reamer, been shooting it since 2010.
The CM could have been named a 6.5 X 48.8 . The big brother is the 6.5 X 51 AKA 260 Rem.

That is pretty much what I suspected when I was looking into the 6.5 x 47. It looks like I was just about 0.007" short when I predicted that it would be better to have the Free Bore lengthened by about 0.100". You really don't have a 6.5x47 as per the original Lapua specs so performance can be quite different especially in a fire formed case. You actually have a custom reamer, with 0.180" freebore and my drawing of a Lapua case with the 130 VLD seated out to where I would have wanted it is only 0.002" longer than your actual round. Do you have the actual H20 capacity and the capacity full with the powder you are using?
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[Don_Parsons]

Dam, this thread needs the "Like Button" option.

Had I known what I've learned on this thread, I would of most likely not gone with the 30/06,,, but less that.

I think all cartrages can can do a bit of everything.

Yes,,, better at this, or better at that in thier on makings.

[260 Rem]

I had PTG make the reamer to cut the chamber I wanted which was to provide more boiler room for long bullets, and to fit a tight neck. No idea of fill volumes. The 130 BER VLD(H) pushed by 41 grs of H4350 lit by a CCI BR-4 primer leave the muzzle at about 2850 FPS which is in a sweet node. I have loaded to 42 gr / H4350 with no pressure signs but did not chrony as group sizes were growing. I would guess MV would have been sneaking up on 2900 FPS.
EDIT: If I were having another reamer made, I would go with .160 freebore as I doubt I would ever shoot the longer 140 gr Berger VLDs. The .180 is probably about right for the 140’s. My friend designed his reamer with .250 FB for the long bullets. It put the base of the 140 VLDs at the NK/shoulder junction which has the boiler room at max volume.

[Beeman3]

I do all my reloading at a friends place so I don’t have any measurements. But I do believe my reamer from Manson has 160 freebore. My RBROS rifle I don’t know as they will not release their reamer specs. 42.2 gr of H4350 is my 130 Berger load. Barrel is a 26” Broughton. Drops confirmed out to 910 yds. Far as my property allows me to shoot. First season with my hunting x47 so it’s only been shot out to 500 yds. These little guns were very impressive in Texas this past winter. Took 10 whitetail and one hog. Both the Berger and accubond performed awesome.

[Stinky Coyote]

Things getting pretty technical here. Definitely not for the masses.

And that's where the CM shines, they simplified this part of it too, made consistent high level performances like this available off the shelf. This is a good thing and hopefully it's a formula used by more manufacturers in the firearms world going forward. Get it all right from the start and even though the reloaders can still tweak and fine tune a bit it will be less work to get peak but the masses can get so much more now for the bang than ever before.

There are three 6.5 cartridges following these formulas, the Grendel, Creedmoor, and PRC.

In terms of range potential using min. fps impact rules(whether known or generally known for class types of bullets in regards to big game) and s.d. to compare factory numbers just to gauge their performance potential against one another. The Grendel can go to distance X based on whatever your standards are, using the same standards the Creedmoor goes another 250 yards with a little more b.c./s.d., and the Prc does another 250 yards beyond that.(with same b.c./s.d. as CM)

The Creedmoor easily being the most versatile. The PRC the most potent.

The Grendel still showing adequate numbers for traditional hunting ranges we kill 95% of our stuff within anyway, basically mirroring .243 win in terms of distances, with a higher s.d., burning less powder, and in a one size smaller action size to boot.

Pretty impressive data and nothing is doing more for the powder burned than the these three choices on the total amount of choices one could have in list for cartridge selections. Even if your list only has a few criteria then a zillion choices work. But chances are these three will have those choices easily covered and fit more lists than any of the rest of the choices they compare against.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I had PTG make the reamer to cut the chamber I wanted which was to provide more boiler room for long bullets, and to fit a tight neck. No idea of fill volumes. The 130 BER VLD(H) pushed by 41 grs of H4350 lit by a CCI BR-4 primer leave the muzzle at about 2850 FPS which is in a sweet node. I have loaded to 42 gr / H4350 with no pressure signs but did not chrony as group sizes were growing. I would guess MV would have been sneaking up on 2900 FPS.
EDIT: If I were having another reamer made, I would go with .160 freebore as I doubt I would ever shoot the longer 140 gr Berger VLDs. The .180 is probably about right for the 140’s. My friend designed his reamer with .250 FB for the long bullets. It put the base of the 140 VLDs at the NK/shoulder junction which has the boiler room at max volume.

I guess the point I was making was that we are not talking 6.5X47 Lapua as it was originally specked. I just wanted to clear that up for the fellows looking at going with a 6.5x47 and expecting to get the velocities claimed, especially when loading new brass.

Actually the 140 Berger VLD(H) is only 0.021" longer than the 130VLD(H) so would fit with the bearing surface ahead of the Neck/Shoulder junction in your chamber with the 0.180 FB. In fact it would still work in a chamber with 160 FB. For target shooting and running max velocity the 140 LRBT HP and 140 Hybrid both have a shorter bearing surface than the 130 VLD or 140 VLD. Not sure how they would set up but likely great.

Your friend actually would have been better off going with a 6.5 CM as it already is throated for the 140 VLD to seat at 2.865" when 0.015" off lands. Actually your 0.180 FB chamber is optimal for both the 130 &140 VLD's to seat properly in the neck and fit in a 2.8" Magazine.
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[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by SakoShooter

6.5 creedmoor is one of the best out there for a new shooter, mild recoil and effective on game to reasonable ranges, ammo likely to be available everywhere for the foreseeable future.

In my opinion, the 6.5 creed has supplanted the 7mm-08 as the ultimate begginners hunting rifle.

I don't personally like the .243 for beginners as I think it's effectiveness on game is a step below the 6.5 and 7mm-08

Great comments and observations. I'll argue that creedmoor is one of the best choices out there period, not just for new shooters.

I see what you're saying about the .243. You may be indirectly talking about s.d.???

Keeping in mind that for 3rd class game(elk etc.) rules of thumb out there seem to recommend .250 and higher.

The light weight choices for .243 in 80 grain have s.d. around .200 and the heavy weight choices like the 100 gr nosler partition has .242. So you don't really get into 3rd class game territory with a .243 until over 100 gr bullets.

I suppose there's some 120 gr choices in 7mm-08 but the 140 gr seems to be a popular weight for that cartridge and it's s.d. is .248, the 150 gr gets you above the .250...

Your observations of .243 being a step below would mirror what you said in s.d. figures alone. And this is where the 6.5 really shines. Even the 123 grain is .252....it just goes up from there.

Food for thought.

[rem338win]

The 120gr Ballistic Tip and Barnes are terrific bullets and great killers. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on up to sheep sized game out to 400yds.

That said the 120gr Ballistic Tip in the 6.5x47L had been a great killer to, and bucks wind better.