well look at that the government bent us over again!

[uglyelk]

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index....selectbill=012

Bill 12

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDA...4_bill-012.pdf

Just what we need another registry.

[S.A.S]

They are trying to ban body armor?

[Ken07AOVette]

Unless the deer and gophers start shooting back, you should be fine

Take off the tinfoiil hat.

[uglyelk]

yup already passed 1st reading

[thundergrey]

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

[hillbillyreefer]

Nothing like blaming inanimate objects for crime. Our Provincial Gov. has been guzzling way too much liebral coolaid. Time to change the toilet roll.

[uglyelk]

Body armor is mandatory in equestrian cross country events, pretty common in rodeo, some youths wear it in jumping events jumping. Martial artists use it for impact weapons training. Doormen wear it to prevent being stuck with knives. And some folks actually use it at shooting the range, safety gear, like ear and eye protection. Not to worried about critters shooting back.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

X2

[thundergrey]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Body armor is mandatory in equestrian cross country events, pretty common in rodeo, some youths wear it in jumping events jumping. Martial artists use it for impact weapons training. Doormen wear it to prevent being stuck with knives. And some folks actually use it at shooting the range, safety gear, like ear and eye protection. Not to worried about critters shooting back.

if you read it "sports" equipment is exempt and security persons are allowed as well.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Take off the tinfoiil hat.

Where do you think I should put all that foil Ken?

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

if you read it "sports" equipment is exempt and security persons are allowed as well.

read it again the vest must be designed for a sport specific use. But that's not the issue. Hell everyone with a pal also gets an exemption too. For the record door men are not exempt. the act references security personel, it is refering to the security personel liscensed under the the securities services and investigations act. Bill 10. It's talking about uniformed guys like loomis, brinks etc. Door men for the purpose of this act are not security personel.

The problem is the government has created another level of bs for us all to deal with. This is the friggin gun registry all over again. Permits required, seizure of property if you don't have your paper work in order. Police back ground checks with application for permits etc. If you move and don't notify the registar, your property will be seized and you get charged.

I'm starting to feel like Allan Rock is running Alberta. $10,000 grand in fines and up to 6 months in jail if I don't jump through their hoops. And for what, something I have owed to 30 years.

When the hell is the government going to stop pursecuting the honest folk.

This bill accomplishes what the gun registry did. It turns a bunch of law abidding folks into criminals unless the decide to comply with the changes.

Now we have had a restricted weapons registry in this country for 70 years. Did it keep the ilegal firarms out of the hands of gang members and criminals?

Will this new registry/permit system keep vests out of the hands of gang members and criminals, no. They are criminals they don't follow the laws.

Will this new law prevent some honest folks from obtaining body armour, yes. Will it provide tons of hastles for other honest folks. Yes. Will it be an added expense, yes.

Will it keep police personel busy doing background checks on honest folks yes.

Look the police are pretty well equipped, they have vests, they have firearms the rest of us can not have...just like the criminals. The only people impacted by this bill are the honest folks. This bill will not stop criminals from wearing body armor.

It would make more sense not to regulate possesions. It probably would make more sense to double a sentence if a firearm was used in a crime. Double a sentence is body armor was used while commiting a violent crime.

But hell don't get tough on the crooks, disarm the population.

My children are not old enough for a pal. Therefore I will have to process an application for each of them to wear a vest, complete with police back ground checks. You never know that your six year old kid might be a threat to public safety.

Christ would they just get it over and give us all a lobotomy!

Ken give me back my Tin foil hat , I need it again!

[Ken07AOVette]

wow I hope no one ever kills someone with a butter knife. Everyone will have to use sporks for everything.

[noneck180]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Unless the deer and gophers start shooting back, you should be fine

Take off the tinfoiil hat.

Thats funny

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Where do you think I should put all that foil Ken?

heehee

Maybe you can gather it all up and make a boat?

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

They can shoot the drug dealers in the face, I don't mind!

[uglyelk]

When they figure out that murders have been committed by people wearing footwear, we'll all be in trouble.

[noneck180]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

x3

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

. Door men for the purpose of this act are not security personel.

Doormen are concitered security personel. As of April 1st 2010, they will need the "guard card" as well. I happen to own vest for working in the night clubs. After the crap I have seen there I will not work without a vest. Yes I have had guns pulled on me before.

With the formation of the guard card and now bill 12 this means alot of qualified security personel will now be out of work until the registrations are completed.

This is going to be like the gun registry all over again.

The criminals will still buy their vests on fleabay and those who actually need them for lawful purposes will be taking it up the *** before they get one.

[noneck180]

Go on strike

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

Do you suppose the firearms being employed to "shoot back" are legally owned, stored and operated?

What makes you think that some BS provincial law, that makes it illegal to own a vest, is actually going to keep them out of the hands of those with ill intent?

I don't oppose this legislation because it keeps me from owning a vest. I could care less, I have no desire to.

I do oppose this legislation because it is another fine example of taking tax dollars and pis$ing them down the toilet. This will not keep this stuff out of the hands of those who are actually dangerous with it, and it can't do anything but good in the hands of those who are responsible, and law abiding. Why bother wasting time on another ban that they will have to burn time on in debate, then add it to the workload of our already overworked police and judicial system.

[walking buffalo]

Thanks for the post Ugly

I agree with your comments.

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

And how will a new law stop criminals from having body armour?

Originally Posted by noneck180

Go on strike

Run away, hide, give in to the bad guys? WTF? Or maybe more work for lawyers. Not much makes a lawyer happier than more laws.


Seriously guys, this bill is political whitewashing. It won't solve the problem, other than drive up the black market price for body armour, and give the police another charge to lay that the courts will deal with in a gentle manner. It will not increase public or police safety.

I noticed a couple of deleted posts saying " I don't care, doesn't effect me, I don't have or want one"
That is exactly the same ambivalance to individual freedom from government control that produced the gun registry.

[qballs]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Thanks for the post Ugly

I agree with your comments.




And how will a new law stop criminals from having body armour?



Run away, hide, give in to the bad guys? WTF? Or maybe more work for lawyers. Not much makes a lawyer happier than more laws.


Seriously guys, this bill is political whitewashing. It won't solve the problem, other than drive up the black market price for body armour, and give the police another charge to lay that the courts will deal with in a gentle manner. It will not increase public or police safety.

I noticed a couple of deleted posts saying " I don't care, doesn't effect me, I don't have or want one"
That is exactly the same ambivalance to individual freedom from government control that produced the gun registry.

Well put,
bans do not work!!!!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index....selectbill=012

Bill 12

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDA...4_bill-012.pdf

Just what we need another registry.

Sorry, disagree. I don't support the general use of body armour. Support for gun rights has nothing to do with support for body armour rights.

"The government has created another level of bs for us all to deal with." Us all? Not sure who you run with, but I don't know anybody that owns or wants to own body armour.

[Scotty P.]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Thanks for the post Ugly

I agree with your comments.




And how will a new law stop criminals from having body armour?



Run away, hide, give in to the bad guys? WTF? Or maybe more work for lawyers. Not much makes a lawyer happier than more laws.


Seriously guys, this bill is political whitewashing. It won't solve the problem, other than drive up the black market price for body armour, and give the police another charge to lay that the courts will deal with in a gentle manner. It will not increase public or police safety.

I noticed a couple of deleted posts saying " I don't care, doesn't effect me, I don't have or want one"
That is exactly the same ambivalance to individual freedom from government control that produced the gun registry.

X2! Instead of passing new laws how about enforcing the laws we already have. I used to work with a guy who got caught selling coke and "E". They caught him with dope and a shotgun that was illegally purchased. In the end they tossed out all firearms charges and he only got charged for the coke. He end he only ended up doing about 10 months and that was in some sort of minimum security work camp / jail. As a matter of fact he told me the worst part about getting busted was having to give up his brand new Accura to his suppliers for non payment on the pills. Last I heard he was back to his old way of life and apparently never learned a thing. Some justice system.

[rugatika]

Not sure why this needs to be keep being repeated. But you can have all the damn laws in the world and it ain't gonna matter. Do you really think a body armour registry is going to keep a gang banger from getting it if he wants it? How's that gun registry thing working out? http://www.vancouversun.com/news/sho...768/story.html How about that handgun thingy. http://www.lastlinkontheleft.com/e20...r0802guns.html

Do you mean to tell me that after hearing all the gun registry arguments you somehow think this is a valuable law?? Do you really think that gangbangers that are willing to shoot at police with what are likely illegaly procured weapons are going to worry about having illegaly procured body armour??

Oh brother. You can make all the cute jokes you want about gophers shooting back and tinfoil...but bottom line is this is just another gov't money pit and won't accomplish a single thing.

No wonder the gov't is able to pilfer so much money from us from taxes. They seem to be able to convince a certain segment of the population time and time again that this program or that program is essential to the safety and well being of Joe Citizen when it's just another money grab.


How about we stick with these laws and actually enforce them:
1) No killing or hurting people
2) No stealing or damaging others property

there...enforce those laws and you won't have to worry about the other pile of laws. Every new law a gov't passes is just another way for the gov't to say we care, we're busy, but we ain't gonna stick our neck out to get criminals off the street.

I have no need for body armour and will never buy any...but why in God's green Earth do we need to have another gov't bureaucracy started up to soak up millions of dollars for a feel good law that will do NOTHING. Did we not learn anything from the gun registry.

Time for these liberals to go the way of the dodo.

[qballs]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Sorry, disagree. I don't support the general use of body armour. Support for gun rights has nothing to do with support for body armour rights.

"The government has created another level of bs for us all to deal with." Us all? Not sure who you run with, but I don't know anybody that owns or wants to own body armour.

I would argue that the freedom to possess body armour is the same as gun rights. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot own. Why can't I have something that is meant to protect me??

Do I want to wear body armour?? No. I have no interest in it. But I support the right for anyone to wear it. You have no right to tell me that you do not want me to have it.
To have the government legislate this is asinine.......

[elkhunter11]

You can't depend on the police to protect you,you can't shoot back when attacked in your own home,and now you can't even wear clothing that protects you,what a great country we live in.

[mountainmike]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Do you suppose the firearms being employed to "shoot back" are legally owned, stored and operated?

What makes you think that some BS provincial law, that makes it illegal to own a vest, is actually going to keep them out of the hands of those with ill intent?

I don't oppose this legislation because it keeps me from owning a vest. I could care less, I have no desire to.

I do oppose this legislation because it is another fine example of taking tax dollars and pis$ing them down the toilet. This will not keep this stuff out of the hands of those who are actually dangerous with it, and it can't do anything but good in the hands of those who are responsible, and law abiding. Why bother wasting time on another ban that they will have to burn time on in debate, then add it to the workload of our already overworked police and judicial system.

X's 2

[NCC]

I can't wait until someone reports all of the rough stock guys behind the chutes at the Calgary Stampede, or a Brazilian bull rider flies up for a bull riding and gets detained at customs for possession of illegal body armour. If a drug dealer won't adhere to the laws that make it illegal to carry a handgun and shoot people with it, why would a law stop him from wearing body armour? Enforce the laws we have and quit making laws that burden the law abiding segments of the population and do very little to make society safer.

I agree with just shooting criminals in the head. I'm sure that most criminals are aware that the police wear body armour, and they aim accordingly.

[mtylerb]

Originally Posted by thundergrey

Cops dont need to go into a drug bust with 5 dealers wearing armor shooting back at them. If you plan on getting shot at and you feel you need body armor you need to find new friends.

Because a law that criminals obviously follow is going to solve that problem.

Originally Posted by uglyelk

read it again the vest must be designed for a sport specific use. But that's not the issue. Hell everyone with a pal also gets an exemption too. For the record door men are not exempt. the act references security personel, it is refering to the security personel liscensed under the the securities services and investigations act. Bill 10. It's talking about uniformed guys like loomis, brinks etc. Door men for the purpose of this act are not security personel.

Nope, this doesn't affect Brinks or G4S (Loomis doesn't exist, anymore). Brinks and Loomis are not required to have a provincial security license. LPO's, uniformed guards, private investigations, etc do have to have the said license.

Originally Posted by uglyelk

The problem is the government has created another level of bs for us all to deal with. This is the friggin gun registry all over again. Permits required, seizure of property if you don't have your paper work in order. Police back ground checks with application for permits etc. If you move and don't notify the registar, your property will be seized and you get charged.

I'm starting to feel like Allan Rock is running Alberta. $10,000 grand in fines and up to 6 months in jail if I don't jump through their hoops. And for what, something I have owed to 30 years.

When the hell is the government going to stop pursecuting the honest folk.

This bill accomplishes what the gun registry did. It turns a bunch of law abidding folks into criminals unless the decide to comply with the changes.

Now we have had a restricted weapons registry in this country for 70 years. Did it keep the ilegal firarms out of the hands of gang members and criminals?

Will this new registry/permit system keep vests out of the hands of gang members and criminals, no. They are criminals they don't follow the laws.

Will this new law prevent some honest folks from obtaining body armour, yes. Will it provide tons of hastles for other honest folks. Yes. Will it be an added expense, yes.

Will it keep police personel busy doing background checks on honest folks yes.

Look the police are pretty well equipped, they have vests, they have firearms the rest of us can not have...just like the criminals. The only people impacted by this bill are the honest folks. This bill will not stop criminals from wearing body armor.

It would make more sense not to regulate possesions. It probably would make more sense to double a sentence if a firearm was used in a crime. Double a sentence is body armor was used while commiting a violent crime.

But hell don't get tough on the crooks, disarm the population.

My children are not old enough for a pal. Therefore I will have to process an application for each of them to wear a vest, complete with police back ground checks. You never know that your six year old kid might be a threat to public safety.

Christ would they just get it over and give us all a lobotomy!

Ken give me back my Tin foil hat , I need it again!

x2, well said.

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Do you suppose the firearms being employed to "shoot back" are legally owned, stored and operated?

What makes you think that some BS provincial law, that makes it illegal to own a vest, is actually going to keep them out of the hands of those with ill intent?

I don't oppose this legislation because it keeps me from owning a vest. I could care less, I have no desire to.

I do oppose this legislation because it is another fine example of taking tax dollars and pis$ing them down the toilet. This will not keep this stuff out of the hands of those who are actually dangerous with it, and it can't do anything but good in the hands of those who are responsible, and law abiding. Why bother wasting time on another ban that they will have to burn time on in debate, then add it to the workload of our already overworked police and judicial system.

X2, another well stated response.

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Sorry, disagree. I don't support the general use of body armour. Support for gun rights has nothing to do with support for body armour rights.

"The government has created another level of bs for us all to deal with." Us all? Not sure who you run with, but I don't know anybody that owns or wants to own body armour.

You do, now. I own body armour. Looks like I'll be looking to buy more so that the government doesn't know I own it before this law kicks in. Not that it matters, most people on this board are exempt:

Bill 12: Body Armour Control Act

Exemptions

...

4 Subject to the regulations, the following individuals or classes
of individuals are exempt from the requirement to hold a permit
issued under this Act:

...

(f) an individual who has been issued a valid licence under
the Firearms Act (Canada);

Seeing as the PAL is a valid license under the Firearms Act, we're all exempt. It doesn't state Restricted or Non-Restricted, either, just a valid license.

Originally Posted by rugatika

Not sure why this needs to be keep being repeated. But you can have all the damn laws in the world and it ain't gonna matter. Do you really think a body armour registry is going to keep a gang banger from getting it if he wants it? How's that gun registry thing working out? http://www.vancouversun.com/news/sho...768/story.html How about that handgun thingy. http://www.lastlinkontheleft.com/e20...r0802guns.html

Do you mean to tell me that after hearing all the gun registry arguments you somehow think this is a valuable law?? Do you really think that gangbangers that are willing to shoot at police with what are likely illegaly procured weapons are going to worry about having illegaly procured body armour??

Oh brother. You can make all the cute jokes you want about gophers shooting back and tinfoil...but bottom line is this is just another gov't money pit and won't accomplish a single thing.

No wonder the gov't is able to pilfer so much money from us from taxes. They seem to be able to convince a certain segment of the population time and time again that this program or that program is essential to the safety and well being of Joe Citizen when it's just another money grab.


How about we stick with these laws and actually enforce them:
1) No killing or hurting people
2) No stealing or damaging others property

there...enforce those laws and you won't have to worry about the other pile of laws. Every new law a gov't passes is just another way for the gov't to say we care, we're busy, but we ain't gonna stick our neck out to get criminals off the street.

I have no need for body armour and will never buy any...but why in God's green Earth do we need to have another gov't bureaucracy started up to soak up millions of dollars for a feel good law that will do NOTHING. Did we not learn anything from the gun registry.

Time for these liberals to go the way of the dodo.

x2, again, well said.