..............

[Deer Hunter]

Thanks to my friends at APOS and SRD I have assembled some graphs on pronghorn stats in Alberta.


This shows the estimated antelope population trends and the number of non-trophy tags given out in the past 17 years. It is interesting that the most recent aerial survey resulted in an estimated antelope herd of over 18,000 animals, a 42/100 buck to doe ratio and a 51/100 kids to doe recruitment ratio which is quite high apparently.
There was only 238 non-trophy tags given out in 2017 compared to 1,222 in 2005 when the estimated population was actually less than it is today.

In 2017, there were 14,620 applicants for 238 non-trophy tags.

The period between 2001 and 2005 showed a stable herd and a large harvest



This graph shows that there is nearly 39,000 trophy pronghorn applicants for 1,016 tags in 2017. With the yearly increase in number of applicants being greater than the yearly tags being drawn, this draw is now impossible for new applicants based on historical draw data.
On average over the past 17 years, there have been 1,800 new applicants per year for 880 tags.



Archery Antelope is no different. Nearly 11,000 applicants for 195 tags. Over the past 17 years there has been an average increase in 590 applicants per year for an average number of tags of 225. Impossible for a new applicant.

Once again, non-residents continue to be able to apply in our draw system for Trophy Antelope.
However only residents get to apply for non-trophy and archery antelope.
Why is there this difference? They are all impossible now for everyone.
Also, there is the outfitter allocations which enable non-residents to hunt antelope every year.

We are losing hunting opportunities like these in our home province. Is there a solution that doesn't involve hoping for a warm winter?

Enjoy.

[Battle Rat]

Alberta does treat other provinces and territories hunters better than they treat ours.

[J.B.]

I have no problems with outfitters, but I think nonres hunters should be kept.out of the draw pool...

[packhuntr]

Id be cautious about using any numbers from this top graph LOL !! First thing and it sticks right out to anyone that knows, one of those years represented there we lost 1/3 of our antelope herd, and SRD believed at the time and apparently held stedfast in their belief that the herd was GROWING, LOL
As you were DeerHunter. Its really super to see that our herd has virtually doubled since 2010. Love to know where these antelope are lololol! Wheres waldo! Go get those 40 antelope buck tags. Just remember. Bucks dont have babies... you can find more info about that using Google, or maybe the neighbors teenager can tell you about the birds and the bees
Be interesting to pull afew guys in on this one, there are alot of detailed notes regarding this in existence.
Looks great! Big thumbs up, Take it too em!

Im gonna edit this and add, for those out there that can read between the lines and cannot be buffaloed, and you are out there, your intuition is right. Wether you get to see this daily or not. There are problems with mgmt, and there are problems with people mgmt. Its a train wreck. Its sad and its a reality.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Id be cautious about using any numbers from this top graph LOL !! First thing and it sticks right out to anyone that knows, one of those years represented there we lost 1/3 of our antelope herd, and SRD believed at the time and apparently held stedfast in their belief that the herd was GROWING, LOL
As you were DeerHunter. Its really super to see that our herd has virtually doubled since 2010. Love to know where these antelope are lololol! Wheres waldo! Go get those 40 antelope buck tags. Just remember. Bucks dont have babies... you can find more info about that using Google, or maybe the neighbors teenager can tell you about the birds and the bees
Be interesting to pull afew guys in on this one, there are alot of detailed notes regarding this in existence.
Looks great! Big thumbs up, Take it too em!

Im gonna edit this and add, for those out there that can read between the lines and cannot be buffaloed, and you are out there, your intuition is right. Wether you get to see this daily or not. There are problems with mgmt, and there are problems with people mgmt. Its a train wreck. Its sad and its a reality.

That's the most meaningless gibberish

[packhuntr]

Deerhunter. I just gotta ask, i have an inquisitive bone.
Your last sentance, you ask what can be done besides pray for a warm winter... Well we've had em. Been a pretty good run. We sure coulda had a lot higher herd count right now, but maybe its time something else was looked at, what with the resident hunter temperature on this draw deal and all.
I ask what you see when you look at what youve presented here?
I see what everyone else does. An antelope herd that could use strengthened, for multiple reasons, and i see the answer for all the questions staring straight back at us in your first chart.
You think we should be ramping up doe harvest rates? Do you think this provides answers to your ponderings? Theres a 4 pager going on that i bet quite afew people had wished youd have weighed in on.
Just might be worth a look Deer hunter. Progress doesnt have to be a painful all out battle over these small volume, blindly targeted non res tags.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

That's the most meaningless gibberish

Which part has you confounded lol
Anything of value out of downtown calgary there lol. Guess not
Ive said all i had to say, its time to hunt.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by J.B.

I have no problems with outfitters, but I think nonres hunters should be kept.out of the draw pool...

I would prefer it the other way around.
Eliminate the Outfitters and keep the NR's in the draw.

Neither action will make much of a difference in Resident opportunity, but there is a bit difference when and if the desire is to keep Wildlife a public resource.

---------


Thanks to Deer Hunter for making the effort to dig up the missing numbers and making the charts.

Now a few people here won't be able to BS their way by spouting ignorance.

The current draw system is broken in cases such as with Pronghorns.
F&W needs to get their act together and finish the work they promised to do years ago.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Which part has you confounded lol
Anything of value out of downtown calgary there lol. Guess not
Ive said all i had to say, its time to hunt.

Almost all of it, either you're illiterate or drunk

[calgarychef]

Makes sense to me... I agree keep our wildlife for the public not the paying hunters. money changing hands for the life of an animal is a little bit wrong.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I would prefer it the other way around.
Eliminate the Outfitters and keep the NR's in the draw.

Neither action will make much of a difference in Resident opportunity, but there is a bit difference when and if the desire is to keep Wildlife a public resource.

---------


Thanks to Deer Hunter for making the effort to dig up the missing numbers and making the charts.

Now a few people here won't be able to BS their way by spouting ignorance.

The current draw system is broken in cases such as with Pronghorns.
F&W needs to get their act together and finish the work they promised to do years ago.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Makes sense to me... I agree keep our wildlife for the public not the paying hunters. money changing hands for the life of an animal is a little bit wrong.

Speaking of drunk. Thats a strange thing to say, for someone that is, im guessing a Chef, in Calgary... naw, your not part of any marketing of animals or animal parts for money...
i think some people here need to look long and hard at what it is thats happening here. We have far too many people falling out of touch with reality. This is a bad road

[nube]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Makes sense to me... I agree keep our wildlife for the public not the paying hunters. money changing hands for the life of an animal is a little bit wrong.

Its the paying hunter that gives back to conservation more so I would be careful what you wish for.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by nube

Its the paying hunter that gives back to conservation more so I would be careful what you wish for.

I haven't seen proof of that.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by nube

Its the paying hunter that gives back to conservation more so I would be careful what you wish for.

So outfitters donate their fees to conservation groups In Alberta??? I would like to see proof of this.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by LKILR

So outfitters donate their fees to conservation groups In Alberta??? I would like to see proof of this.

The outfitter in our area just bought himself a nice new chev dually 1 ton and a boat, so I doubt he gives much back to conservation efforts. LOL!

[Deer Hunter]

The regulations need to change so that more opportunity is directed towards residents. Not less as some outfitters would prefer.
Increasing tag numbers during periods of good antelope population is also a good idea.
With an estimated 9420 does in the province having 0.51 kids per doe, you should be able to harvest more, and still have population growth.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The regulations need to change so that more opportunity is directed towards residents. Not less as some outfitters would prefer.
Increasing tag numbers during periods of good antelope population is also a good idea.
With an estimated 9420 does in the province having 0.51 kids per doe, you should be able to harvest more, and still have population growth.

LOLOLOL!
With the lack of acknowledgment that there is potential to have more of a good thing, your cause is lost as you are looking away and plugging your ears.

[packhuntr]

A solution that costs NO money, and requires NO work is a hard one to find. Watch antelope act like antelope, and in short order tags numbers are through this ridiculous ceiling we have placed upon ourselves.
Just cant factor it.

[Deer Hunter]

Make no mistake about it. There are some in this province that would gladly support the removal of all resident hunting opportunity just so they could make an extra dollar.
As seen before, they use incorrect/poor information to further their special interest agendas. And as resident hunters, future generations depending, we allow it. Laying down.

[MKD]

My estimate of the Pronghorn population in one AMA differs from the official position. I did not see the numbers I would expect for the 100% increase in tags in that zone.
Perhaps they were all hiding. I hope the official estimate is correct for all those who drew a tag this year.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Make no mistake about it. There are some in this province that would gladly support the removal of all resident hunting opportunity just so they could make an extra dollar.
As seen before, they use incorrect/poor information to further their special interest agendas. And as resident hunters, future generations depending, we allow it. Laying down.

Whom do you speak of, Deerhunter? Thats one severely bold claim that keeps rearing its ugly unfathomable head. Who in Ab is claiming or pushing for this!?

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by MKD

My estimate of the Pronghorn population in one AMA differs from the official position. I did not see the numbers I would expect for the 100% increase in tags in that zone.
Perhaps they were all hiding. I hope the official estimate is correct for all those who drew a tag this year.

They are not there, you are not blind. The numbers are being doctored!

[bowhunter9841]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Thanks to my friends at APOS and SRD I have assembled some graphs on pronghorn stats in Alberta.


This shows the estimated antelope population trends and the number of non-trophy tags given out in the past 17 years. It is interesting that the most recent aerial survey resulted in an estimated antelope herd of over 18,000 animals, a 42/100 buck to doe ratio and a 51/100 kids to doe recruitment ratio which is quite high apparently.
There was only 238 non-trophy tags given out in 2017 compared to 1,222 in 2005 when the estimated population was actually less than it is today.

In 2017, there were 14,620 applicants for 238 non-trophy tags.

The period between 2001 and 2005 showed a stable herd and a large harvest



This graph shows that there is nearly 39,000 trophy pronghorn applicants for 1,016 tags in 2017. With the yearly increase in number of applicants being greater than the yearly tags being drawn, this draw is now impossible for new applicants based on historical draw data.
On average over the past 17 years, there have been 1,800 new applicants per year for 880 tags.



Archery Antelope is no different. Nearly 11,000 applicants for 195 tags. Over the past 17 years there has been an average increase in 590 applicants per year for an average number of tags of 225. Impossible for a new applicant.

Once again, non-residents continue to be able to apply in our draw system for Trophy Antelope.
However only residents get to apply for non-trophy and archery antelope.
Why is there this difference? They are all impossible now for everyone.
Also, there is the outfitter allocations which enable non-residents to hunt antelope every year.

We are losing hunting opportunities like these in our home province. Is there a solution that doesn't involve hoping for a warm winter?

Enjoy.

Every time that someone writes up one of these threads, they always leave out the ratio of hunters that 999 their choice. Yeah, there was over 38,000 people putting in applications for trophy antelope in 2017. However, over 27,000 of those people 999'd the draw. Therefore, there was only approximately 11,000 people competing for those 1016 tags.

I would like to see an increase in tags, but if our herd can not support it, then I guess we have to wait our turn. I think that non residents should have to draw tags as well. Including the hunters hiring the services of an outfitter. There should be a limited percentage of draws put aside to non residents. And everybody hunting from out of province should have to enter the draw as well.

[nube]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I haven't seen proof of that.

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on things before you comment. It doesn't take long to figure out a few things.
There is so much that outfitting does in Alberta but you are too blind to see or do not take the time to see it.
There are a pile of outfitters that put in their own time and efforts working with the Gov't for the goal of conservation in mind. How much time, effort and money do you put in?


"Alberta’s outfitting industry is an active participant in the province’s conservation community and contributes considerable funding to aerial surveying, conservation projects and research initiatives, through our Wildlife Management Fund, in addition to the significant contributions of time, money and services donated by individual outfitters."

"WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT FUND
A Wildlife Management Fund was established in 2003 during the 10-year renewal of allocations process, funded through “reconfirmation” fees. This money is earmarked annually to supplement aerial big game surveys and inventories and to provide funding for studies of specific wildlife species or issues. Approximately $140,000 are generated annually in support of these conservation initiatives, guided by a committee comprised of representatives of APOS and the Government of Alberta."

https://www.apos.ab.ca/about-apos/wi...anagement-fund

[nube]

Originally Posted by bowhunter9841

Every time that someone writes up one of these threads, they always leave out the ratio of hunters that 999 their choice. Yeah, there was over 38,000 people putting in applications for trophy antelope in 2017. However, over 27,000 of those people 999'd the draw. Therefore, there was only approximately 11,000 people competing for those 1016 tags.

I would like to see an increase in tags, but if our herd can not support it, then I guess we have to wait our turn. I think that non residents should have to draw tags as well. Including the hunters hiring the services of an outfitter. There should be a limited percentage of draws put aside to non residents. And everybody hunting from out of province should have to enter the draw as well.

How is limiting hunters to a draw going to change anything other than making it so a non resident American can't go every year?
It won't change a thing for residents at all. The same number of hunters will have tags and your wait times will all be the same. Not sure why guys want to put Non resident Americans on a draw?

[packhuntr]

Hahaha, ask any goverment in operation today to throw in just a fraction of what outfitting raises for these initiatives, and prepare for govt to laugh you out of the room. Govt will only be operating on tighter and tighter budgets moving foreward. Wildlife must self fund into the future to remain viable.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by nube

How is limiting hunters to a draw going to change anything other than making it so a non resident American can't go every year?
It won't change a thing for residents at all. The same number of hunters will have tags and your wait times will all be the same. Noture why guys want to put Non resident Americans on a draw?

Through putting all non res on draw, small businesses/small outfitters will NOT be able to remain viable. It would over night kill every small operator. Only bigger outfits will be able to immediately stop work, and anything else that is going on to aggressively market to successful draw applicants. Death sentance instantaneous to even more small business in Ab that operate upon very renewable resources. It will overnight create monopolization, and a small percentage of large corporates will remain in business. Same principals as what govt is doing to any and all other business sectors. When stability is gone, so is work, income, taxes and everything else that comes with it

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Whom do you speak of, Deerhunter? Thats one severely bold claim that keeps rearing its ugly unfathomable head. Who in Ab is claiming or pushing for this!?

It keeps rearing it's ugly head because it is true. It's worse in BC, but here in AB there are a lot of Anti's and other groups that are slowly chipping away at the rights of hunters. Our current govt. also seems to be closing down access to lots of crown land and it seems that large lease holders have more power in denying access for hunting. There are other factors at play, but bottom line is that I can see a day when the only people who will be allowed to hunt legally with little diffuculty will be treaty Indians, or Indians with the right paperwork.
The rest of us will have lots of red tape to cut through before we go out for a hunt.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I would prefer it the other way around.
Eliminate the Outfitters and keep the NR's in the draw.
.

Why, you have out of province friends applying?

I can assure you that are far more than 40 nonres applying. I would love to hunt outside alberta some day, and if it means hiring an outfitter that's fine by me.

Hunter host should be limited to otc tags only. Outfitters can have some allocations for draw tags.

[DJS]

An interesting stat that would be nice to see (unless I missed it somewhere) would be what percentage of those total applicants are non resident?

Another question for the outfitters in this thread...do the total number of allocations each year change as populations fluctuate? It seems the number of tags issued to draw applicants change from year to year depending on population estimates. Just curious if outfitter allocations follow the same rule of thumb?