Access to road allowance

[GregT]

This is a road allowance that he recently been permanently blocked. Maybe I have misunderstood public rights to use county road allowances but this seems to be an illegal access. Can anyone clarify this?


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[GregT]

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[JDK71]

looks like you can still walk down it

[fish_e_o]

sometimes the county will allow people to close them off if they're renting it or something. in which case you'll need permission from the renter

[Okotokian]

I spoke recently to someone from a ranching family. She mentioned recently that they lease a road allowance from the county and use it. It's in a location where their land is on both sides of it. Now I might have heard wrong or she might be confused, but if she and I are correct, they could fence it. Not sure it would even be under the same rules as crown lease land with regard to the right to enter, hunt, etc.

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I spoke recently to someone from a ranching family. She mentioned recently that they lease a road allowance from the county and use it. It's in a location where their land is on both sides of it. Now I might have heard wrong or she might be confused, but if she and I are correct, they could fence it. Not sure it would even be under the same rules as crown lease land with regard to the right to enter, hunt, etc.

Last time I checked with them, in Red Deer County a landowner may fence an allowance that they have improved, foot access is still permitted in spite of any signage to the contrary posted by the landowner.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Last time I checked with them, in Red Deer County a landowner may fence an allowance that they have improved, foot access is still permitted in spite of any signage to the contrary posted by the landowner.

So, you walk down the road allowance, Big Deal, you still need permission from the property owners on each side, Unless the animal happens to be standing on the road allowance and dies there.

Grizz

[The moose]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

So, you walk down the road allowance, Big Deal, you still need permission from the property owners on each side, Unless the animal happens to be standing on the road allowance and dies there.

Grizz

It does not need to die there. Just shot while on the lease. I watched a guy pull up in his truck walk into a road allowance. shoot a bull, bull runs on a known Anti hunters land and expires. Guy called F&W they hooked a rope up to it and let him drag the pull back to the allowance. next day, buddy shows up with his friend. drops another one. rinse repeat. I asked the F&W officer about the legalities of it and he was perfectly okay with how it proceeded. in fact, he was more displeased with land owner then anyone.

[goldscud]

That is trespassing. The need to retrieve the animal does not trump trespassing laws. The landowner has to press charges though.
Fish cop is pushing it

[blackpowderrlw]

Originally Posted by goldscud

That is trespassing. The need to retrieve the animal does not trump trespassing laws. The landowner has to press charges though.
Fish cop is pushing it

I do not think F&W need a warrant to trespass or search private property.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by goldscud

That is trespassing. The need to retrieve the animal does not trump trespassing laws. The landowner has to press charges though.
Fish cop is pushing it

i'm sure they were given a choice of being ticketed for allowing game meat to spoil or having these guys pull it out

[Dale S]

A public road allowance has to be registered with the Alberta government. If it's developed for a road and registered it can not be blocked off. If the road allowance is not developed or registered it's under the stewardship of the adjacent land owners. The right of way is not leased or rented out to the land owner,it's free. There are 100's of acres farmed rent free in the M.D. I work in.

[elkhunter11]

F&W can remove the carcass, or they can assist the hunter to remove the carcass, but the landowner does not have to allow the use of motor vehicles on his property, so the hunter/F&W may be forced to remove the carcass on foot. As well, the physical evidence at the scene had better indicate that the animal was killed on the road allowance, and that no shots were fired after the animal entered the private property, or the hunter may end up facing charges, if anyone reports that the animal was shot on private property, and the physical evidence indicates that even a finishing shot was fired after the animal entered the private property. And if the hunter trespassed to go over to the animal before F&W arrived, he can be charged with trespassing, so if it takes F&W several hours to respond, which it easily can, the animal may spoil or freeze solid, and the hunter has no choice bu to wait for F&W to arrive.

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

So, you walk down the road allowance, Big Deal, you still need permission from the property owners on each side, Unless the animal happens to be standing on the road allowance and dies there. Grizz

Not necessarily. There are lots of cases where the road allowance is an access to crown land, rivers, creeks, grazing leases, natural areas, parks et al. I never said anything about hunting them.

[beaver hunter]

No clue what county, but strath county you cannot hunt road allowance

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by GregT

That looks like a foot friendly gate and some excellent grouse hunting beyond.

[spellswrong]

If the land owner leases or owns land on both sides of the road they can put up a fence but it still has to be accessible. Im not sure where this is but look up the county office that handles leased land they will probably go out and talk to the land owner. Ive seen fences with signs all over them saying "No Access" "biological diversity specific special science site" its people not wanting you to access land that doesnt belong to them. At the same time like most guys have pointed out you can still walk down it. chances are that fence will deter other people from going down it so you might be the only one who will take advantage of any grouse that might be down it.

PS if its a road allowance you dont need permission to access it.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by GregT

This is a road allowance that he recently been permanently blocked. Maybe I have misunderstood public rights to use county road allowances but this seems to be an illegal access. Can anyone clarify this?


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I've tried to lease the road allowance from the county on a 1/4 I have, and that particular county will not lease the allowances. Others, and I believe most in the south do. Do it really depends on where the land is.

We had to take an existing fence that came with the property down because of the complaint by a group of horse riders.

[GregT]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to call the county office and see how this road allowance is "zoned"? I guess. I don't really care if the access is restricted to foot, I just want to hunt some chickens down it. This is lac Ste Anne county for anyone wondering.

[PFKGSP]

Originally Posted by normstad

We had to take an existing fence that came with the property down because of the complaint by a group of horse riders.

I know a spot in rockyview that a landowner blocked with the cement median blocks from fence to fence. County made him open it in such a way that foot access was available to man or horse. Feet count whether there are two or four. He was able to keep the ATV's and vehicles out though.

[powerbob]

Originally Posted by goldscud

That is trespassing. The need to retrieve the animal does not trump trespassing laws. The landowner has to press charges though.
Fish cop is pushing it

It's right in the regs retrieval of legally shot or wounded game overides trespass laws

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by powerbob

It's right in the regs retrieval of legally shot or wounded game overides trespass laws

Please show us where it says that.

[Pikebreath]

For the local residents, the bullet holes really enforce the public's right to access.

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Please show us where it says that.

X2 A private land owner can refuse access to anyone including Fish & Wildlife. The land owner will NOT be charge for letting meat go to waste. If any officer tells you different get their name and report them as they will get a lot of people in trouble.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by powerbob

It's right in the regs retrieval of legally shot or wounded game overides trespass laws

Would you kindly provide a link to that regulation. If an animal that you have shot legally makes it to private property and falls within sight , F&W can assist in the retrieval, but a hunter has no right to enter private property without permission to pursue a wounded animal. While pursuing a wounded animal, you are still hunting, and you can't hunt on private property unless the landowner gives you permission. F&W can enter private property without the owner's permission, to investigate if an animal was shot legally, and to recover evidence, so that authority could be used to retrieve a dead animal, but even they don't have the authority to authorize a hunter to hunt for a wounded animal on private property without permission.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by The moose

It does not need to die there. Just shot while on the lease. I watched a guy pull up in his truck walk into a road allowance. shoot a bull, bull runs on a known Anti hunters land and expires. Guy called F&W they hooked a rope up to it and let him drag the pull back to the allowance. next day, buddy shows up with his friend. drops another one. rinse repeat. I asked the F&W officer about the legalities of it and he was perfectly okay with how it proceeded. in fact, he was more displeased with land owner then anyone.

that's not right F&Wshould not let this happen

[The moose]

in my case above. There was 100% clear evidence the bull was shot while on the road allowance. only a single shot was fired. The F&W officer was the only person to access the private land. The hunter never crossed the private boundary after being refused access to recover the animal. Again, this was on a known anti hunters property who had previous run ins with this F&W officer in regards to a different expired animal that had come into his property from a nearby grazing lease (which I was hunting at the time I saw the incident). In that case the property owner was hostile towards the officer who in turn phoned a RCMP officer to address the issue. That incident ended with the recovery of the animal thru towing with a rope to the allowance as well.

ALL in ALL I would not suggest its a good practice to push your luck like this. I try to avoid hostilities as much as possible as its does not help our image. However, sometimes people can be very irrational. You cant control where the animal runs after being mortally wounded.

(in the second case with his buddy the animal dropped on the spot)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JDK71

that's not right F&Wshould not let this happen

Like F&W are supposed to drop everything , and come running to mediate disputes over access to private land. As understaffed as they are, they can't keep up with the work that they were hired to do, let alone get involved in situations where the hunters knew very well, that there was a good chance that the situation described could occur. As well, if the hunters asked permission beforehand, they may very well have been granted access, but many landowners don't appreciate people shooting next to their property and then expecting access to be granted afterward. This could be enough to result in landowners that normally grant permission, to stop doing so.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Like F&W are supposed to drop everything , and come running to mediate disputes over access to private land. As understaffed as they are, they can't keep up with the work that they were hired to do, let alone get involved in situations where the hunters knew very well, that there was a good chance that the situation described could occur.

Phone F&W and ask. I did even after talking to the officer. I also did not/Dont condone such a action.

Its private property on either side of the road allowance but different owners. I would possibly feel it okay if I had permission on one or the other.

[JDK71]

I have a 1/4 of land and on two sides there is no hunting . So when I hunt my land I make sure I am far enough away from the no hunting fence lines and make sure I take good clean shoots .I have hunted this way for years and have never had any animals run off my land .Not sure why people feel the need to hunt on a 20 meter road allowance if you do not have permission on both side to risky and shows 0 respect to the land owners but if F&W lets this happen then not much a guy can do . And I am talking about big game hunting not bird hunting