Horizontal stringing

[kujoseto]

Assuming I have my shooting form sorted out and corrected, and there is no bedding issue, what do you think may contribute to horizontal stringing and correcting it?
Could it be:
- bullet seating depth?
- primer?
- thin barrel heating up?
- other?

What would you do to eliminate the options and how would you prioritize them in order?

Thanks

[catnthehat]

Horizontal stringing is often referred to as a"weather report ", and has to do with shooter form and doping the wind condition according to my coach .
Are you shooting off a good bench rest and read bag, and how much stringing is there ?

[kujoseto]

Weather was dead calm.
Pretty sure it was getting used to a new to me rifle and not getting it shouldered consistently.
Trigger breaks really nice so I’m pretty sure that is out. Usually when I pull one they go right. These were going left.
Cement bench, solid rest with Caldwell bag, mounts are tight, scope is tried and true leupold I pulled from another 7mm-08 and put it on this 7mm-08.
100m and stringing about 2-2.5 inches.
Although not uncommon I shoot better at 200m and I didn’t try that yet.

[obsessed1]

Rifle make model?

[catnthehat]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say follow through and trigger squeeze
Cat

[Dick284]

Horizontal stringing screams, 2 things.
1. The shooters form
2. Ma Nature.

[sage 13]

try seating closer to lands

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm going to go out on a limb and say follow through and trigger squeeze
Cat

Was going to say if it's not something with the rifle itself

Improper trigger finger placement/ squeeze
Improper check weld/ pressure ( too much, too little)
Bench movement
Improper placement in bags ( rifle not recoiling properly)
Inconsistent grip on either wrist or front end ( again too much, too little)
Inconsistent ammo
Wind

If it's a rifle issue it could be

Loose base screw
Loose ring screw
Stock/ barrel contact
Loose action screws
Action screws contacting stock
Mag well binding on action
Oil under action

Most often though it's shooter inconsistencies

[kujoseto]

Howa Alpine
First time shooting something so light... but it’s still only a 7mm-08
Don’t have a load developed yet but have never encountered this. Expected it to group more than that.
Gut tells me I’m doing something wrong with form. I was thinking maybe not set up great with recoil on my shoulder sending it sideways. I’ve done that with a 300wsm before.

Experienced guy like Cat saying trigger squeeze and follow through makes me think that is most likely. I’ll work on it first before I change anything but want info early so I’m not coming here in frustration looking for a quick answer haha. Any time in the past it was poor trigger control I was going right instead of left. And the HACT trigger breaks really nice. Better than I anticipated. I think I like it more than the Tikka trigger and I’m not normally a fan of take up.

As for follow through I was feeling pretty good as far as being patient and relaxed but there’s a lot to learn there. What I mean is I wasn’t feeling like I rushed out of position or let go of trigger immediately. Maybe follow through has something to do with not positioning the stock well for recoil though? Maybe need to square up better?

Keep it coming. Willing to learn.
Definitely need more practice with this one before I feel like I can expect more from it

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm going to go out on a limb and say follow through and trigger squeeze
Cat

Was going to say if it's not something with the rifle itself

Improper trigger finger placement/ squeeze
Improper check weld/ pressure ( too much, too little)
Bench movement
Improper placement in bags ( rifle not recoiling properly)
Inconsistent grip on either wrist or front end ( again too much, too little)
Inconsistent ammo
Wind

If it's a rifle issue it could be

Loose base screw
Loose ring screw
Stock/ barrel contact
Loose action screws
Action screws contacting stock
Mag well binding on action
Oil under action

Most often though it's shooter inconsistencies

[kujoseto]

Ah, I see more here already.
Replaying it through my mind, I think I’ll try something different with the bags. Wasn’t confident in the rear bag as the grip design definitely threw a couple shots during barrel break in and needed better clearance there. Still only about 50 rounds down this barrel. And setting the bags better may impact other things mentioned: fore end and butt control, grip consistency, cheek weld, trigger control ... gonna leave the rifle as it is for now. When I first got it home (out of the box before shooting) I cleaned it up and made sure everything was mounted with torque drive etc.

Nut behind the bolt is a little rusty too

Ammo is reloads without a finalized load to hunt with, but it’s definitely not terrible. Worth working with for a while. Reasonably consistent enough to try again. Based on feedback sounds like it’s a me problem not a reload problem at this point

This relationship...
Me: it’s not you, it’s me
Gun: I know, I was there

OP sure was asked in a manner looking for blame though.

[260 Rem]

For me, vertical can be explained by variation in velocity ... so something with the load....or...because of an issue with how the rifle is riding the bags during recoil.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

For me, vertical can be explained by variation in velocity ... so something with the load....or...because of an issue with how the rifle is riding the bags during recoil.

Absolutely agree, but this is horizontal!
However, looking at it, there is still a bit more than a calibre of vertical difference as well.
Cat

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Absolutely agree, but this is horizontal!
However, looking at it, there is still a bit more than a calibre of vertical difference as well.
Cat

Now that’s being gracious there Cat! Still a bit more? Sooo some vertical, lots of horizontal.... this guy is shooting groups like scatter gun hahaha
Definitely have lots here to take with me on the next outing. Gonna load up the ammo the same and see how it fares in comparison

[Deer Hunter]

My two cents
Move the front rest back towards the magazine where the fore stock is wider and fits better in the front bag. Squeeze the rear bag to tighten up the hold. Dry fire simulating the shot and watch what the reticle does on the target. Load the trigger and then break it. Don't squeeze through the entire pull weight.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Absolutely agree, but this is horizontal!
However, looking at it, there is still a bit more than a calibre of vertical difference as well.
Cat

Aarrrhh! This is what getting old is all about. Between the time I read the OP to my post, I “forgot” the question was HORIZONTAL
For a bit of horizontal, it is important to insure the rear bag is not moving sideways. This can occur as the result of a bit of torque roll or maybe a cheek piece hitting one side of the bunny ear. “Pushing” the trigger to the side can happen when only the tip of your finger engages the side of the trigger. Make sure the full pad is contacting the shovel and move it straight back to break the trigger. Something seems to be happening in the bags.

[shooter12]

I have seen similar groups in a properly bedded rifles when I was trying to increase the velocity and push them to the max and beyond that with a regular stock barrel.

If you handload I would drop a grain or two with a particular load as your barrel might be overheating.
Shooting 3 shots groups might help as well .

S12

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm going to go out on a limb and say follow through and trigger squeeze
Cat

Agreed. Up and down generally is breathing. Left and right is form and trigger squeeze. As I've found anyways.

[kujoseto]

Sounds like I need to correct a bunch of form and squeeze that trigger better.
And practice practice practice. I had taken this load out before and did better with 3 shot groups. Barrel definitely warmed up a little this time around but only shot 2 or 3 before giving it a rest to cool down. Maybe moving around so much messed with my setup too much as well. But I think if I know what I’m doing better, I should be able to sit back down with it and continue. Most of the time I’ll practice with prone off a bag or “hunting situations” but while developing the load I got into the habit of trying to do so from the bench. Never have felt really comfortable with bench shooting.
I will add that with my other 7mm-08 (a Cooper, go figure) I have three shot groups at 200m of .460, .500, .620 (or about that... .6 something) and I am feeling rusty. Most of the groups with that gun are around an inch at 200m so although those small ones are beyond my normal ability, the gun is very capable.

I’m still well off max load as confirmed with chrono on this one. I could probably still add another grain or more.

Thanks for all the insight. So much confirmation I just plain sucked and need to step my game up lol
I can live with that!

[outdoorsman12b]

You may not want to hear this but that is likely what your rifle i good for. First I commend you for actually taking a 5 shot group instead of 3 because 3 won't tell you much. Here is what I would do.

Take a 10 shot group at 100 M or Y whatever you 0 at. Measure the group and adjust the center of that group to be over to your zero. Fire a few confirmation shots and now you rifle will be properly zeroed. If you are shooting from a solid front and rear rest, barrel is properly floated, and your bedding is good, screws are all torqued down, than there is probably not a lot more that you can do other than finding ammo that the rifle likes more, or your individual inputs.

I don't see any shooter error in your group. Most factory rifles are only capable of 2-3 MOA. You will get the odd 3 shot sub moa which is why almost every manufacturer garuntees that.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by outdoorsman12b

You may not want to hear this but that is likely what your rifle i good for. First I commend you for actually taking a 5 shot group instead of 3 because 3 won't tell you much. Here is what I would do.

Take a 10 shot group at 100 M or Y whatever you 0 at. Measure the group and adjust the center of that group to be over to your zero. Fire a few confirmation shots and now you rifle will be properly zeroed. If you are shooting from a solid front and rear rest, barrel is properly floated, and your bedding is good, screws are all torqued down, than there is probably not a lot more that you can do other than finding ammo that the rifle likes more, or your individual inputs.

I don't see any shooter error in your group. Most factory rifles are only capable of 2-3 MOA. You will get the odd 3 shot sub moa which is why almost every manufacturer garuntees that.

I dont own 1 custom rifle. But many factory jobs. Not 1 shoots over an inch.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Although not uncommon I shoot better at 200m and I didn’t try that yet.

One observation I missed - if you shoot better at 200 than 100 there is something wrong with you loaded ammo NOT you !
If a load is good at 100 it should be good at any distance taking in the natural divergance due to distance .
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

It’s absolutely your follow through and a less than stellar trigger. Start dry firing off your bags to see what your sights are doing on target when the trigger breaks.

[kujoseto]

Chuck, I will try that! Gonna grab some snap caps and get them randomly loaded in with some loaded rounds when at the range next.
Cat, I think I shoot better at 200m from taking more time and being more careful. I also think there is the factor that the target I use at 200 I can frame better with the scope reticle. I test all my loads at 100m, 200m, and 300m before I settle on them. When I’ve got a good one I’ll go back to 100 and turn the power down on the scope a bit so I don’t see so much wobble with breathing and take my time.
I’ve been practicing more with a 22 as well. When I read the tips you share I’ll be practicing a lot more this summer. Come to realize I’m better at correcting my form with archery than rifles and want to change that this year.

Thanks everyone! A lot more feedback here than I expected.

[spazzy]

Top right pull bottom left flinch ... the 3 together tells me your zero is 1.5 inches left

[Dean2]

Light guns, even with really low recoil, are much harder for most people to shoot well than heavier guns. I had a real light weight 221 FB. It was a great gun for teaching people shooting form. Done right, it would do a 1/4", bad form it would do +1.5" no problem. Any issues with your shooting form will be greatly magnified with a light gun, even at 7-08 recoil levels. Cat, Chuck and the others are correct, the stringing is trigger pull and follow through. You must position the gun exactly the same on the rest every time and you need to concentrate on having it recoil straight back. You must also ensure you are breaking the trigger straight back, no side loading on the trigger.

[kujoseto]

Looking forward to getting out and practicing with a rifle I know I shoot well.
Then bringing updated pics of shooting this rifle after applying the advice here.
Man this forum rocks!

[aardvaark]

I didn’t read every word in every post above, so maybe this is covered already. But the guys that mentioned trying to dry fire and watching where your reticle goes as the sear releases reminded me of this.

I remember something that I read once from a long distance shooter.
And that was about putting ‘torque’ into your rifle before you touch off the trigger.
The torque that I’m referring to is when your rifle is sitting there without you holding it in one position over another and then you push it one way or another just that tiny bit WITHOUT the rifle moving on it’s rest, just to get that half inch on your target that you need. Then when you touch off the trigger the rifle overcomes that torque and jumps back to the position it was in before you ‘torqued’ it to get that half inch on your target; and this happens before the bullet leaves the barrel.
We all do it unless we make a conscious effort to not do it.
And it could be that with your bags, rifle, bench, seating position combo you are doing that somehow

Hopefully this makes sense, I’m not very good at explaining stuff. But understanding what I’ve just tried to explain helped me a lot with my bench rest shooting.

[Deer Hunter]

Yeah good advice. Before you shoot, take your right hand off the stock/pistol grip. If the gun stays still you aren’t inducing pressure that may move your gun upon trigger release. Then slowly re-grip the rifle, load the trigger and concentrate on breaking the trigger straight back. Cheek pressure, and shoulder pressure should create contact but not excess pressure. It’s especially important on lighter guns as you can usually get away with more inconsistent form on heavier rifles without it messing with your groups.

Sinclair has a good write up on it.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntech....htm?lid=16136

[kujoseto]

aardvaark, yup that makes sense
Deer Hunter, great link