Thoughts on a mule deer outfitter?

[runnin'wild]

Hi everyone, I generally am busy guiding during the fall in Northern MB or Nunavut but with the border closure it looks as though I will have time on my hands to possibly do some of my own hunting.

I'm looking into some possible cancelation hunts for mule deer in Alberta.

4 outfitters I have been looking into are as follows.
Mackin Outfitting, Mike's Outfitting, Great White Holdings and Willow Creek Outfitters.

Does anyone know any of these Outfitters? Good experience bad experiences? Info, contacts etc. Does anyone know if one area is better than others?

I've seen years ago that Great White Holdings has had some F&W issues, have they cleaned their act up and on straight and narrow? Any other info would be appreciated for all or any Outfitters.

Not looking to bash anyone publicly, just looking for some info on hunts, area and Outfitters.

Feel free to let me know your thoughts or suggestions for reputable Outfitters, Thanks.

[slough shark]

Dealing with Lloyd McMahon at great white holdings would be akin to playing with fire, I wouldn’t go near there with a ten foot pole.

[elkhunter11]

There is no way that I would every trust the most convicted outfitter in Alberta. Not only has he been convicted, but his actions have resulted in some of his clients being convicted. And there were criminal convictions as well as convictions under the wildlife act.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

There is no way that I would every trust the most convicted outfitter in Alberta. Not only has he been convicted, but his actions have resulted in some of his clients being convicted. And there were criminal convictions as well as convictions under the wildlife act.

These are some of my concerns. I'm a government worker and I guide every fall. I'm not about to put myself into a situation where it would negative. I wasn't sure if his son was running it or what the situation is. A good buddy of mine hunted with Jon last year somewhere else and said he was alright and that they kill huge deer. I'm not willing to do something illegal or unethical just to get a larger animal, I passed on a 180 last fall on the last day due to it would've been illegal.

I'm looking for a true hunt that's challenging and exciting as this will likely be the only chance for me to go anytime in the near future.

Anyone else know any info for the other outfitters posted?

Thanks

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by runnin'wild

These are some of my concerns. I'm a government worker and I guide every fall. I'm not about to put myself into a situation where it would negative. I wasn't sure if his son was running it or what the situation is. A good buddy of mine hunted with Jon last year somewhere else and said he was alright and that they kill huge deer. I'm not willing to do something illegal or unethical just to get a larger animal, I passed on a 180 last fall on the last day due to it would've been illegal.

I'm looking for a true hunt that's challenging and exciting as this will likely be the only chance for me to go anytime in the near future.

Anyone else know any info for the other outfitters posted?

Thanks

Some of the rules they have broken in the past clients may not know they’re breaking the rules. Spotting from planes and calling down, trespassing, duplicating tags, I could go on but you get the point. It would be an awful big risk to take on hunting with someone who has proven himself over and over to not have a regard for the law. I’d perhaps go as far as question your buddy what made him arrive the conclusion that hunting with him was a risk worth taking.

[35 whelen]

There's also lots of good Outfitters that do mule deer hunts in Alberta just can't remember the rules regarding Manitoba residents if they have to put in for the draw or if they can use the Outfitters allocations

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[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by slough shark

Some of the rules they have broken in the past clients may not know they’re breaking the rules. Spotting from planes and calling down, trespassing, duplicating tags, I could go on but you get the point. It would be an awful big risk to take on hunting with someone who has proven himself over and over to not have a regard for the law. I’d perhaps go as far as question your buddy what made him arrive the conclusion that hunting with him was a risk worth taking.

My buddy is a smart guy who outfits in MB as well as previously in Alberta, he does his homework and would ensure that he was in the proper wmu. Issues arise when you aren't aware of permission etc.

I personally don't feel the risk is worth the reward. I'm heavily leaning towards other outfitters.

[Rackmastr]

Willow Creek or Mike's are good outfits from all Ive seen and worth exploring with current Cdn offers from both of them.

[South west trappin RG]

Both are very upstanding guys that have good areas ones in the north - mikes an Aundre in the south with willow creek. Both great outfitters an really nice guys.

[TBark]

Sorry to derail somewhat,
Anyone know what % of the cost of a hunt is the tag and the balance? Is it aprx 50/50.
Just asking because of what may be the situation with Outfitters and clients not being able to arrive Int’l.
So if an AB res were to have, say a P10 Muliey tag of their own, what would this hunt cost with a knowledgeable Outfitters?
Just using a P10 example as if in a fairly high priority zone.

TBark

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Mike runs a good outfit. Call Billy at silver sage and brigden outfitters.

[Hooter]

I watch a lot of Willow Creek’s YouTube videos. Seems like a good outfit and they seem to provide the type of hunt I like (spot and stalk), but I can’t speak on their outfit from any personal experience.

[SHEDHEAD]

The cost of Licensing and the tag will run a non resident hunter about $300. Some outfitters include this cost in the price of their hunt and others have it as an additional cost.

As an Alberta resident I doubt you will save much money by drawing a resident tag and hiring a reputable outfitter in that WMU.

Originally Posted by TBark

Sorry to derail somewhat,
Anyone know what % of the cost of a hunt is the tag and the balance? Is it aprx 50/50.
Just asking because of what may be the situation with Outfitters and clients not being able to arrive Int’l.
So if an AB res were to have, say a P10 Muliey tag of their own, what would this hunt cost with a knowledgeable Outfitters?
Just using a P10 example as if in a fairly high priority zone.

TBark

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

There is no way that I would every trust the most convicted outfitter in Alberta. Not only has he been convicted, but his actions have resulted in some of his clients being convicted. And there were criminal convictions as well as convictions under the wildlife act.

didn't you hunt sheep with a convicted outfitter here in AB?

[bonedogg]

doesn't a Canadian resident still need to draw a tag first. I do not believe a guy can purchase outfitted hunts and go?

[SHEDHEAD]

No, a non resident Canadian is able to purchase outfitted hunts through outfitters using their Allocations.

Alberta residents are not permitted to do this.

Originally Posted by bonedogg

doesn't a Canadian resident still need to draw a tag first. I do not believe a guy can purchase outfitted hunts and go?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

didn't you hunt sheep with a convicted outfitter here in AB?

No I did not hunt witha convicted outfitter. I hunted with an outfitter that was convicted of hunting in another outfitters area, years after I hunted with him. He wasn't a convicted poacher when I hunted with him, or I would have never hunted with him.

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by SHEDHEAD

No, a non resident Canadian is able to purchase outfitted hunts through outfitters using their Allocations.



Alberta residents are not permitted to do this.

Heard through the grapevine that there's changes in the works for Alberta residents to use allocations don't know when it'll come into effect though

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[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Heard through the grapevine that there's changes in the works for Alberta residents to use allocations don't know when it'll come into effect though

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Hopefully just a rumor...

There has been absolutely no public consultation on this.

There is a solid reason why outfitter allocations can't be used by residents, and we need to stick to it.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hopefully just a rumor...

There has been absolutely no public consultation on this.

There is a solid reason why outfitter allocations can't be used by residents, and we need to stick to it.

It’s also part of legislation and the wildlife act... so that doesn’t change over night.

LC

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hopefully just a rumor...

There has been absolutely no public consultation on this.

There is a solid reason why outfitter allocations can't be used by residents, and we need to stick to it.

What would that solid reason be?

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hopefully just a rumor...



There has been absolutely no public consultation on this.



There is a solid reason why outfitter allocations can't be used by residents, and we need to stick to it.

I'd like to know also what a solid reason would be, if an outfitter wants to bring a resident in and chance of that Resident coming back to hunt there that should be his choice, we should have just as much rights as someone from Saskatchewan to hunt our animals.

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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

I'd like to know also what a solid reason would be, if an outfitter wants to bring a resident in and chance of that Resident coming back to hunt there that should be his choice, we should have just as much rights as someone from Saskatchewan to hunt our animals.

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A wealthy resident could purchase hunting property, and allocations, and use those allocations for their own personal use, with no interest in outfitting. This would be a huge step toward making hunting a sport for the rich in Alberta. This would also take away guiding jobs, and eliminate the money that non resident hunters bring into the province.

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A wealthy resident could purchase hunting property, and allocations, and use those allocations for their own personal use, with no interest in outfitting. This would be a huge step toward making hunting a sport for the rich in Alberta. This would also take away guiding jobs, and eliminate the money that non resident hunters bring into the province.

You cannot purchase allocations unless you are a licensed Outfitter to outfit and have insurance and bonding ,they could set a limit of how many Alberta residency a year could be taken ,it still doesn't make sense that someone from Manitoba can come and hunt Antelope every year if they wanted to and we have to wait 12 years I don't care how you wrap your head around it it's not right.

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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

You cannot purchase allocations unless you are a licensed Outfitter to outfit and have insurance and bonding ,they could set a limit of how many Alberta residency a year could be taken ,it still doesn't make sense that someone from Manitoba can come and hunt Antelope every year if they wanted to and we have to wait 12 years I don't care how you wrap your head around it it's not right.

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Anyone that can afford the allocations can become an outfitter and purchase insurance. And you are right, it's not right that someone can hunt every year while residents wait to draw, but allowing residents to use allocations may just make things worse. The only real answer, is to eliminate allocations where residents wait years to draw a tag.

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Anyone that can afford the allocations can become an outfitter and purchase insurance. And you are right, it's not right that someone can hunt every year while residents wait to draw, but allowing residents to use allocations may just make things worse. The only real answer, is to eliminate allocations where residents wait years to draw a tag.

Agreed, I was a guide for a lot of years now I'm a resident and it's a shame that I'm still priority 13 and can't get an antelope ,when anyone else other than an Alberton can come every year .I'm afraid the changes will be too late for me though has my hunting career is winding down, least I got to hunt twice for Antelope in Alberta my son not so much.

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[sns2]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Agreed, I was a guide for a lot of years now I'm a resident and it's a shame that I'm still priority 13 and can't get an antelope ,when anyone else other than an Alberton can come every year .I'm afraid the changes will be too late for me though has my hunting career is winding down, least I got to hunt twice for Antelope in Alberta my son not so much.

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And that right there is exactly why some perceive me as anti-outfitter. I am opposed to anyone from another country, or even another province, being able to pull a tag ahead of an Albertan just because they can afford to. Albertans collectively own those animals (a natural resource). I am 100% supportive of people who love the outdoors earning a living from it as an outfitter, as long as they play fair by the rules, and are respectful of resident hunters. As it is now, if I wanted to go antelope hunting with my son, it's easier to hop in the truck and drive to Wyoming. Something is fundamentally wrong with that picture.

[Justfishin73]

Originally Posted by sns2

And that right there is exactly why some perceive me as anti-outfitter. I am opposed to anyone from another country, or even another province, able to pull a tag ahead of an Albertan just because they can afford to. Albertans collectively own those animals (a natural resource). I am 100% supportive of people who love the outdoors earning a living from it as an outfitter, as long as they play fair by the rules, and are respectful of resident hunters. As it is now, if I wanted to go antelope hunting with my son, it's easier to hop in the truck and drive to Wyoming. Something is fundamentally wrong with that picture.

Post of the month --this sticks in my craw bigtime

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

And that right there is exactly why some perceive me as anti-outfitter. I am opposed to anyone from another country, or even another province, being able to pull a tag ahead of an Albertan just because they can afford to. Albertans collectively own those animals (a natural resource). I am 100% supportive of people who love the outdoors earning a living from it as an outfitter, as long as they play fair by the rules, and are respectful of resident hunters. As it is now, if I wanted to go antelope hunting with my son, it's easier to hop in the truck and drive to Wyoming. Something is fundamentally wrong with that picture.

Agree.... some things should be a “resident” only opportunity, Saskatchewan has it right.

LC

[W921]

Originally Posted by sns2

And that right there is exactly why some perceive me as anti-outfitter. I am opposed to anyone from another country, or even another province, being able to pull a tag ahead of an Albertan just because they can afford to. Albertans collectively own those animals (a natural resource). I am 100% supportive of people who love the outdoors earning a living from it as an outfitter, as long as they play fair by the rules, and are respectful of resident hunters. As it is now, if I wanted to go antelope hunting with my son, it's easier to hop in the truck and drive to Wyoming. Something is fundamentally wrong with that picture.

I totally agree with you. Years ago I worked as a guide.
Paid access is going on.
Look at some zones that you used to be able to just buy a general tag in. At first I thought putting it on a draw would make it an improvement. I used to be able to shoot a buck every year now since its been a draw its once every ten years but there are more landowner tags and guided hunts going on steady. Less deer there now than 20 years ago. More wolves,cougars ,etc. Something is friggen happening to all the game and its not regular liceanced Albertans taking therm.
I wish hunting was more about a rural life style and tradition than a sport. When you make it a sport it becomes a money sport and competition. When its as competition people compete instead of help each other out.