Depriming brass

[J0HN_R1]

If you're using an F/L die, you need to lube your cases. I had tension issues (hard to complete the stroke) on my first few cases because I forgot to lube.

The lever would be very hard to push down, and it creaked/moaned when I forced it. I clued in, lubed them, and it was like night & day.

Make sure you set the die up properly. Put the lever all the way down so the ram is as far up as possible, the screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, lower the ram & thread die down 1/8 turn, tighten lock ring.

The decapping pin should be about 1/4" below the bottom of the die, 3/8" max.

Good luck..!

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

snip
After reading the thoughts here I have now done 30 in a row, no case lube, with no issue. Once I had the pin depth set right, it became easy.
snip

Famous last words,
If you continue to FL size without lube,
I hope you have a case puller, as a stuck case is only a matter of time.

Good Luck, YMMV, (but in this case I doubt it).

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

If you're using an F/L die, you need to lube your cases. I had tension issues (hard to complete the stroke) on my first few cases because I forgot to lube.

The lever would be very hard to push down, and it creaked/moaned when I forced it. I clued in, lubed them, and it was like night & day.

Make sure you set the die up properly. Put the lever all the way down so the ram is as far up as possible, the screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, lower the ram & thread die down 1/8 turn, tighten lock ring.

The decapping pin should be about 1/4" below the bottom of the die, 3/8" max.

Good luck..!

Excellent observation and comment.

[Scottmisfits]

Thank you again, I won't do any more until I get some lube of some sort. I will not use those 30 rounds, just in case. I will start again once I get the lube.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by qwert

Famous last words,
If you continue to FL size without lube,
I hope you have a case puller, as a stuck case is only a matter of time.

Good Luck, YMMV, (but in this case I doubt it).

Any guesses as to what his next thread asing for help will be?

[qwert]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

snip
Make sure you set the die up properly. Put the lever all the way down so the ram is as far up as possible, the screw the die down till it touches the shell holder, lower the ram & thread die down 1/8 turn, tighten lock ring. snip

CAUTION, This method of setting up a FL die will usually bump the shoulder too far back and lead to thinning of the head to case wall junction, shortened case life and possible case head separation, many experience reduced accuracy.

I suggest you search here for the many previous threads regarding "partial FL sizing", "partial sizing" and "shoulder bump".

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Any guesses as to what his next thread asing for help will be?

I hope not. I did most of these before he lube really ever came up. But like I said in my last post, I'm not going to use the first 30 that I did. I'll smash them flat so I don't forget which ones they were too.

[purgatory.sv]

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

My most common error is not reading instructions, then not understanding them.

When I started reloading my reference was the instructions from the dies and books.

Then interaction with known individuals at various clubs.

I sometimes wish the internet was available when I started, it would have saves me some money.

[Cowtown guy]

Hey Scott. I met you at Fly's the other day. I was working with Glenn.

If you want to come over to my place I can show you the ropes. You can bring your stuff and we can use my press. I will walk you thru it step by step. This is by far the easiest way you will ever learn.

I'm in SW Calgary and have no plans that I know of this evening.

Daryl

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

I hope not. I did most of these before he lube really ever came up. But like I said in my last post, I'm not going to use the first 30 that I did. I'll smash them flat so I don't forget which ones they were too.

Hold on, the first rule is 'don't get in a hurry to do anything'.

It is unlikely you have damaged the cases sized with no lube.

Just give them a good inspection, especially in the rim area, and then resize them again using proper lube.

I agree with the suggestions to brush & lube the inside of the case necks using graphite or motor mica to reduce expander drag which can cause neck concentricity issues. Any lube will work better than nothing, but most others should be removed by washing or tumbling before priming, charging or seating.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[densa44]

The guys are right! Die wax and graphite in the neck. Once you have ruined you r die, wasted a day you still won't have as much sad experience as me. If it takes lots of force to get that handle down one of these cycles it will pull the rim off of the case and the will have the rest of your day trying to get the case out.

I tried a bunch of different case lubes but since I got put on to die wax (right here) and graphite I have't stuck a case. You don't want to either.

It can get stuck in a flash!

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by qwert

CAUTION, This method of setting up a FL die will usually bump the shoulder too far back and lead to thinning of the head to case wall junction, shortened case life and possible case head separation, many experience reduced accuracy.

I suggest you search here for the many previous threads regarding "partial FL sizing", "partial sizing" and "shoulder bump".

Good Luck, YMMV.

Only if you over stress the lever/ram. Using the appropriate amount of force is the key, that's why lubing the cases is so important.

YMMV

[qwert]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

Only if you over stress the lever/ram. Using the appropriate amount of force is the key, that's why lubing the cases is so important.

YMMV

Wrong.

I am not advocating over stressing or inappropriate amounts of force, and bumping the shoulder back too far requires neither.

I suggest you research "case head separation", lots of information in previous threads here or Google this and other suggested terms.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by qwert

Wrong.

I am not advocating over stressing or inappropriate amounts of force, and bumping the shoulder back too far requires neither.

I suggest you research "case head separation", lots of information in previous threads here or Google this and other suggested terms.

Good Luck, YMMV.

Exactly, it's not how hard you pull the lever, it's determined by how the die is adjusted. I use trial and error to adjust the die so that a sized case just chambers easily. I don't size the case more than I have to.

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

...it's not how hard you pull the lever, it's determined by how the die is adjusted...

That's why I said to only turn the die 1/8 turn after threading down onto the ram.

I noticed the first 6 rounds I reloaded (I've reloaded about 50 cartridges so far, total) where I had the die turned down 1/4 turn, that the bolt handle wouldn't close on those rounds without a little more force than with factory ammo.

I had readjusted the die when I ran the next 14 thru, not turning the die down the 1/4 turn the manual recommended but only an 1/8 turn. It solved the problem but I didn't really know why.

Now I do, thx.

[elkhunter11]

The point that some of us are making, is that in many instances adding any preload at all results in pushing the shoulder back excessively, which creates necessary head space, and reduces case life. In some instances, I actually back off the die slightly rather than preloading it. It depends on the rifle chamber, and on the die.

[amosfella]

hmmm This is going to be ......

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point that some of us are making, is that in many instances adding any preload at all results in pushing the shoulder back excessively, which creates necessary head space, and reduces case life. In some instances, I actually back off the die slightly rather than preloading it. It depends on the rifle chamber, and on the die.

and condition of brass, if it was already once fired in the gun you don't need to push it back at all.

so it just turned out the die was set incorrectly?

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

so it just turned out the die was set incorrectly?

If this was directed at me, yes. I had to adjust the pin down another 1/16-3/32" to get it to finish pushing the primers out. I have picked up some case lube and will be getting some lessons tomorrow to set me on the right path from here on out.

[fish_e_o]

oh good, that's the best way to go about it.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

That's why I said to only turn the die 1/8 turn after threading down onto the ram.

I noticed the first 6 rounds I reloaded (I've reloaded about 50 cartridges so far, total) where I had the die turned down 1/4 turn, that the bolt handle wouldn't close on those rounds without a little more force than with factory ammo.

I had readjusted the die when I ran the next 14 thru, not turning the die down the 1/4 turn the manual recommended but only an 1/8 turn. It solved the problem but I didn't really know why.

Now I do, thx.

All presses will have some amount of deflection or 'spring', a solid cast iron press will deflect a LOT less than a lightweight aluminum one, YMMV.

Some presses are cam-over-center types originally designed for bullet swaging (RCBS = Rock Chucker Bullet Swager) and develop much more force as they go over-center than do presses equipped with a linkage stop that prevents the linkage from going over-center. An over-center press must be very solidly designed and built to resist deflection. Lighter built, and presses constructed of aluminum may defect much more than a heavier cast iron press, and some designers use linkage stops to limit force applied to the frame.

Some loaders prefer the high force of an over-center press, others do not. Some submit that presses with positive linkage stops are more precise and easier to change dies without needing re-adjustment, YMMV. Some users of Rock Chucker presses have added positive stops to limit linkage travel. Some prefer an over-center press for case forming; others have no need to custom form any brass. Some need to size very large cases or brass fired in large chambers that may require high force, some may use their press for lead or jacketed bullet swaging or punching and forming gas checks from copper sheeting.

To make things even more complicated, all brands of dies are not built to the same size, and there may be large variations in similar dies from the same manufacturer.

If you have a tight chamber or want to fire reloaded ammunition in any SAAMI chamber, then you need to fully size the case to SAMMI minimum spec. If you are using a lightweight press (with large amounts of defection) you will need to use a completely different die adjustment procedure than someone custom sizing brass (with a solid cast iron press with minimal deflection) to fit an individual chamber. Similarly, the individual rifle with a custom sized case may not show pressure signs using a charge that could cause blown primers and hard bolt lift in another SAAMI spec chamber, YMMV. If you are loading cartridges for use in any similar caliber rifle then you must not exceed the charge usable in the most pressure sensitive.

Hand-loaders define their product as custom ammunition, YMMV means there are no absolutes and different techniques and procedures may be required for individual situations.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

I got my press mounted up after I finally got the bench together. I put in my 30/06 depriming die, my #2 shell holder and I start to pop out primers. I have done 2 so far. First one come out no problems, 2nd one just wouldn't come out. It came out about half way and got stuck. Then I had to drill out the spent primer just to reclaim the shell holder.

Is that something common with factory loaded brass? It was almost like it had an adhesive holding the primer in. I have a few more (100) rounds to deprime, and then start on my 22-250 if time allows and I can get them seperated.

Buddy up with someone with some more reloading experience. Sounds like you could use some help setting up and going through the operations and stages of reloading.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

Hey Scott. I met you at Fly's the other day. I was working with Glenn.

If you want to come over to my place I can show you the ropes. You can bring your stuff and we can use my press. I will walk you thru it step by step. This is by far the easiest way you will ever learn.

I'm in SW Calgary and have no plans that I know of this evening.

Daryl

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

If this was directed at me, yes. I had to adjust the pin down another 1/16-3/32" to get it to finish pushing the primers out. I have picked up some case lube and will be getting some lessons tomorrow to set me on the right path from here on out.

Excellent.

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

Hey Scott. I met you at Fly's the other day. I was working with Glenn.

If you want to come over to my place I can show you the ropes. You can bring your stuff and we can use my press. I will walk you thru it step by step. This is by far the easiest way you will ever learn.

I'm in SW Calgary and have no plans that I know of this evening.

Daryl

I completely missed this post. Tonight I am out with my son for Soccer. I am heading out tomorrow to get some lessons but would still love to meet up with you at some point as well. Everyone has their own little tips and tricks. The more you know, the better you'll be, right?

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

I completely missed this post. Tonight I am out with my son for Soccer. I am heading out tomorrow to get some lessons but would still love to meet up with you at some point as well. Everyone has their own little tips and tricks. The more you know, the better you'll be, right?

Agreed. Drop me a line. I'm not working until Saturday

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

I got my press mounted up after I finally got the bench together. I put in my 30/06 depriming die, my #2 shell holder and I start to pop out primers. I have done 2 so far. First one come out no problems, 2nd one just wouldn't come out. It came out about half way and got stuck. Then I had to drill out the spent primer just to reclaim the shell holder.

Is that something common with factory loaded brass? It was almost like it had an adhesive holding the primer in. I have a few more (100) rounds to deprime, and then start on my 22-250 if time allows and I can get them seperated.

This happens to me all the time when I resize .223 brass.What I've learned is that sometimes the tip of my decapping pin gets stuck in the anvil of the primers and then when I lower the press ram, the primers get pulled part way back into the primer pocket, sticking out so I can't pull the cartridge out of the shell holder. A quick hard bang at the end of the press stroke usually jars them loose. I watch to see if the primer falls down into the catch tray.If not I lower the ram a bit and then pop it back up quickly. This usually knocks the spent primer off the pin.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

This happens to me all the time when I resize .223 brass.What I've learned is that sometimes the tip of my decapping pin gets stuck in the anvil of the primers and then when I lower the press ram, the primers get pulled part way back into the primer pocket, sticking out so I can't pull the cartridge out of the shell holder. A quick hard bang at the end of the press stroke usually jars them loose. I watch to see if the primer falls down into the catch tray.If not I lower the ram a bit and then pop it back up quickly. This usually knocks the spent primer off the pin.

I can honestly say, that in over forty years of reloading thousands and thousands of rounds, I can't recall that ever happening to me.

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I can honestly say, that in over forty years of reloading thousands and thousands of rounds, I can't recall that ever happening to me.

That one die of mine does it on one of about every 7 or 8 rounds. Always has.I suspect that decapping pin has a peculiar shape that just happens to stick in CCI 400 primers.

[densa44]

These are not all created equal, the Lee "paste" was messy but the best until I started using Die wax. The stuff you spray on just makes the cases stick. At least IME.

You don't ever want to stick a case.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

That's why I said to only turn the die 1/8 turn after threading down onto the ram.

I noticed the first 6 rounds I reloaded (I've reloaded about 50 cartridges so far, total) where I had the die turned down 1/4 turn, that the bolt handle wouldn't close on those rounds without a little more force than with factory ammo.

I had readjusted the die when I ran the next 14 thru, not turning the die down the 1/4 turn the manual recommended but only an 1/8 turn. It solved the problem but I didn't really know why.

Now I do, thx.

But JOHN_R1. I don't see how 1/8 turn or 1/4 turn is any different from one another. If you've raised the ram full stroke and indexed the die against the shell holder, turning it down 1/8 or 1/4 or 1/2 or a full turn still accomplishes the same amount of FL sizing, or shoulder bump I should say. Once the shell holder comes in contact with the bottom of the die, that's it, you can't push the case further into the die no matter how many turns you've added downward. Controlling the amount of "shoulder bump" on my bench is accomplished by taking a reference measurement with a gauge that fits on the calipers and references the "datum" line on the case shoulder. I then adjust my die in accordance to where I wish to go from the reference measurement. To each their own, but I don't smoke a shoulder and use that as a means to measure, I much prefer actual measuring instruments.