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09-19-2017, 09:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nederlager
So many in today's society have twisted ideas of important things. I'd be happy to come and argue the case for her in front of the judge and tell him that society is over-regulated about nonsensical things. A fishing license for a young girl who is visiting. For sure, give her the electric chair!
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Troll central^^^^
Good luck with that, because losing a days wages to come submit a non-legal argument is going to win you her case. You sound like one of those guys that doesn't pay taxes and figures the law doesn't apply to them. Too funny
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09-19-2017, 11:40 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 464
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Reading the post at the start of this thread, it's unclear to me whether the violators MUST APPEAR in court, or simply have the OPTION TO APPEAR in court.
If they must appear in court, then that makes it sound like a more serious offense, where they may face criminal charges. For example, under the Alberta Fisheries Act, providing false or misleading information to someone enforcing the Act can carry a penalty of up to $100,000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail.
But by the description of the offense, it sounds more like a simple ticketable violation similar to fishing without a license, which is I think a $100 fine. If that's the case, presumably they can just pay the fine and not have to appear in court, unless they plan on challenging the ticket.
Assuming it is just a ticket, and since they do acknowledge their guilt, I'd say just pay it and move on with their lives.
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09-20-2017, 12:20 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isopod
Reading the post at the start of this thread, it's unclear to me whether the violators MUST APPEAR in court, or simply have the OPTION TO APPEAR in court.
If they must appear in court, then that makes it sound like a more serious offense, where they may face criminal charges. For example, under the Alberta Fisheries Act, providing false or misleading information to someone enforcing the Act can carry a penalty of up to $100,000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail.
But by the description of the offense, it sounds more like a simple ticketable violation similar to fishing without a license, which is I think a $100 fine. If that's the case, presumably they can just pay the fine and not have to appear in court, unless they plan on challenging the ticket.
Assuming it is just a ticket, and since they do acknowledge their guilt, I'd say just pay it and move on with their lives.
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Says they have a court appearance for the charges. To me that says mandatory. Not a ticket.
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09-20-2017, 01:01 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFishingEDM
Thanks RavYak,
Both of them have an order to appear in court. I agree she got lucky, they could of hit her with the $57 fine for not having a license and court appearance for using someone's license.
This freaked her out pretty bad, so I'm sure she's learned her lesson at this point and won't be pushing her luck again.
Thanks again for the links.
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Some lessens in life need to be hard lessens, consider it all part of the learning curve...some do and some don't.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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09-20-2017, 03:22 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,665
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First time offence probably not maximum of anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isopod
Reading the post at the start of this thread, it's unclear to me whether the violators MUST APPEAR in court, or simply have the OPTION TO APPEAR in court.
If they must appear in court, then that makes it sound like a more serious offense, where they may face criminal charges. For example, under the Alberta Fisheries Act, providing false or misleading information to someone enforcing the Act can carry a penalty of up to $100,000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail.
But by the description of the offense, it sounds more like a simple ticketable violation similar to fishing without a license, which is I think a $100 fine. If that's the case, presumably they can just pay the fine and not have to appear in court, unless they plan on challenging the ticket.
Assuming it is just a ticket, and since they do acknowledge their guilt, I'd say just pay it and move on with their lives.
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I would think it would be mandatory to go to court if there is possible suspension involved in the punishment.
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As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
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09-20-2017, 07:39 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 222
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Here is a suggestion that I know has worked for one family member and a couple of friends who had court appearances.
Most court houses will have a time when you can go before the crown prosecutor. Some court houses allow that for only a few hours one day a week.
That is why you would have to call.
And check if the crown prosecutor would deal with this charge. Some charges HAVE to go in front of a judge.
I suggest these two young ladies do that and based on other comments in this thread they should both bring along their fishing licenses.
This would allow them to see what they are up against as charge.
And they should be prepared to plead their case right there to the crown.
My hope in this is that the crown would issue them each a small fine (assuming first offence).
I would also suggest the young ladies say they want to continue to fish (hence getting the license) so that will deter the crown from banning them for any length of time.
Anyone I know who has taken this approach with the crown...which have been mainly for traffic offences...has had both fines and demerits reduced.
My comment here does not indicate I agree with this system, but it does reduce the docket load for the courts.
__________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. John Buchan
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09-20-2017, 10:07 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC/Alberta
Posts: 2,026
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So I just read about two guys fishing in Manitoba, the extent of the fines were $14,000.
It was all broken down for all their offenses. I was surprised one of the biggest charges was obstructing the Conservation officer.
What she committed is not just fishing without a license. She committed Fraud and mislead an officer, obstructing justice. Usually much bigger price tag attached to that.
Guess she never learned her lesson from the parents that it is always best to tell the truth. Hopefully she gets it this time around and doesn't face a significant fine.
Here is the Story:
Two Manitoba fishermen have been fined close to $15,000.
Local Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry crews have laid fines to two Winnipeg fishermen. The $14,900 of fines have been laid for fishing-related violations under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act.
A conservation officer conducting a fisheries inspection contacted the men at a cottage in Clearwater Bay, Lake of the Woods. In front of the cottage was evidence of recent fishing activity. During the inspection, the MNRF say that both men made multiple false and misleading statements to the officer.
A subsequent investigation by the conservation officer confirmed that both men had conducted illegal fishing activity, including angling for lake trout in a closed area and using restricted fishing gear.
Matthew Slough and Kieran McCormick were each fined:
· $3,500 for obstructing a conservation officer;
· $1,500 for making false and misleading statements to a conservation officer;
· $1,200 for fishing for lake trout during a closed season;
· $500 for unlawfully using fish as bait; and
· $500 for fishing with barbed hooks in a restricted area.
Slough was also fined $500 for fishing without a license. Both men are suspended from fishing in Ontario for two years and their fishing equipment was forfeited to the Crown.
Justice of the Peace Robert McNally heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Kenora, on August 28, 2017.
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09-20-2017, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,049
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She wasn't brought up knowing this is wrong?
What type of person is this "young lady"?
This is probably inductive of her attitude toward OUR resources, she is stealing from all of us legal anglers in Ab.
I hope she is hit with the maximum as she tried to perpetrate fraud after she already knowingly violated fishing regulations, this isn't a simple "no license" mistake.
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09-20-2017, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhad
She wasn't brought up knowing this is wrong?
What type of person is this "young lady"?
This is probably inductive of her attitude toward OUR resources, she is stealing from all of us legal anglers in Ab.
I hope she is hit with the maximum as she tried to perpetrate fraud after she already knowingly violated fishing regulations, this isn't a simple "no license" mistake.
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nice work no brakes for her she lied she new better
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09-20-2017, 03:44 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette
and in the same breath, many would say far too many do not care about laws, morals, about important things. What is there to argue? She has no valid defense, she knowingly broke the law and has to pay. What are you going to teach her, how to try to get out of punishment for doing illegal things, no matter if you or she agree with the law? Falsifying ID is a very stupid thing to do, no offense meant to the OP, please do not take it that way, OP.
Your teaching is flawed.
Plus you have absolutely nothing to gain or lose in offering to plea a case, unless you are a Lawy student and are looking for pro-bono work experience.
Why not put the young impressionable person on the right path instead of trying to get her off?
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^^^^
Agreed. We do have laws in place for a reason. Buying a license to me means ok, ya got me.
But we are all good now right??
And remember, the Officer will be there,well most likely, and he will push for a conviction.
They want convictions.
Call it a lesson learned, step up to to the plate. My two cents.
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09-20-2017, 10:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette
and in the same breath, many would say far too many do not care about laws, morals, about important things. What is there to argue? She has no valid defense, she knowingly broke the law and has to pay. What are you going to teach her, how to try to get out of punishment for doing illegal things, no matter if you or she agree with the law? Falsifying ID is a very stupid thing to do, no offense meant to the OP, please do not take it that way, OP.
Your teaching is flawed.
Plus you have absolutely nothing to gain or lose in offering to plea a case, unless you are a Lawy student and are looking for pro-bono work experience.
Why not put the young impressionable person on the right path instead of trying to get her off?
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I'd limit what you had to say but I don't have the time to give to you.
Yes, I'd love to represent this young girl.
xoxo
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09-20-2017, 11:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nederlager
I'd limit what you had to say but I don't have the time to give to you.
Yes, I'd love to represent this young girl.
xoxo
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Time to reel up and check your bait.
You aren't catching anyone anymore.
Maybe try knitting.
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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09-21-2017, 12:41 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 464
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I hope the OP comes back and posts what the eventual penalty was. Doesn't seem like an overly seriously violation IMO, so I would expect a fine of maybe a couple hundred bucks, and perhaps suspension of fishing rights for a year or so.
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09-21-2017, 07:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
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Guessing the fishing without a licence part will yield a small fine and no suspension.
The misinformation part could get her in some hot water.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-21-2017, 07:50 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perdue SK
Posts: 1,570
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a pooched poacher
I'm betting that if we were discussing a foreigner or an person with swarthy skin then the tone would be completely different and there would be no forgiveness. Young women never appear on that radar screen.
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09-21-2017, 07:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nederlager
I'd limit what you had to say but I don't have the time to give to you.
Yes, I'd love to represent this young girl.
xoxo
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Misrepresent...fixed it for you...
She is better to sit, shut up, and don't play stupid...there is a song for this one..I fought the law and the law won...maybe she will just pay a fine and move on...attempt to make a mockery of this and might get the book thrown at ya!
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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09-21-2017, 08:42 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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I hope she simply gets a fine and gets to move on with her life. Fishing without a license doesn't even rank up there with a rolling stop at a stop sign, running a yellow light, or a minor speeding ticket in my opinion. Who among us has never commited a minor vehicle infraction? I mean really, kids don't need a license and neither do seniors and thousands of other people. I don't think we can blame the decline/collapse of fishing in AB on this young lady.
As for the charge of misleading or obstructing a conservation officer, it sounds more like an act of desperation by a silly panicking kid then the deliberate lies of a hardened criminal.
Peace officers are experts at asking questions that can confuse and trip up someone they are questioning. They are also experts at telling when someone is lying. It's a pity the young lady didn't simply get her no licence for fishing ticket, rather then dragging her friend into it and allowing the CO to have a smorgasboard of ticketing options. A person should always try to be co-operative and answer a CO's questions, but even though you are not under oath, if you simply give an incorrect answer or statement to a CO then they can now slam you with a ticket or court apperance.
I too would like to know how this all plays out in the end. I would be very surprised if it dosen't end up with a fine for both ladies and a perhaps a one year fishing ban. I'm hoping OP lets us know how it turns out.
I don't agree at all with some of you who would like to see the book thrown at her, for a minor offence and some silly story. I'm betting she has learned her lesson. Criminal Record? Jail Time? Really?
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09-21-2017, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nederlager
So many in today's society have twisted ideas of important things. I'd be happy to come and argue the case for her in front of the judge and tell him that society is over-regulated about nonsensical things. A fishing license for a young girl who is visiting. For sure, give her the electric chair!
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Also from Cochrane fishing headline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nederlager
Regulations are for morons.
Use the maggots. You will never be caught.
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Birds of a feather stick together. Nederlager... regulations aren't your cup of tea, they are not meant for you or whomever thinks that society is over-regulated about nonsensical things. Hope one day you will have your day in court and you can argue your case all you want. Maybe another lesson to learn.
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09-21-2017, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 74
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Just a bit more information for everyone. The young lady who used another person's license is only 19. She panicked when she saw the F & W officer. Her friend who has a valid license wasn't fishing at the time and foolishly thought since she wasn't fishing her friend could use her license. The assumption being that a valid license for the person fishing. Definitely a bad choice, but it was not made with any intent to obstruct.
I will most definitely follow up on this thread with the penalties received. They are both owning up to their mistake and the level of stupidity involved. But I really don't think either of them deserves to have the book thrown at them. Fines, and suspension for sure, but ultimately the intent was not to obstruct, simply one friend not fully understanding the license not applying to a person fishing but applies to the person who purchased it. (Again their fault for not fully understanding it).
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09-21-2017, 03:00 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 9,650
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She should explain to the judge that she purchased her licence after the fact to show she wants her $$ to go to conservation for her opps and fully expects her new licence to be suspended.
I would then bet that by showing great remorse, the judge will send her on her way with a talking too and a good fine for trying to pull a fast one.
I have seen F&W check everyone fishing at a popular river and when they caught a pretty young thing fishing without a licence, she played sad, batted her baby blues and said I'm sorry and got a warning and nothing else. The girl in question should have done the same. Sorry officer, I made a mistake and it would probably never had got this far.
From the sounds of the OP, I think she has already got the point of what she did wrong. She should pay some fine but I hope she don't get hit too hard for the mistake.
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09-21-2017, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner
She should explain to the judge that she purchased her licence after the fact to show she wants her $$ to go to conservation for her opps and fully expects her new licence to be suspended.
I would then bet that by showing great remorse, the judge will send her on her way with a talking too and a good fine for trying to pull a fast one.
I have seen F&W check everyone fishing at a popular river and when they caught a pretty young thing fishing without a licence, she played sad, batted her baby blues and said I'm sorry and got a warning and nothing else. The girl in question should have done the same. Sorry officer, I made a mistake and it would probably never had got this far.
From the sounds of the OP, I think she has already got the point of what she did wrong. She should pay some fine but I hope she don't get hit too hard for the mistake.
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Good points. Everyone makes mistakes. Heat of the moment that sort of thing. Other than buying a license after the fact I agree.
__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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09-21-2017, 06:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom55
I'm betting that if we were discussing a foreigner or an person with swarthy skin then the tone would be completely different and there would be no forgiveness. Young women never appear on that radar screen.
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Not much sympathy here on this forum for this young lady either. Her skin colour has not been disclosed, and is completely irrelevant
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09-21-2017, 09:34 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,615
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Nope. No sympathy. I got nailed when I was young fishing inside the boundary of a fish way and got my ass handed to me. That was over thirty years ago and still lost my gear and a fine and suspension. Very humbled that day dragging my parents and my cousins parents into court and the judge tore us a new you know what and I never messed with law since then. I had my license on me that day. Lesson learned. Smarten up.
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09-21-2017, 11:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFishingEDM
Just a bit more information for everyone. The young lady who used another person's license is only 19. She panicked when she saw the F & W officer. Her friend who has a valid license wasn't fishing at the time and foolishly thought since she wasn't fishing her friend could use her license.
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OK... so 19 years old??? Given that info, I don't see this going anywhere beyond a small fine, assuming it is their first violation. If I were the judge I probably wouldn't even give them a fine, just a stern warning. I know you are an adult at age 18 and are supposed to take full responsibility for everything at that age, but c'mon, the judge is probably 60 years old and he/she knows a 19 year-old doesn't see the world in the same way as older adults. This is going to end in a minor fine and a lesson learned.
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09-22-2017, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Beijing, Canada
Posts: 1,470
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I don't think she should go to jail, be flogged etc. I have thought that some of the responses on this thread thus far have been pretty harsh....however re:
She panicked when she saw the F & W officer. Her friend who has a valid license wasn't fishing at the time and foolishly thought since she wasn't fishing her friend could use her license. The assumption being that a valid license for the person fishing. Definitely a bad choice, but it was not made with any intent to obstruct.
This does not make sense.
Why would she panic if she thought she was allowed to use another person's license and that she was doing nothing wrong?
This is akin to assuming that you can use your friend's driver license if they are not driving the car?
This sounds to me like they have tried to come up with a defence strategy post transgression. If she is 19, she is not stupid and likely quite smart.
Does she even have a WIN card?
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09-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichaud
I don't think she should go to jail, be flogged etc. I have thought that some of the responses on this thread thus far have been pretty harsh....however re:
She panicked when she saw the F & W officer. Her friend who has a valid license wasn't fishing at the time and foolishly thought since she wasn't fishing her friend could use her license. The assumption being that a valid license for the person fishing. Definitely a bad choice, but it was not made with any intent to obstruct.
This does not make sense.
Why would she panic if she thought she was allowed to use another person's license and that she was doing nothing wrong?
This is akin to assuming that you can use your friend's driver license if they are not driving the car?
This sounds to me like they have tried to come up with a defence strategy post transgression. If she is 19, she is not stupid and likely quite smart.
Does she even have a WIN card?
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Just to clear up. the one without a license panicked, the one with the license assumed since she was not fishing the person fishing would be covered. I agree, not thinking clearly.
I explained to her already that had she just told them she didn't have a license it would have been a $57 fine on the spot and her day would have been done.
They both agree it was a stupid choice to be made and they are prepared for whatever the penalty handed out will be. The officer told them it was a criminal charge, which freaked them right out of course. I couldn't find anything stating it was a criminal charge based on the order to appear they were given.
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10-03-2017, 03:52 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Beijing, Canada
Posts: 1,470
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Any follow-up on this? What was the outcome?
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10-03-2017, 04:07 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichaud
Any follow-up on this? What was the outcome?
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Their court date isn't until Nov 20, 2017. So I will follow up with the results then.
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10-03-2017, 04:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Same thing should happen to her as the two metis that were charged for netting without a licence, throw the book at all three of them. What she did was worse than the metis, at least they didn't use another licence from another person.
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