First castle, now Bighorn

[slough shark]

Does anyone have a map of the proposed area? I just saw that it was going east of the trunk road and that it would be 10000-11000 km squared. Also what are the actual proposed changes? Not a big fan of huge blanket changes to our back country, I can see the push for some atv and logging bans given the proliferation of quads in the last 10 years and the rodeo that that's created and the seemingly over logging in some areas

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by slough shark

Does anyone have a map of the proposed area? I just saw that it was going east of the trunk road and that it would be 10000-11000 km squared. Also what are the actual proposed changes? Not a big fan of huge blanket changes to our back country, I can see the push for some atv and logging bans given the proliferation of quads in the last 10 years and the rodeo that that's created and the seemingly over logging in some areas

If you can see the push for atv bans, I'm sure some can see the push for huge blanket changes to the back country.

Reaping. Sowing. etc.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by rugatika

If you can see the push for atv bans, I'm sure some can see the push for huge blanket changes to the back country.

Reaping. Sowing. etc.

I can see the push for it, I don't necessarily approve it. I've seen far too many atv users breaking the law either through ignorance or knowingly doing so. It isn't a small minority like some say unfortunately. I'd much rather see enforcement of existing laws over what will likely be implemented. We will likely all pay for the ignorance or apathy of some and that is the part that sucks. It also sucks because some of the areas that I spend a lot of time will probably be overrun by all the displaced campers and atv users and they were all ready very busy, I also expect enforcement to not increase either.

[dmcbride]

Family Traditions lose out under proposed Castle Parks!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
(Edmonton February 16, 2017)…
After 16 months of so-called public consultation by the Government of Alberta with regards to the proposed Castle Parks, the process has proven the Alberta Fish and Game Association’s (AFGA) initial suspicions correct. The very first consultation meeting was more of a presentation on what the provincial government was planning for the Parks and the activities and development that were going to be allowed.
At that point AFGA was led to believe that Off Highway Vehicles (OHV) use would be a permitted activity on well designated trails throughout the proposed Castle Parks and that there would be added enforcement to ensure that use remained to those trails. This recognized the significant contributions in both time and money that OHV organizations had invested into improving the trail system and minimizing its impact on the environment.
It wasn’t until the January 20, 2017 Castle Parks announcement that AFGA learned of the elimination of all OHV use within the proposed Castle Parks. It confirmed the complete disregard for those Albertan’s who have invested significant time and money into the trail systems of this area so that they and their families can enjoy being there. For many Albertan’s whose ONLY means of getting into some of these areas to enjoy them is by means of an OHV, they are now being told they can no longer have that level of enjoyment and connection with nature that they had grown to love over theirs and their family’s entire lifetimes.
Many families in the area have had multi-generational enjoyment of the Castle area and have long standing family traditions that relate specifically to the Castle region. Furthermore, it also restricts traditional hunting and fishing opportunities for these same Albertans as it eliminates their means of getting into the backcountry to hunt and fish as well as their only means of removing their harvest.
This process has been a disgrace to the system of public consultation and an example of the decision maker’s implementation of their own ideals regardless of the public input given. It is also ironic how the “on-side” organizations were made aware of this well before the January 20th announcement in Pincher Creek. Premier Rachel Notley and associates had carefully chosen who was and who was not going to be in attendance for the announcement as they knew exactly how it would go had the opposing organizations been made aware of the announcement beforehand.
AFGA and its members call upon the Alberta Government to reverse this ban on OHV’s within the proposed Castle Parks. It is currently a draft proposal that is open for comment and this is an opportunity for the Alberta Government to show that they do in fact listen to and respect the opinions of ALL Albertans.
The Alberta Fish and Game Association is a not-for-profit volunteer organization proud to serve Albertans in the promotion of the wise use of our fish and wildlife resources and the conservation of their habitats. The AFGA has been active since 1908 in working towards these goals and has a province-wide membership of more than 25,000 individuals spread among 80+ Clubs.

[beltburner]

There is lots going on to try and stop all this garbage.
Quad Squad Rocky mountain trail blazers among other pages show how commited the riders down in the pass are. I believe there is another protest planned for tomorrow and these are not small either. 700+ people.
Sadly the government is hell bound on making this area into a Banff like park.
Anyone who thinks this ends with ohv's are blind and stupid. Like the guys who keep commenting how they'd be happy if this goes through; Hunting and Fishing is next!!!
If you agree with the actions that the goverment is trying to take the you are not an Alberta Outdoorsman!

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Taco

Prove it! Until then all you have are rumours and innuendo.



The above statement is nothing but flatout bull****

If it's a provincial park it will be a reality, part of the castle area is a provincial park. Not sure if any of the bighorn will be a provincial park. I wouldn't never say never, the government you voted for can and will do anything they want because remember they are a majority government that are green peace supporters.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Taco

Prove it! Until then all you have are rumours and innuendo.



The above statement is nothing but flatout bull****

You have a concerning amount of faith in our government. This is not about OHVS.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Taco

And once again

Bull****

I rest my case.

[NUK SOO KOW]

You have all seen the way NDP operates. NO consulatation from public except the few that actuallysupport them. They continue to railroad bills through even though albertans clearly object. Bill 6. Carbon tax. They have their own agenda. They don't give a crap about albertans.
People do need to wake up. Not fear mongering here. If you actually take the time to research what is really happening, read about and where their "science" comes from and who, what groups such as Y2Y are all about You may change your mind.
Our public lands as a whole are about to be nothing but memories soon.

Read the article at the beginning. 400 edmontonians polled. 200 from rural communities. 600 people total. Enough for them to justify Turing the Bighorn into another park. Saying this is what all the people want. Look at the population of Edmonton itself. Not to mention the supporting communities. How can that even be possible!!!!!
With castle. Completely amending the original ssrp plan on Jan 20. Behind closed doors! No public consultation. A plan that worked for all users. Only to go completely re-write the draft. With NO public consultation!
They are full of lies. I really wish people would just wake up!!!!

[Klondike]

Sheila Gunn Reid proves NDP Enviro Minister Shannon Phillips promised off-highway vehicle associations they could continue to use the trails in the new park before ousting them with no warning


https://youtu.be/kngJfsgE2G8?list=PL...kqv6rfdNSjkQH5

Crowsnest Pass Quad Squad
**Please share and pass the word**

Hello everyone, sorry for the short notice but we did not want to post this sooner. BIG NEWS for tomorrow our protest time will begin @3:30pm at Galt Gardens! We know the new location of Shannon Phillips fundraiser and have acquired a permit to protest at the new location! We wanted to share this with everybody sooner but figured that once it got announced her new location would be moved yet again, hopefully this will not give them enough time to change venues again.

Please dress semi formal. Let's show everyone that WE ARE the average Albertan.

This will be a peaceful protest to make our point heard to HER that is so against our cause.

I hope to see everyone there tomorrow!!!
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...87346156643478



Those of you that have already purchased your pay for access tickets can disregard this post

Join Shannon Phillips for drinks and hors d’oeuvres in a casual and relaxed setting at Shannon’s 2017 Winter Social Wine & Cheese.

Tickets - $100.00 http://www.albertandp.ca/wintersocial

[Birchcraft]

The landuse.alberta website you linked is asking me for a password, any way to take a look at it?

[Unregistered user]

Remember the **** show when they created Peter Lougheed park and kicked out the snowmobilers? Once it's gone boys it aint ever coming back!

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Klondike

Sheila Gunn Reid proves NDP Enviro Minister Shannon Phillips promised off-highway vehicle associations they could continue to use the trails in the new park before ousting them with no warning


https://youtu.be/kngJfsgE2G8?list=PL...kqv6rfdNSjkQH5

Crowsnest Pass Quad Squad
**Please share and pass the word**

Hello everyone, sorry for the short notice but we did not want to post this sooner. BIG NEWS for tomorrow our protest time will begin @3:30pm at Galt Gardens! We know the new location of Shannon Phillips fundraiser and have acquired a permit to protest at the new location! We wanted to share this with everybody sooner but figured that once it got announced her new location would be moved yet again, hopefully this will not give them enough time to change venues again.

Please dress semi formal. Let's show everyone that WE ARE the average Albertan.

This will be a peaceful protest to make our point heard to HER that is so against our cause.

I hope to see everyone there tomorrow!!!
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...87346156643478



Those of you that have already purchased your pay for access tickets can disregard this post

Join Shannon Phillips for drinks and hors d’oeuvres in a casual and relaxed setting at Shannon’s 2017 Winter Social Wine & Cheese.

Tickets - $100.00 http://www.albertandp.ca/wintersocial

I sincerely hope some OHV and hunting advocates will be at this winter social. Would be good to meet directly with Shannon Philips and see what she has to say for herself.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Klondike

Sheila Gunn Reid proves NDP Enviro Minister Shannon Phillips promised off-highway vehicle associations they could continue to use the trails in the new park before ousting them with no warning


https://youtu.be/kngJfsgE2G8?list=PL...kqv6rfdNSjkQH5

Crowsnest Pass Quad Squad
**Please share and pass the word**

Hello everyone, sorry for the short notice but we did not want to post this sooner. BIG NEWS for tomorrow our protest time will begin @3:30pm at Galt Gardens! We know the new location of Shannon Phillips fundraiser and have acquired a permit to protest at the new location! We wanted to share this with everybody sooner but figured that once it got announced her new location would be moved yet again, hopefully this will not give them enough time to change venues again.

Please dress semi formal. Let's show everyone that WE ARE the average Albertan.

This will be a peaceful protest to make our point heard to HER that is so against our cause.

I hope to see everyone there tomorrow!!!
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...87346156643478



Those of you that have already purchased your pay for access tickets can disregard this post

Join Shannon Phillips for drinks and hors d’oeuvres in a casual and relaxed setting at Shannon’s 2017 Winter Social Wine & Cheese.

Tickets - $100.00 http://www.albertandp.ca/wintersocial

A pay for access event, just because they are everyday Albertans...

[sjd]

Originally Posted by NUK SOO KOW

You have all seen the way NDP operates. NO consulatation from public except the few that actuallysupport them. They continue to railroad bills through even though albertans clearly object. Bill 6. Carbon tax. They have their own agenda. They don't give a crap about albertans.
People do need to wake up. Not fear mongering here. If you actually take the time to research what is really happening, read about and where their "science" comes from and who, what groups such as Y2Y are all about You may change your mind.
Our public lands as a whole are about to be nothing but memories soon.

Read the article at the beginning. 400 edmontonians polled. 200 from rural communities. 600 people total. Enough for them to justify Turing the Bighorn into another park. Saying this is what all the people want. Look at the population of Edmonton itself. Not to mention the supporting communities. How can that even be possible!!!!!
With castle. Completely amending the original ssrp plan on Jan 20. Behind closed doors! No public consultation. A plan that worked for all users. Only to go completely re-write the draft. With NO public consultation!
They are full of lies. I really wish people would just wake up!!!!

Buddy, this is who public opinion polls work - professional public opinion pollsters randomly call a subset of folks in a given area and based on the results you can extrapolate what percentage of the population support a given idea.

Its a numbers game. There are way more non-motorized users in Alberta than motorized ones, and based on the history of damage, closures tend to be popular with a big chunk of the population. They re-wrote the draft you mention above after a majority of the respondents to the first trail plan saying ban quads completely. There's a summary of those results on the government website.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I sincerely hope some OHV and hunting advocates will be at this winter social. Would be good to meet directly with Shannon Philips and see what she has to say for herself.

Yeah, because giving money to support a fundraiser for your known enemy on a given subject helps your cause.
Makes about as much sense as supporting a hunting and fishing executive that would throw a legal hunter under the bus to pacify an unappeasable group in the hopes that they will leave the rest of us alone.

Instead, put the money into funding the next government representatives instead of financially supporting the current socialist enviro-whackjob that she has shown herself to be.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

Yeah, because giving money to support a fundraiser for your known enemy on a given subject helps your cause.
Makes about as much sense as supporting a hunting and fishing executive that would throw a legal hunter under the bus to pacify an unappeasable group in the hopes that they will leave the rest of us alone.

Instead, put the money into funding the next government representatives instead of financially supporting the current socialist enviro-whackjob that she has shown herself to be.

Give me a break. I would happily see $100 go to the NDP and have the chance to try talk some sense into her. I would get a lot further face to face than by any other means.

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Give me a break. I would happily see $100 go to the NDP and have the chance to try talk some sense into her. I would get a lot further face to face than by any other means.

And she will happily take your contribution to her war chest, might even make a show of listening to what you have to say. Then she'll tell the press that the OHV users and hunters attended her rally to talk about her wonderful plan, and continue to implement the plan anyways...and use your money to fund her next campaign.
You cannot win against well-meaning, happy little enviro-whackjobs with an agenda, you can only beat them at their own game. Which means tossing them out like yesterdays trash when the opportunity presents itself. It's no different than trying to talk sense to a vehement anti-hunter; save your breath.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

snip
You cannot win against well-meaning, happy little enviro-whackjobs with an agenda, you can only beat them at their own game. Which means tossing them out like yesterdays trash when the opportunity presents itself. It's no different than trying to talk sense to a vehement anti-hunter; save your breath.

United Nations AGENDA 21, & its latest update UN AGENDA 2030.

Both Agenda 21 & 2030 contain strategic plans for incremental implementation which include obfuscation of the strategic objective, and division of probable opposition by setting up small special interest groups to fight amongst themselves for small crumbs of temporary concession.

Similar to boiling a live frog.

Strategic wars are not won by focusing on tactical battles.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Klondike]

Castle Area Recreational Management Alliance

https://castlecarmablog.wordpress.com/


The Castle Area Recreational Management Alliance (CARMA) is an association of user groups and concerned citizens who believe that environmental conservation objectives and motorized and other recreation activities can be managed to be compatible land uses within the Castle area and other Public Land Use areas in Southwestern Alberta.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by qwert

United Nations AGENDA 21, & its latest update UN AGENDA 2030.

Both Agenda 21 & 2030 contain strategic plans for incremental implementation which include obfuscation of the strategic objective, and division of probable opposition by setting up small special interest groups to fight amongst themselves for small crumbs of temporary concession.

Similar to boiling a live frog.

Strategic wars are not won by focusing on tactical battles.

Good Luck, YMMV.

Yes. The big picture. Some still believe this is about OHVs.

[NUK SOO KOW]

Originally Posted by sjd

Buddy, this is who public opinion polls work - professional public opinion pollsters randomly call a subset of folks in a given area and based on the results you can extrapolate what percentage of the population support a given idea.

Its a numbers game. There are way more non-motorized users in Alberta than motorized ones, and based on the history of damage, closures tend to be popular with a big chunk of the population. They re-wrote the draft you mention above after a majority of the respondents to the first trail plan saying ban quads completely. There's a summary of those results on the government website.

There are many areas In Alberta for people who do not want atv use and random camping. Limitless. Public land use is getting more restricted all the time. Proper management in this area can result in a multi use area for many people. Their polls and surveys are completely biased to one side!!

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Yes. The big picture. Some still believe this is about OHVs.

"Oh Brother - Where Art Thou".

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by Taco

Thats one way, I was prone to Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??

He He!

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Taco

Prove it! Until then all you have are rumours and innuendo.

The above statement is nothing but flatout bull****

Really?

How many of AB's provincial parks allow hunting? The answer is 1, Cypress Hills, on a VERY limited Elk draw.

Have you seen the reports on how this went from a public consultation of all stakeholders to a unilateral government decree?

How quickly did public land become a park? What makes you think the same stroke of a pen can't transform the current wildland park (or whatever made up designation they're giving it to make sure not to anger too many groups at once) portions of the Castle from becoming the next provincial park?

I can understand being anti-OHV and wanting more regulations for them, I really can, but I can't understand being so blind to the consequences of allowing any group to be completely shut out of PUBLIC lands.

Hunting and fishing are next. If you can't see that, you're either very naive or purposely ignorant given all the info that's been posted. Every argument being used against OHVs can be applied to hunters and fisherman. We're a vast minority of the population, and the same buzz words of "environment", "science", "endangered species", and even the "poaching" and "destruction" cards are just as easily played. If you think for a moment you'll have any more success fighting this movement than the OHV group, you're a fool.

It is ONLY by ALL users of our public lands banding together and fighting back that we have any kind of a chance against those who are driven by their "green" ideology to close and ban access to our public lands.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Really?

How many of AB's provincial parks allow hunting? The answer is 1, Cypress Hills, on a VERY limited Elk draw.

Have you seen the reports on how this went from a public consultation of all stakeholders to a unilateral government decree?

How quickly did public land become a park? What makes you think the same stroke of a pen can't transform the current wildland park (or whatever made up designation they're giving it to make sure not to anger too many groups at once) portions of the Castle from becoming the next provincial park?

I can understand being anti-OHV and wanting more regulations for them, I really can, but I can't understand being so blind to the consequences of allowing any group to be completely shut out of PUBLIC lands.

Hunting and fishing are next. If you can't see that, you're either very naive or purposely ignorant given all the info that's been posted. Every argument being used against OHVs can be applied to hunters and fisherman. We're a vast minority of the population, and the same buzz words of "environment", "science", "endangered species", and even the "poaching" and "destruction" cards are just as easily played. If you think for a moment you'll have any more success fighting this movement than the OHV group, you're a fool.

It is ONLY by ALL users of our public lands banding together and fighting back that we have any kind of a chance against those who are driven by their "green" ideology to close and ban access to our public lands.

x2! It will only be easier for them to shut more recreation off. I've read lots of drafts and proposals and the one constant is the push for "quiet recreational activities." Who the heck knows what that means. but i'm sure it can be used against any activities we enjoy in the castle.

[Taco]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Really?

How many of AB's provincial parks allow hunting? The answer is 1, Cypress Hills, on a VERY limited Elk draw.

Have you seen the reports on how this went from a public consultation of all stakeholders to a unilateral government decree?

How quickly did public land become a park? What makes you think the same stroke of a pen can't transform the current wildland park (or whatever made up designation they're giving it to make sure not to anger too many groups at once) portions of the Castle from becoming the next provincial park?

I can understand being anti-OHV and wanting more regulations for them, I really can, but I can't understand being so blind to the consequences of allowing any group to be completely shut out of PUBLIC lands.

Hunting and fishing are next. If you can't see that, you're either very naive or purposely ignorant given all the info that's been posted. Every argument being used against OHVs can be applied to hunters and fisherman. We're a vast minority of the population, and the same buzz words of "environment", "science", "endangered species", and even the "poaching" and "destruction" cards are just as easily played. If you think for a moment you'll have any more success fighting this movement than the OHV group, you're a fool.

It is ONLY by ALL users of our public lands banding together and fighting back that we have any kind of a chance against those who are driven by their "green" ideology to close and ban access to our public lands.

If that what it take to restore or save some of what we had then so be it, colour me green

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Really?

How many of AB's provincial parks allow hunting? The answer is 1, Cypress Hills, on a VERY limited Elk draw.

Have you seen the reports on how this went from a public consultation of all stakeholders to a unilateral government decree?

How quickly did public land become a park? What makes you think the same stroke of a pen can't transform the current wildland park (or whatever made up designation they're giving it to make sure not to anger too many groups at once) portions of the Castle from becoming the next provincial park?

I can understand being anti-OHV and wanting more regulations for them, I really can, but I can't understand being so blind to the consequences of allowing any group to be completely shut out of PUBLIC lands.

Hunting and fishing are next. If you can't see that, you're either very naive or purposely ignorant given all the info that's been posted. Every argument being used against OHVs can be applied to hunters and fisherman. We're a vast minority of the population, and the same buzz words of "environment", "science", "endangered species", and even the "poaching" and "destruction" cards are just as easily played. If you think for a moment you'll have any more success fighting this movement than the OHV group, you're a fool.

It is ONLY by ALL users of our public lands banding together and fighting back that we have any kind of a chance against those who are driven by their "green" ideology to close and ban access to our public lands.

Walleyedude your wasting your breath on Taco as he is a NDP supporter

[woods_walker]

What some are not getting is that the Bighorn is all Public Land Use Zones, 6 of them, with varying levels of recreation activity restrictions, designated trails and uses and timing restrictions. Making it a park will either change nothing, or add further restrictions, otherwise why change what is already there. I like hunting one area because horses are restricted for part of the hunting season. Areas that in the 90s were closed to atv until further review, remain closed 20 years later. Random camping restrictions occurred. Government already has rules in place to protect areas like the Bighorn under the Forests Act and with Public Lands. As many others have acknowledged, existing rules aren't being enforced if there are issues. Look at the agendas of the groups like Y2Y and Alberta Wilderness Association who are pushing some of these agendas. Their actual goal for the Bighorn is having it as a protective buffer to the National Parks with an additional buffer on the area to protect the Bighorn. Basically everything west of the Forestry Trunk road is what they are proposing to greatly limit activity in. It doesn't stop at the Castle.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by dshaw

x2! It will only be easier for them to shut more recreation off. I've read lots of drafts and proposals and the one constant is the push for "quiet recreational activities." Who the heck knows what that means. but i'm sure it can be used against any activities we enjoy in the castle.

I don't know what quiet recreation is either but I would guess that it doesn't include gun fire. Can you imagine how badly a snowflake would wet themselves if they happen to hear a gun go off. Instant where is my safe space and a phone call to Shannon on how they feared for their lives. Or if they happened upon a gutpile. How revolted and upset they would be. It would ruin their whole weekend knowing an animal had died. I can just see it now. One activity at a time