Rifle Blows Apart

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

That is true, I have also never seen Machu Picchu. Neither point has anything to do with the thread.

Actually it has everything to do with this thread when you pipe up about how smokeless muzzleloader are some how a huge advantage over black powder.
You have never tried one, therefore you have no clue.

[Bergerboy]

The reason why most primitive weapons is because they are often in high population density areas. Since these items have a limited range, the powers that be feel they are safe in these areas. Once people start pushing the limits of these items to make them effective at longer distances, their validation in these areas will go up for examination. Just like we learn in junior high school, push the line deal with the consequences.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

The reason why most primitive weapons is because they are often in high population density areas. Since these items have a limited range, the powers that be feel they are safe in these areas. Once people start pushing the limits of these items to make them effective at longer distances, their validation in these areas will go up for examination. Just like we learn in junior high school, push the line deal with the consequences.

Black powder rifles have a longer range than you obviously think. Once again, nothing will change except having to clean the rifle.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by double gun

Problem is, it doesn't. You can shoot black powder in these smokeless models, still use a full form bullet, still shoot out to 200 yards, still shoot incredible groups.

The only thing it changes is make the guy clean his rifle each night.



So let's restrict the use of any rifle. Let's go back to spears, that should make you feel safer.

make it round balls only then. as far as i have been told low energy rifles have been approved based on population densities in these area. if you make them not low energy they close the loophole.


ps. i'm way way ahead of you
http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=296749&

i got a deer last year

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by double gun

Black powder rifles have a longer range than you obviously think. Once again, nothing will change except having to clean the rifle.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

This could be true as I have only owned one and it was an inline. It was very limited to 100m as it would shoot 12" groups regardless of what I put through it. Still a minute of whitetail though

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

This could be true as I have only owned one and it was an inline. It was very limited to 100m as it would shoot 12" groups regardless of what I put through it. Still a minute of whitetail though

Next time, try full form bullets, from a aftermarket barrel. You should be shooting well under 2" groups at 100yards and 200 yards is well within your range.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by double gun

Next time, try full form bullets, from a aftermarket high end barrel. You should be shooting well under 2" groups at 100yards and 200 yards is well within your range.

my cva does better than that i use the powerbelt bullets. they were much more consistent than the sst's and i couldn't push the FPB's down my bore (i suspect they would have been best)

[double gun]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

my cva does better than that i use the powerbelt bullets. they were much more consistent than the sst's and i couldn't push the FPB's down my bore (i suspect they would have been best)

Congratulations - so why are you against smokeless again? Thanks for proving my point, about the propellant not changing a thing.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by double gun

Congratulations - so why are you against smokeless again? Thanks for proving my point, about the propellant not changing a thing.

i'm not against smokeless propellants i have lots of them

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

that guy has the sleeves of a wizard i guarantee it


why? probably to align with the primitive part of primitive weapon season.

correct, black powder substitutes are not black powder.

it seems like hunters have the least faith in any other hunter than any other group of people. if i see a truck drive past my field slow and they turn in i assume they're going to drive in and be stupid so i flip my hat inside out so it's blaze orange and hope i don't get shot. 99% of the time i'm right they're stupid and riding around with loaded guns shooting at sounds. so maybe hunters like restrictions because they have to deal with other hunters all the time.

I believe the intent of a black powder opportunity was to provide for the use of a primitive firearm in certain areas and seasons for specific reasons. Black powder substitutes are no more primitive than smokeless powder. Applied to the image of a genuine blackpowder muzzleloader they are a very modern method to circumvent the intended purpose of their use for hunting .. in Alberta. As usual, boundaries will be pushed until they disappear.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

While we’re at it, let’s make the perfectly legal for decades and completely harmless 10/22 25 round magazines prohibited for no valid reason.

Rather than try and make things more divisive between the groups, why not stand behind something that’s perfectly ok, even if it doesn’t directly suit you? Let’s ask the real question about that Salavee, how much does it really affect you enjoyment or your success in the field. I know it has zero negative effect on me, it’s legal, so why fight it?

It's just another modern trend. It's the spin-off that concerns me because eventually these "push the limit" trends affects us all. Oh, I forgot ... it's legal, Sorry

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Salavee

It's just another modern trend. It's the spin-off that concerns me because eventually these "push the limit" trends affects us all. Oh, I forgot ... it's legal, Sorry

I would like to ask you your thoughts on the archery only season, and the continual increase in technology with regards to compound bows. With bows now pushing closer and closer to 400fps compared to traditional recurve and long bows mostly shooting under 200fps.

Certainly that "loophole" should also be closed - right?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by double gun

I would like to ask you your thoughts on the archery only season, and the continual increase in technology with regards to compound bows. With bows now pushing closer and closer to 400fps compared to traditional recurve and long bows mostly shooting under 200fps.

Certainly that "loophole" should also be closed - right?

No, no objections for now, but getting close. I think I'll wait until they develop a chemical propellant for an arrow.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Salavee

No, no objections for now, but getting close. I think I'll wait until they develop a propellant for an arrow.

Lol - that would be neat, but it's probably been done.

It's tough to know where to draw the line on any of this stuff. I'm not envious of the law makers.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by double gun

Lol - that would be neat, but it's probably been done.

It's tough to know where to draw the line on any of this stuff. I'm not envious of the law makers.

That's for sure. Sadly, the lawmakers in this case know very little and really care less about what's going on. It's all about well organized usergroups and lobbies. It gets one feeling like the fly on a toilet seat. Soon PO'd.

[Salavee]

DBL post

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by double gun

I would like to ask you your thoughts on the archery only season, and the continual increase in technology with regards to compound bows. With bows now pushing closer and closer to 400fps compared to traditional recurve and long bows mostly shooting under 200fps.

Certainly that "loophole" should also be closed - right?

Well we got muzzleloaders with Tactical rails and Tactical scopes they're twirling in their come ups and windage after consulting their rangefinder and ballistics program and are killing game out to 1000 yds, probably more.

The more successful they become at killing game the more restricted these special seasons will get until they do like some American states have done to keep technology out and reclassify those muzzleloader and archery seasons to primitive open sighted muzzleloaders only. Gets rid of the posers who don't really want to primitive hunt but will hunt a blackpowder season if they can use modern rifles and accessories

[bat119]

A lot states have been dealing with the super muzzle loaders

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/artic...ions-by-state/

In California you need a lawyer on speed dial

eg. Colorado

Muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets, provided the minimum caliber shall be forty (.40) for all big game except elk and moose. The minimum caliber for elk and moose shall be fifty (.50). All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets from forty (.40) caliber through fifty (.50) caliber must use a bullet of at least 170 grains in weight. All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets greater than fifty (.50) caliber must use bullets of at least 210 grains in weight.”

a. During the muzzle-loading firearms seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose only lawful muzzle-loaders and smoothbore muskets may be used by muzzle-loading license holders.
b. During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose the following additional restrictions apply:
1.Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and smokeless powder are prohibited.
2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation cloth patches are not sabots.
3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms, which can be loaded from the breech, are prohibited.
4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other than open or “iron” sights is prohibited.
5. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to the muzzle-loading firearm.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by bat119

A lot states have been dealing with the super muzzle loaders

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/artic...ions-by-state/

In California you need a lawyer on speed dial

eg. Colorado

Muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets, provided the minimum caliber shall be forty (.40) for all big game except elk and moose. The minimum caliber for elk and moose shall be fifty (.50). All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets from forty (.40) caliber through fifty (.50) caliber must use a bullet of at least 170 grains in weight. All muzzle-loading rifles and smoothbore muskets greater than fifty (.50) caliber must use bullets of at least 210 grains in weight.”

a. During the muzzle-loading firearms seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose only lawful muzzle-loaders and smoothbore muskets may be used by muzzle-loading license holders.
b. During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose the following additional restrictions apply:
1.Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and smokeless powder are prohibited.
2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation cloth patches are not sabots.
3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms, which can be loaded from the breech, are prohibited.
4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other than open or “iron” sights is prohibited.
5. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to the muzzle-loading firearm.

Xactly the point I was trying to make ! You did a much better job.Thanks Bat119

[catnthehat]

Some States ( like Virginia) have primitive seasons where compounds and cap locks of any kind are not allowed, flinters and stick bows only.
Cat