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  #1  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:56 PM
LacLaBicheNS LacLaBicheNS is offline
 
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Default educate me on "fish finders"

looking at picking up a new fish finder this spring. I have only every bought the 100-200$ basic models. Looking at spending under 800$ this go around.

Whats the difference between GPS and Sonar?

I fish 90% of my time for big pike. So I like the idea of being able to tell the where in the water column the warm water meets cold water. It looks like this is only available in GPS units.

I have never used side scanning units before. Would this be helpful when casting for pike on drop offs, weed lines etc?

Ideally I would like a through the hull mount. Does this change whats available to me?

What else do I need to know?

Whats the difference between a 400$ unit and a 800$ unit?
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LacLaBicheNS View Post
Whats the difference between a 400$ unit and a 800$ unit?
Well I'm going to get in on this before some other smart guy does.

Answer is about $400
That is all, carry on.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:58 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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HDS 5 is in your price range.
Sonar is the "fish finder" which allows you to see your depth and fish
GPS is Global Positioning that allows you to see where you are. Much like whats in one for a car.

Most units will help you identify the thermocline but will not tell you the temperature other than at the surface through the transducer.

The HDS 5 is side scan capable with the addition of LSS2 for about 6
$600.00 - $700.00. You can add that when budget allows.

Side scan would be better with transom mount
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2013, 02:00 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Also if you do a search there are lots of threads with alot of info.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:44 AM
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Humminbird 597di
Around $600 at Bass Pro
I've been looking for a bit too and it's my 1st choice.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2013, 05:55 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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For another 100-150 you could get the HDS-5 and down the road add side scan as well. As well as be able to network another HDS if you choose.

And if you get the HDS5 plus an LSS-2(side scan) soon(purchase between 2/14/13-4/7/13)both have to be purchased in that time frame. You can get a $300.00 rebate which should bring price for both to $1000.00 - $1100.00 or so.

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 02-25-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:43 AM
Mikezilk Mikezilk is offline
 
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I just purchased the Lowrance Elite 5 DSI GPS Gold combo unit from West Marine for $469.99. It comes with the Navionics Gold Charts. Mostly coastal water but includes over 100 major canadian lakes. I got mine on sale a few weeks ago. Was $569.99 originally and shipping is free.

Check em out online if you think you would like the Elite 5
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:54 AM
bardfromedson bardfromedson is offline
 
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I have owned lots of Lowrance sonar/GPS. Used my dads humminbird last year for 1 day and like it lots more. 800 will get u a nice unit. Spend much less gets u a depth sounder. I highly recommend you do some research on how to tune your unit when you get it. You will get 100 x better performance compared to the auto settings and fish id all turned on. If your mostly fishing less than 30 ft the side scan would be a nice touch. Also get the wide angle transducer. Deep water (50+) narrow or dual angle transducer and down scan are the way to go.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:52 PM
LacLaBicheNS LacLaBicheNS is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bardfromedson View Post
I have owned lots of Lowrance sonar/GPS. Used my dads humminbird last year for 1 day and like it lots more. 800 will get u a nice unit. Spend much less gets u a depth sounder. I highly recommend you do some research on how to tune your unit when you get it. You will get 100 x better performance compared to the auto settings and fish id all turned on. If your mostly fishing less than 30 ft the side scan would be a nice touch. Also get the wide angle transducer. Deep water (50+) narrow or dual angle transducer and down scan are the way to go.
Thanks for the adivce. I'll look into the units recommended.


I never fish shallow. So transducer beam width shoudl be big.


Is there anything/brand I should avoid? What about warranty/good company to deal with? Any better than others?
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2013, 05:07 PM
Mutter87 Mutter87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LacLaBicheNS View Post
Thanks for the adivce. I'll look into the units recommended.


I never fish shallow. So transducer beam width shoudl be big.


Is there anything/brand I should avoid? What about warranty/good company to deal with? Any better than others?
if your going for big pike, you'll be fishing shallow.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LacLaBicheNS View Post

Whats the difference between GPS and Sonar?
I don't think anyone answered this question;

Sonar = a beam shot out of your transducer to return sonar signal which, essentially, "paints a picture" of what is below you. This is most useful to find structure, drop offs, changes in depths, weed-lines and, of course, fish.

GPS / Chart = a beam shot out of your antenna, to a satellite, that tells you, exactly where you are, within a few feet. "Marking" these spots allow you to quickly return to good drop offs, underwater structure, good fishing spots and whatever you choose to "mark" on your unit. Before GPS, I was amazed at "how far off" I was compared to "where I thought I was".

GPS will improve your catch rates.

As far as good units - Lowrance and Humminbird both make excellent products.

A Lowrance HDS 5 or a 597ci HD DI Humminbird are excellent choices.

Add a $150 bucks to the Humminbird (598ci HD SI), at $899, you get side imaging as well. I would suggest the 598 is the best value in the market right now.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:35 PM
LacLaBicheNS LacLaBicheNS is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I don't think anyone answered this question;

Sonar = a beam shot out of your transducer to return sonar signal which, essentially, "paints a picture" of what is below you. This is most useful to find structure, drop offs, changes in depths, weed-lines and, of course, fish.

GPS / Chart = a beam shot out of your antenna, to a satellite, that tells you, exactly where you are, within a few feet. "Marking" these spots allow you to quickly return to good drop offs, underwater structure, good fishing spots and whatever you choose to "mark" on your unit. Before GPS, I was amazed at "how far off" I was compared to "where I thought I was".

GPS will improve your catch rates.

As far as good units - Lowrance and Humminbird both make excellent products.

A Lowrance HDS 5 or a 597ci HD DI Humminbird are excellent choices.

Add a $150 bucks to the Humminbird (598ci HD SI), at $899, you get side imaging as well. I would suggest the 598 is the best value in the market right now.
thanks!

I know how GPS works, but I thought for some reason new technology might be using it with fish finders besides just marking spots...
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madatter View Post
Humminbird 597di
Around $600 at Bass Pro
I've been looking for a bit too and it's my 1st choice.
Second that
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:07 AM
Walleyedude Walleyedude is offline
 
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Lowrance has some good rebates on right now, do a quick search on the net. HDS7 and StructureScan for around $1000. HDS5 and StructureScan for well under $1000.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:30 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I don't think anyone answered this question;

Sonar = a beam shot out of your transducer to return sonar signal which, essentially, "paints a picture" of what is below you. This is most useful to find structure, drop offs, changes in depths, weed-lines and, of course, fish.

GPS / Chart = a beam shot out of your antenna, to a satellite, that tells you, exactly where you are, within a few feet. "Marking" these spots allow you to quickly return to good drop offs, underwater structure, good fishing spots and whatever you choose to "mark" on your unit. Before GPS, I was amazed at "how far off" I was compared to "where I thought I was".

GPS will improve your catch rates.

As far as good units - Lowrance and Humminbird both make excellent products.

A Lowrance HDS 5 or a 597ci HD DI Humminbird are excellent choices.

Add a $150 bucks to the Humminbird (598ci HD SI), at $899, you get side imaging as well. I would suggest the 598 is the best value in the market right now.

A GPS unit is a reciever only. It does not transmit any signals. It just recieves and interprets signals transmitted from the various GPS Satellites
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:31 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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[QUOTE=EZM;1864810]I don't think anyone answered this question;

Sonar = a beam shot out of your transducer to return sonar signal which, essentially, "paints a picture" of what is below you. This is most useful to find structure, drop offs, changes in depths, weed-lines and, of course, fish.

GPS / Chart = a beam shot out of your antenna, to a satellite, that tells you, exactly where you are, within a few feet. "Marking" these spots allow you to quickly return to good drop offs, underwater structure, good fishing spots and whatever you choose to "mark" on your unit. Before GPS, I was amazed at "how far off" I was compared to "where I thought I was".


I'm certainly not an expert by any means but here is a simple explanation of basic Sonar and GPS as I understand them.

Sonar is a low frequency sound signal transmitted in Kilohertz (KHz) (Usually 50kHz or 200kHz by most portable units) , from the transducer to a target - usually the lake bottom. The sound waves returning from the lake bottom (echo) are picked up by the transducer then sent to the Sonar unit for interpretation and display.. Any signals returned by an object located above the botton are generally interpreted on the display as Fish. .. other objects such as trees, branches or whatever will be graphically displayed as well.

Signals returned from the bottom are displayed as bands on the bottom of the units display screen. Generally speaking soft bottom (mud for example) echo returns are displayed as wide bands as a soft bottoms absorbs much of the sonar signal and the returned echo signal is weaker. Hard bottom like rock or gravel returns a stronger signal and is indicated on the display as a bolder,narrower band. It does take some time and effort for a user to correctly interpret all the information that is being displayed.

GPS units operate similar to a Sonar units. However, a GPS unit is a receiver only. It does not transmit a signal. It interprets by triangulation and time the signals from the various GPS Satellites it is receiving and displays a very precise Global position, altitude above ground , and other info depending on a particular units capabilities.

Hope some of this helps.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:50 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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[QUOTE=Salavee;1865871]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I don't think anyone answered this question;

Sonar = a beam shot out of your transducer to return sonar signal which, essentially, "paints a picture" of what is below you. This is most useful to find structure, drop offs, changes in depths, weed-lines and, of course, fish.

GPS / Chart = a beam shot out of your antenna, to a satellite, that tells you, exactly where you are, within a few feet. "Marking" these spots allow you to quickly return to good drop offs, underwater structure, good fishing spots and whatever you choose to "mark" on your unit. Before GPS, I was amazed at "how far off" I was compared to "where I thought I was".


I'm certainly not an expert by any means but here is a simple explanation of basic Sonar and GPS as I understand them.

Sonar is a low frequency sound signal transmitted in Kilohertz (KHz) (Usually 50kHz or 200kHz by most portable units) , from the transducer to a target - usually the lake bottom. The sound waves returning from the lake bottom (echo) are picked up by the transducer then sent to the Sonar unit for interpretation and display.. Any signals returned by an object located above the botton are generally interpreted on the display as Fish. .. other objects such as trees, branches or whatever will be graphically displayed as well.

Signals returned from the bottom are displayed as bands on the bottom of the units display screen. Generally speaking soft bottom (mud for example) echo returns are displayed as wide bands as a soft bottoms absorbs much of the sonar signal and the returned echo signal is weaker. Hard bottom like rock or gravel returns a stronger signal and is indicated on the display as a bolder,narrower band. It does take some time and effort for a user to correctly interpret all the information that is being displayed.

GPS units operate similar to a Sonar units. However, a GPS unit is a receiver only. It does not transmit a signal. It interprets by triangulation and time the signals from the various GPS Satellites it is receiving and displays a very precise Global position, altitude above ground , and other info depending on a particular units capabilities.

Hope some of this helps.
My intent was to provide a basic explaination and difference between the two technologies answering the OP's original question.

I believe the Op's intent was to determine the best technology, and what the basic premise of the technology is, and determine his needs for his intended application or use.

Thank-you, however, for pointing out that a GPS is a reciever and does not actually transmit a signal itself. You are correct a beam does not shoot out of your GPS - It is, indeed, a reciever.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2013, 04:02 PM
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Jamie Black R/T Jamie Black R/T is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madatter View Post
Humminbird 597di
Around $600 at Bass Pro
I've been looking for a bit too and it's my 1st choice.
bought a 597ci a year ago.

used it all last summer and have it coverted to portable now and been using it as a flasher on the ice.

nice to have sonar and gps built in. return to waypoints you saved in the summer etc

awesome unit.

buy the nicest bird you can afford and dont look back!
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T View Post

buy the nicest bird you can afford and dont look back!
Agreed, you get what you pay for ...... I find myself continually getting "bigger and better" units all the time.

They have had a tremendous positive impact on my ability to put fish in the boat.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Walleyedude View Post
Lowrance has some good rebates on right now, do a quick search on the net. HDS7 and StructureScan for around $1000. HDS5 and StructureScan for well under $1000.
The cheapest I'm finding the 7 with structure scan would come in at $1270 after rebates, unless you know of somewhere cheaper?

I need some clairification for those of you who have or have used the HDS series. Is the unit itself already capable of both side and down scan, with the LSS-2 just expanding it's capabilities? Or is it just a down scan unit without the LSS-2?
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:01 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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You need the LSS-2 for side scan capability. Reg sonar without. It does have ethernet capability. You can run 2 HDS units and just one transducer. HDS gen 2 has with LSS-2 has structure map which means you can create your own underwater charts. You can check it out on Lowrance site.
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:13 PM
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$ 1000 - 798ci HD SI Humminbird
- internal GPS
- high definition sonar
- down imaging
- side imaging
- dual card slots
- ethernet capable
- quick disconnect

$800 - 598ci HD SI
- all of the above except ethernet and second card slot
- this unit is the best value for the money of any and all units out there (if you are running one unit and don`t need ethernet)

http://ca.humminbird.com/products/40...ci_HD_SI_Combo

check it out ....
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:00 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Agreed, you get what you pay for ...... I find myself continually getting "bigger and better" units all the time.
They have had a tremendous positive impact on my ability to put fish in the boat.
Exactly, many/maybe most others will do also do that, so why get units that you cant expand with?

HDS 5 comes in under his price range, has great features and if he doesnt want side scan, he can connect another HDS and just use one transducer. That elliminates interference between units with separate transducers. If he wants side scan then mapping is available as well-bonus. And if done in the time frame I mentioned he can save an additional $300.00.

Humminbird are good units too. But what I have suggested is an option and something for the OP to think about that was within his budget.

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 02-27-2013 at 06:11 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Exactly, many/maybe most others will do also do that, so why get units that you cant expand with?

HDS 5 comes in under his price range, has great features and if he doesnt want side scan, he can connect another HDS and just use one transducer. That elliminates interference between units with separate transducers. If he wants side scan then mapping is available as well-bonus. And if done in the time frame I mentioned he can save an additional $300.00.

Humminbird are good units too. But what I have suggested is an option and something for the OP to think about that was within his budget.
Yes, for sure, I agree, having an ethernet capable unit is a big advantage, which, of course, is 700 series and up on the bird stuff. With all the bells and whistles, you are over a grand no matter who's product you use.

I scrapped the idea of running 3 700 series units on my new rig, I'm going with 3 800 series units instead - more money but way more screen size.

My boat won't look like a control room in a nuclear reactor like your rig Huntsfurish, but it will be pretty full on the dash with 800's up there.

sorry to de-rail, but where did you end up mounting your puck on your set up?

The back of the lund does not have many safe areas to avoid being bumped around.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:54 AM
Walleyedude Walleyedude is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Nova View Post
The cheapest I'm finding the 7 with structure scan would come in at $1270 after rebates, unless you know of somewhere cheaper?

I need some clairification for those of you who have or have used the HDS series. Is the unit itself already capable of both side and down scan, with the LSS-2 just expanding it's capabilities? Or is it just a down scan unit without the LSS-2?
Lowrance dealers have to abide my the "minimum advertised price" rules. Contact a few of them directly and you might be surprised at the prices they'll offer.

Also, if you're not after the very latest and greatest, guys are upgrading to the Lowrance Touch units and there are some great deals out there on used units complete with DI/SI. Check out the bass fishing forums in particular.

The HDS series will not give you DI or SI without the addition of the LSS2 module. The HDS Touch series have the module built in, but still require the LSS transducer in order to give you DI or SI.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2013, 11:57 AM
ArtVandelay ArtVandelay is offline
 
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I, too, am in the market for a new fish finder with some bells and whistles. I've learned a lot reading this and the other thread from a few weeks ago. Thanks for the great discussion guys.
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:33 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Yes, for sure, I agree, having an ethernet capable unit is a big advantage, which, of course, is 700 series and up on the bird stuff. With all the bells and whistles, you are over a grand no matter who's product you use.

I scrapped the idea of running 3 700 series units on my new rig, I'm going with 3 800 series units instead - more money but way more screen size.

My boat won't look like a control room in a nuclear reactor like your rig Huntsfurish, but it will be pretty full on the dash with 800's up there.

sorry to de-rail, but where did you end up mounting your puck on your set up?

The back of the lund does not have many safe areas to avoid being bumped around.
Do you mean external GPS? or are you referring to a transducer puck? Also sorry for the derail.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Do you mean external GPS? or are you referring to a transducer puck? Also sorry for the derail.
Sorry, External GPS Puck - should have been more clear. The unit is 3.25" and about an inch or so thick (like a puck).

I want to see where guys are mounting it that have precision GPS/Sonar equipment.

Putting it at the dash causes accuracy errors equal to twice the distance from the transducer location.

I am looking for ideas on how to mount it near (or over) the rear SI transducer with some sort of hardware or clever bracket.

I'm running riggers, opening hatches, using the boarding ladder, rolling around back there, lol, etc... and just looking for clever ideas.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2013, 05:48 PM
LacLaBicheNS LacLaBicheNS is offline
 
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again thanks for the info..


Am I amble to use a through the hull transducer with these fancy units?

Do through the hull transducers affect performance?
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:25 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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If your hull is fiberglass thru hull is ok. Probably better performance with transom mount with side imaging. Aluminum best stay with transom mount.
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