The Challenge of CWD: Insidious and Dire

[walking buffalo]

Is the S about to hit the fan?

CWD is becoming an international concern of highest priority.
This is not limited to hunters.
Wildlife and Human health, international agricultural supply and trade embargoes.
Scientists, policy advisors and economists/big business are primed for major events that could radically alter how/if certain wildlife will be allowed to exist, complete upheaval of agricultural markets.

Place your bets, go short here, long over there. Make a $Billion.
The housing mortgage crisis will have nothing on this one.


A new information paper was released last week, now available to the public.
People from around the world are waking up to the CWD conundrum, some with concern, others seeing opportunity to make a killing.

Please take the time to read the document available for download here, give some feedback.
Did you read it?
Understand what was said?
Do you believe it?
Thank you!

http://apwildlife.org/publications/
The Challenge of CWD:
Insidious and Dire Only immediate action will avoid catastrophic outcomes

Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus, University of Calgary
David Clausen, (former) Chair, Wisconsin Natural Resources Board
Vince Crichton, (former) Co-Chair, Canada’s National Wildlife Disease Strategy
Darrel Rowledge, Director, Alliance for Public Wildlife

[pikergolf]

I read a pretty good chunk of it, not all. The worst case scenario is pretty bleak, best case scenario is not a basket of roses either. I'm guessing most of the recommendations will be ignored, as the warnings about deer farming were.

[slough shark]

I read a fair bit and can only hope they will finally take this seriously, hopefully they will be able to confirm and be able to deliver the vaccines. that would be a a good start anyways and help mitigate and minimize the possible effects.

[goldscud]

It is hard to fathom that game farms are still in existence on this continent.
Very scary that they are finding some uptake in certain plants.
I for one will not be doing any mule deer hunting in the east

[packhuntr]

Have not read the write up, but sure sounds like everyone here is scared out of thier whits! Guys quitting hunting etc etc. Im quite curious, when does Margo and loyal followers decide it prudent to perform mandatory submission throughout western regions within the province? Many of us have for a VERY verbal and long period of time wondered aloud, why the blatant disregard payed toward any suggestion of such. And what if it does exist and has persisted along the western alberta front? What then of the "program", the annual overharvest and disregard for nearly all eastern habitats, indigenous wintering species, landowners, and general upheaval of any and all social structuring as it relates to responsible, conservative tradition and values through land and resource recreation/utilization.
Edit. In a nutshell, eastern Ab is a warzone, has been nearly completely disemboweled over this,,,, and for years now, everyone is holding steadfast that theres no CWD just abit west of us here, and eastern Ab is basically to be reduced to ashes because "its contained there".
Yeaaa, okay...

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Have not read the write up, but sure sounds like everyone here is scared out of thier whits! Guys quitting hunting etc etc. Im quite curious, when does Margo and loyal followers decide it prudent to perform mandatory submission throughout western regions within the province? Many of us have for a VERY verbal and long period of time wondered aloud, why the blatant disregard payed toward any suggestion of such. And what if it does exist and has persisted along the western alberta front? What then of the "program", the annual overharvest and disregard for nearly all eastern habitats, indigenous wintering species, landowners, and general upheaval of any and all social structuring as it relates to responsible, conservative tradition and values through land and resource recreation/utilization.
Edit. In a nutshell, eastern Ab is a warzone, has been nearly completely disemboweled over this,,,, and for years now, everyone is holding steadfast that theres no CWD just abit west of us here, and eastern Ab is basically to be reduced to ashes because "its contained there".
Yeaaa, okay...

Perhaps you should read the write up instead of pondering out yer back side.

The origins of CWD are discussed. Pretty much statistically impossible for it to be naturally occurring.

One thing they don't talk about is the lower than expected infection rates of Colorado where it was first identified.

[HowSwedeItIs]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

One thing they don't talk about is the lower than expected infection rates of Colorado where it was first identified.

That is certainly curious- why do you think it isn't more of a problem there?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by HowSwedeItIs

That is certainly curious- why do you think it isn't more of a problem there?

Less scientists.

[bloody arrow]

this is going to increase the funding available for research significantly....Which is very good if your job depends on it....
on a positive side, we may get head of this terrible problem.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by HowSwedeItIs

That is certainly curious- why do you think it isn't more of a problem there?

There are many theories. Genetic make up of the herds, minerals, because of the long gestation of the infection the animals live long enough to keep breeding and having young. Now I have not seen the population age class numbers, might just have a lot of young but little big mature animals.

[Deer Hunter]

Scary read. Thanks for posting.
Things that come to mind after reading this is the threat that the Suffield Elk herd possesses.
Also, why aren't pronghorn being tested?
Also, certain WMU's in Alberta have a disproportionately high deer densities furthered by the draw system being managed for trophy quality. These areas are generally west of the known CWD areas. Are they enabling the spread?
Why aren't all areas being tested?

[Young Eldon]

The document is well researched and presented by very capable authors! It does a great job of pointing out how big businesses and politicians will do their best to ignore the threats to wildlife and even humans as long as possible.
Federal and provincial budgets for funding of more research and remedial actions will continue to dwindle until it is obvious to all that human lives are being lost and the next election is approaching.

[dugh]

I talked to a fellow this morning while I was at F&W. Apparently there was a CWD positive test from the Fort Saskatchewan area. I'm not clear on the WMU but it's either 242, 250 or the bow zone 248. The compulsory testing areas will likely expand but we as hunters can submit heads from all parts of the province.
Doug

[dbg498]

Deer Hunter, Pronghorns aren't cervids. I don't think there has ever been a case reported of pronghorns getting CWD. This is probably why the government does not test them for cwd.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by Young Eldon

The document is well researched and presented by very capable authors! It does a great job of pointing out how big businesses and politicians will do their best to ignore the threats to wildlife and even humans as long as possible.
Federal and provincial budgets for funding of more research and remedial actions will continue to dwindle until it is obvious to all that human lives are being lost and the next election is approaching.

Yes. And the really sad thing about it all is that if the politicians of the day had had the balls, brains and integrity to listen to and act on the expert advice that was given to them we likely wouldn't have the problem today or, if we did, at least it would be contained.
Too late now though.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by dbg498

Deer Hunter, Pronghorns aren't cervids. I don't think there has ever been a case reported of pronghorns getting CWD. This is probably why the government does not test them for cwd.

Thanks dbg. That's good news

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Have not read the write up, but sure sounds like everyone here is scared out of thier whits! Guys quitting hunting etc etc. Im quite curious, when does Margo and loyal followers decide it prudent to perform mandatory submission throughout western regions within the province? Many of us have for a VERY verbal and long period of time wondered aloud, why the blatant disregard payed toward any suggestion of such. And what if it does exist and has persisted along the western alberta front? What then of the "program", the annual overharvest and disregard for nearly all eastern habitats, indigenous wintering species, landowners, and general upheaval of any and all social structuring as it relates to responsible, conservative tradition and values through land and resource recreation/utilization.
Edit. In a nutshell, eastern Ab is a warzone, has been nearly completely disemboweled over this,,,, and for years now, everyone is holding steadfast that theres no CWD just abit west of us here, and eastern Ab is basically to be reduced to ashes because "its contained there".
Yeaaa, okay...

How about you read the information?
You are a smart guy with the ability to form unique perspectives (which is a good thing).
Yeaaa, okay?

Originally Posted by chuck

Less scientists.

"Bless the refreshments to nourish and strengthen our bodies."

No lack a scientists keeping an eye on these animals. They are simply following the data to an unknown conclusion, like praying over donuts.

Donkey hit on most possibilities. The decreased infection rate is possibly an anomaly. Other areas are reaching much higher infection rates, which could be the norm.

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Scary read. Thanks for posting.
Things that come to mind after reading this is the threat that the Suffield Elk herd possesses.
Also, why aren't pronghorn being tested?
Also, certain WMU's in Alberta have a disproportionately high deer densities furthered by the draw system being managed for trophy quality. These areas are generally west of the known CWD areas. Are they enabling the spread?
Why aren't all areas being tested?

The Suffield elk positive doesn't really increase the overall concern with CWD, other than the expected expansion of the diseases range and the potential future health problems for those that ate infected meat.

Sure, high deer densities adjacent to infected areas will likely raise the potential for spreading the disease. Are we ready to lower deer populations outside of CWD positive areas as a control measure?

"Why aren't all areas being tested?"

Good question. Maybe it is time for a mandatory CWD test of ALL harvested big game, including Treaty harvest.
There has been a fairly strong testing regime well outside of known CWD areas.
The reporting of these tests has been very poorly done.
Despite my repeated suggestions after being asked to provide an opinion, there has been little appetite to produce a map showing ALL testing that has been done over the years. These scientists are forgetting how important pictures are to us laypeople.




CWD prions can be absorbed by Agricultural crops!

Imagine if ALL of the produce from CWD infected areas are considered to be infectious material? What if the world decides to embargo all produce from CWD zones?

The economics of this very real possibility is staggering!
The near future may reveal a world where we can not only Not eat deer and elk from much of North America, but wheat and corn....

We have some huge and very difficult decisions to make, proactively or not.
And the politicians keep looking the other way....

[C & C]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

And the politicians keep looking the other way....

This is the key part right here.

While the article outlines very well what could happen if nothing is done, very few people care compared to the whole population. I could walk into work and I bet 9 times out of 10 if I ask anyone that doesn't hunt what CWD is they won't have a clue.

Unfortunately unless people are getting sick or it bridges the gap to domestic livestock and agriculture I would bet nothing will be done. If it does bridge that gap its too late anyway.

[thumper]

I think many people are overloaded with a wide variety of crisis's (both manufactured and real) that compete for their attention.

CWD, not being an immediate human health concern, is simply another looming crisis, to worry about another day.

[packhuntr]

You know WalkingBuffalo, i merely placed an unconfrontational post here regarding an extremely simplistic issue,,, and i get dough heads like Donkey Oatey and yourself attempting to drag me into a circle jerk for a gang wholloping. No thanks boys. Ultimately i will make the wild assumption that you are a pair of real smart guys, and with careful consideration of what seemingly lies thus far just beyond your grasp,,, will remain stedfast in potential fruitless belief that you two can piece together a mildly contorted, yet hopeful seemingly solid perspective of reality without leaning on and regurgitating spoon fed material.
Take care now and thankyou.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

You know WalkingBuffalo, i merely placed an unconfrontational post here regarding an extremely simplistic issue,,, and i get dough heads like Donkey Oatey and yourself attempting to drag me into a circle jerk for a gang wholloping. No thanks boys. Ultimately i will make the wild assumption that you are a pair of real smart guys, and with careful consideration of what seemingly lies thus far just beyond your grasp,,, will remain stedfast in potential fruitless belief that you two can piece together a mildly contorted, yet hopeful seemingly solid perspective of reality without leaning on and regurgitating spoon fed material.
Take care now and thankyou.

Ah yes, a case of the age old cranial rectal inversion disease.

There is absolutely nothing simplistic about CWD

[HowSwedeItIs]

Makes you wonder too, how many of the elk running around Grande Prairie are farm escapees or descended from escapees? I think they should do more testing out west, it might surprise us

[LeftArm]

Sounds like the cat is out of the bag regardless of what is done on the issue. Pandora's box has been opened so to speak.

Thanks for sharing the link Walking Buffalo.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

"Bless the refreshments to nourish and strengthen our bodies."

I don't know whether I should be angry or extremely offended.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't know whether I should be angry or extremely offended.

I believe he is just giving information and wanted to get your attention.

Belief and reality can exist.

Balance and respect.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by C & C

This is the key part right here.

While the article outlines very well what could happen if nothing is done, very few people care compared to the whole population. I could walk into work and I bet 9 times out of 10 if I ask anyone that doesn't hunt what CWD is they won't have a clue.

Unfortunately unless people are getting sick or it bridges the gap to domestic livestock and agriculture I would bet nothing will be done. If it does bridge that gap its too late anyway.

Originally Posted by thumper

I think many people are overloaded with a wide variety of crisis's (both manufactured and real) that compete for their attention.

CWD, not being an immediate human health concern, is simply another looming crisis, to worry about another day.

I agree with both of your statements regarding human nature. That is reality.

In general, people have to be individually impacted or involved with the problem before taking action or simply taking the time to truly understand the concerns.
Providing educational sources and then Marketing them is required to effect change in this fact. Achieving success here is critical for minimizing the worst case scenario of CWD related harms to wildlife and society.

These types of observations are part of my reasons for starting this thread.
As always, I desired to share new information with the Alberta hunting community that directly effects both wildlife health and hunting as a lifestyle.
Next was to evaluate how people responded to this White Paper.
In consultation with the Wildlife Alliance, I have propounded for clear and concise information that answers/refutes the hunting communities questions, and Lots of Pictures too. In order to educate people that have no previous knowledge of CWD, there is a need to use the KISS principal.

Note that this paper is NOT that base product that is needed.


I'll say that while not the result I wished for, I did correctly predict that this new information would only be read by a handful of people that opened the thread, and would receive few replies. Likewise, for the most part I am not at all surprised to see who did respond here.

Good ol' Human nature. No point in fighting it.

[walking buffalo]

Speaking of Natural reactions....

Originally Posted by packhuntr

You know WalkingBuffalo, i merely placed an unconfrontational post here regarding an extremely simplistic issue,,, and i get dough heads like Donkey Oatey and yourself attempting to drag me into a circle jerk for a gang wholloping. No thanks boys. Ultimately i will make the wild assumption that you are a pair of real smart guys, and with careful consideration of what seemingly lies thus far just beyond your grasp,,, will remain stedfast in potential fruitless belief that you two can piece together a mildly contorted, yet hopeful seemingly solid perspective of reality without leaning on and regurgitating spoon fed material.
Take care now and thankyou.

And my reply was also Not confrontational.
As I asked in the OP, I asked again for you to read the paper and comment.
If you didn't notice, I expressed a positive value to your opinion.

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't know whether I should be angry or extremely offended.

You could reach for another emotion.
My comment was not malicious.
Science is religious, followers have their own devotion.
The holiest question giving thanks for what they are about to receive.

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

I believe he is just giving information and wanted to get your attention.

Belief and reality can exist.

Balance and respect.

Always my Brother....

[Speckle55]

For the people who are saying that we are not testing for CWD in other WMU's 6000 heads have been tested outside known zone's

For the people who have said its never been stop or contained ..your wrong New York State

sad that we did not contain / slow down at border ... how is it working not stopping at border ..I posted years ago what would happen .. guess what its happened !!!

just Deer and Elk then .... now Moose ... next us ? Cariboo/Sheep?

What would CDC do ?

David

[kman35ca]

This is definitely pretty scary. What can a guy do to help this situation? Maybe start an online petition for the government to take this dead seriously now. And devote the needed resources to find a way to combat this. As a second year big game Hunter, who hunts the most hit area by CWD. I'd like to help get ppls attention on this.

[slough shark]

Would a fence be a prudent idea at this point? Keep it off the the east