Selling a gun or ammo??? READ this!!

Wiz · #1 03-17-2017, 02:52 PM

Just had another AO member try to buy a gun of mine with ammo. Guy seemd good with about a weeks worth of back and forth negotiation. The day prior to meeting, I reminded him to bring his pal to the meeting place. At that time he says he doesn't have a pal (yet). he said he just wants to get out and get an early start on shooting before his license arrives (he basically laughed it off)..

After I explained the legal repercussions involved, I think he understood.

The guy could very easily been a good citizen, but he also could have been a nutball shooter/potential terrorist who has been denied a PAL.

PLEASE for the sake of all legal gun owners in Canada, and everyone else, ensure that all people buying a gun or ammo from you have a valid pal. You do not have to feel embarrassed to ask. It is your obligation to do so.

Imagine selling a gun to a guy who then turns around a lights up a school or a mall?? Just sayin.

Be safe out there.

Flieguy · #2 03-17-2017, 03:12 PM

not to mention the legal repercussions on you as the seller if you supply a nonlicensed person with firearms or ammunition. Jailable offence, and you'll probably never have a PAL again yourself

Scott N · #3 03-17-2017, 03:20 PM

I agree... be legal or face possible serious legal problems.

Rio56 · #4 03-17-2017, 03:22 PM

maybe a dumb question but how do you deal with a PAL when you're shipping the firearm to the buyer ? ask for a number or even a pic of it ? I know someone who has some to sell here soon and he wants to be safe ....

CaberTosser · #5 03-17-2017, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio56

maybe a dumb question but how do you deal with a PAL when you're shipping the firearm to the buyer ? ask for a number or even a pic of it ? I know someone who has some to sell here soon and he wants to be safe ....

The photo aspect has been abused by fraudsters who will then represent the image they recieved as their own. To get some pal images they will post an ad as though they're a seller, in which they might well also be defrauding the other party of their money as they really don't have the item they advertised. Then they might take that money and PAL and actually buy a firearm with it, or just buy some more drugs, white sunglasses, Ed Hardy shirts, tattoos, etc.

For the last long distance transactions I've done (and any going forward) I just got the pal number and called the CFC to check that it was an OK pal (no frauds flagged under it) and that was it. Unless it was a restricted transfer I wouldn't offer the CFC details of the transaction, just verify the PAL validity.

lyallpeder · #6 03-17-2017, 04:35 PM

So much ammo seems to be sold here for darn near the retail price I often wonder if it's folks without pals buying or folks hoping to make their money back but end up taking less.

I have sold unneeded ammo on here myself, and never had anyone without a pal contact me.

Ldsh_tanker · #7 03-17-2017, 08:26 PM

Id be willing to bet a good anount of money maybe it was a fishing expedition from the RCMP maybe?
I have heard of them doing this to ensure gun forums with buy and sellforuma keep it legal.
Glad you did the right thing!

Wiz · #8 03-17-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldsh_tanker

Id be willing to bet a good anount of money maybe it was a fishing expedition from the RCMP maybe?
I have heard of them doing this to ensure gun forums with buy and sellforuma keep it legal.
Glad you did the right thing!

Might be trolling this site then.

Ldsh_tanker · #9 03-17-2017, 09:24 PM

Ya ive seen it on cgn countless times. And to be honest im happy to see it.
Keeps honest men honest you know.

Wiz · #10 03-17-2017, 10:17 PM

The guy who was in touch has zero posts on this forum. So ur probably right.

hilt134 · #11 03-17-2017, 10:17 PM

As i assume that you are bringing your pal with you and i only meet in person. I just keep my locks and maybe the bolt off the gun until i see your pal and hold your money in my hand. I generaly put in the add abut having a pal but honestly is a bit silly as they probably would lie anyeay and try and convince me in person. Good on you though.

CaberTosser · #12 03-17-2017, 10:29 PM

I once sold a restricted to a buyer who provided me all the required info. The terms sched went through just fine and while I didn't technically ask him for his PAL when he popped by to pick it up, he happened to be a uniformed RCMP officer driving a marked RCMP Tahoe. He did note this before showing up so as not to potentially alarm me.

In hindsight I think I erred in not asking for his PAL, but the transfer was approved & Kosher according to the CFC.

CaberTosser · #13 03-17-2017, 11:19 PM

'Terms sched'? wow, 'transfer' sure got aborted by auto-correct

gitrdun · #14 03-18-2017, 01:42 AM

Yet another been there, done that story. It's old news. If ya don't know the rules then maybe get into stamp collections......Next.

Brymer · #15 03-18-2017, 07:02 AM

I just had the exact same experience as the OP (even the wording). Probably the same guy. I was just getting ready to leave to meet him and find out he doesn't have a PAL yet.

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Pioneer2 · #16 03-18-2017, 07:30 AM

As well at gunshows people wanting to buy ammo and or a gun....NFL..Harold

Wiz · #17 03-18-2017, 08:02 AM

Yup. Guy has zeros posts and no history on this forum. I even Googled the name he provided (which matched his email) and came up with nothing (which is very suspect).

Also, when I clicked on his profile to view feedback it says I do not have permission? What's with that?

58thecat · #18 03-18-2017, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiz

Just had another AO member try to buy a gun of mine with ammo. Guy seemd good with about a weeks worth of back and forth negotiation. The day prior to meeting, I reminded him to bring his pal to the meeting place. At that time he says he doesn't have a pal (yet). he said he just wants to get out and get an early start on shooting before his license arrives (he basically laughed it off)..

After I explained the legal repercussions involved, I think he understood.

The guy could very easily been a good citizen, but he also could have been a nutball shooter/potential terrorist who has been denied a PAL.

PLEASE for the sake of all legal gun owners in Canada, and everyone else, ensure that all people buying a gun or ammo from you have a valid pal. You do not have to feel embarrassed to ask. It is your obligation to do so.

Imagine selling a gun to a guy who then turns around a lights up a school or a mall?? Just sayin.

Be safe out there.

You sell guns to people who legally have the right to obtain one BUT that does not mean they are a nut case.

Good on you for staying the legal road though.

Wiz · #19 03-18-2017, 08:55 AM

Ps. Seems like the same guy has contacted a few other people. He says he lives in red deer/ sylvan lake area.

CaberTosser · #20 03-18-2017, 10:02 AM

The guy obviously knows he's not supposed to be attempting to buy firearms without a PAL if he's been refused by multiple people. Perhaps whomever he's been contacted by should consider forwarding his contact information and purchase attempt details to law enforcement?

250mark1 · #21 03-18-2017, 10:17 AM

I have purchased 3 guns all non restricted rifles or shotguns off the old Facebook
Gun sites and was only asked for a pal once Was quite shocked

Wiz · #22 03-18-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

The guy obviously knows he's not supposed to be attempting to buy firearms without a PAL if he's been refused by multiple people. Perhaps whomever he's been contacted by should consider forwarding his contact information and purchase attempt details to law enforcement?

Thought crossed my mind. But I think he used a fake name.

Groundhogger · #23 03-18-2017, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio56

maybe a dumb question but how do you deal with a PAL when you're shipping the firearm to the buyer ? ask for a number or even a pic of it ? I know someone who has some to sell here soon and he wants to be safe ....

^great question. You ask for their PAL#, the expiry date of their PAL, full name and address. (you'll need that to ship anyway, they should not hesitate to provide) I've talked to sellers who are content with just doing that much, but, as an extra measure of protection/peace of mind for myself, I do what most cautious sellers do~call the RCMP's Canadian Firearms Program @ 1-800-731-4000. Follow the prompts, when you get someone on the other end, the exchange goes like this;

Me: "I'm selling a non-restricted firearm and I'd like to verify the buyer's PAL"

RCMP: "sure, can I get YOUR PAL#?". (You're not obligated to provide that)

Me: "am I legally required to give you that?"

RCMP: "no you're not, I thought you'd like to know whether or not your PAL has expired" (or some story like that)

Me: "then for privacy reasons, I'd like to simply make sure the buyer's PAL is valid before I sell them a non-restricted firearm"

RCMP: "sure... What's the buyer's PAL#? Expiry date? What's the buyer's full name?"

Me: (I provide all that)

RCMP: "everything is good, their PAL is valid. Is there anything else I can do?"

________________________________________

On face-to-face meets, I simply look at their PAL, make sure it's not expired, and do the deal.

Simple!

Livefree23 · #24 03-27-2017, 01:30 PM

Good information here... commenting to get into buy sell. Good info on covering bases for pal validation

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