Looking for information on PLC jobs! If you're in this industry, get at me!

[spoiledgoods]

Acquired an EET diploma recently. I've decided I want to specialize in PLCs, programming stuff, HMIs, etc... The competition for jobs right now is beyond crazy (in AB anyway) so I'm looking to other provinces for opportunities

Just looking to open a general dialogue or network, I'd love to know how I can make myself more employable so I can get my foot in the door in this industry. I finally found work in Calgary but it's definitely "dead-end" and in the meantime/between time I'd like to make gain more knowledge about the industry I want to break into.

I'm in a stage where I have no idea which direction to take, so I've started learning more programming languages such as HTML, SQL and VBScript, XML and JSON, etc. Ive heard that HTML 5 might be coming to HMIs in the near future so it might be beneficial to be ahead of the curve.

[Dick284]

Go get an apprenticeship as an electrician.

You'll get 2 years credit on your apprenticeship with your tech diploma.

[play.soccer]

After NWR and fort hills and the new outlet mall they've got nothing in AB. They are building a power plant in swift current though.

[bpoppa85]

Studio 5000, Factory Talk, Wonderware.

My background is mostly forest industry. Sawmills, OSB

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

After NWR and fort hills and the new outlet mall they've got nothing in AB. They are building a power plant in swift current though.

I don't think he is talking bout PCL the construction company, but PLC's
( computer stuff)
Cat

[play.soccer]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I don't think he is talking bout PCL the construction company, but PLC's
( computer stuff)
Cat

Oops dyslexia strikes again lol

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

Oops dyslexia strikes again lol

I figured the same thing when I saw it at first!
Cat

[berolak]

I'm a red seal Instrumentation Tech. working in AB. I don't want to discourage, but programming seems to be by far the most competitive sector. Everyone wants to program (myself included ) but the amount of jobs are limited, and it seems like with the shape of the economy places are looking to hire experienced programmers they don't have to spend training on.

It does sound like the Grande Prairie area is quite busy though, and some automation jobs up there. If I was looking for a programming job I would start up there. Hope that helps you.

[The Elkster]

Not part of the industry but curious how programing works in this context. I would have thought all or a lion's share of programing for instrumentation would happen at the manufacturing level and that any field level inputs would be a fairly simple function of a few pre-settings.

Trying to understand as I hear about the growth of programming all the time and everyone seems to be jumping in but I have no clue about the full implications of programming and where it may be required. I'd never be able to hack the tech field myself but still like understanding how it fits in the big scheme of things.

Thanks

[bpoppa85]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Not part of the industry but curious how programing works in this context. I would have thought all or a lion's share of programing for instrumentation would happen at the manufacturing level and that any field level inputs would be a fairly simple function of a few pre-settings.

Trying to understand as I hear about the growth of programming all the time and everyone seems to be jumping in but I have no clue about the full implications of programming and where it may be required. I'd never be able to hack the tech field myself but still like understanding how it fits in the big scheme of things.

Thanks

The PLC programming he is referring to is not taking the programming from a device standpoint but from a process standpoint. How do you take those field level inputs and use them to control whatever process you are using them within.

A simple example would be programming a float switch "input" to trigger an "output" that would be the starter for a pump.

[MyAlberta]

I agree that an electrical apprenticeship would be of value. It will put you where the trouble is, giving you an opportunity to demonstrate your skills. Although electrical is not logic,.. piping, pulling, and termination puts you in a good spot to commission, modify, dynamic tune, and maintain. In the bulk of situations, you will use packaged tools, so fluency with those tools is paramount. know your networking platforms. Consider that there is still plenty of Devicenet, Controlnet, RIO, Modbus, etc still in operation.

Good for you to expand your programming skills. Not sure if you'll use it on the HMI side, but every manager likes nicely formatted floor data. I use Python to interact with OPC to capture, store, and tabulate data. And who couldn't use a Linux based OPC?

Then there's embedded. How flexible can a device be?

You may also consider Building Automation Systems.

The field is vast. Just one caution, avoid getting sucked into the 'directionless' pit of programming. We only have so much time. Set objectives and seek help when required.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Not part of the industry but curious how programing works in this context. I would have thought all or a lion's share of programing for instrumentation would happen at the manufacturing level and that any field level inputs would be a fairly simple function of a few pre-settings.

Trying to understand as I hear about the growth of programming all the time and everyone seems to be jumping in but I have no clue about the full implications of programming and where it may be required. I'd never be able to hack the tech field myself but still like understanding how it fits in the big scheme of things.

Thanks

PLC (Programmable Logic Circuit) has replaced the old control rooms filled with clicking and clacking relays. The "programming" is done on site as you use the inputs from process in the field to automate things (they basically control a bunch of switches). The PLC's are cheeper, easier to install, faster, more reliable, and much smaller. You will find them on everything nowadays from an automatic band saw to amusement park rides, and refineries.

The whole "programing" is a pretty loose term when it comes to PLCs. It is just a graphical ladder logic circuit diagram that is most commonly used. The competition to get into this work is high as just about anybody can do it. So the guys already doing similar work (electricians, instrumentation techs) can fill the role fairly easily.

[mgvande]

Get indentured as an instrument tech and go from there. It will just happen organically.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsoqIylmDI

[Badgerbadger]

Maybe try Schneider Electric.

They have a few SCADA projects on the go, I think.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

PLC (Programmable Logic Circuit) has replaced the old control rooms filled with clicking and clacking relays. The "programming" is done on site as you use the inputs from process in the field to automate things (they basically control a bunch of switches). The PLC's are cheeper, easier to install, faster, more reliable, and much smaller. You will find them on everything nowadays from an automatic band saw to amusement park rides, and refineries.

The whole "programing" is a pretty loose term when it comes to PLCs. It is just a graphical ladder logic circuit diagram that is most commonly used. The competition to get into this work is high as just about anybody can do it. So the guys already doing similar work (electricians, instrumentation techs) can fill the role fairly easily.

Exacta panels come to mind...Running both Compressors and your local Carwash.

I'd be software engineers would get a kick out of all of us calling ladder logic guys programmers. I guess it is programming but so is setting up my universal remote. lol.

[Arty]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

[...].

The whole "programing" is a pretty loose term when it comes to PLCs. It is just a graphical ladder logic circuit diagram that is most commonly used. The competition to get into this work is high as just about anybody can do it. So the guys already doing similar work (electricians, instrumentation techs) can fill the role fairly easily.

Any script-monkey might be able to do it, but that ain't programming. Confusing what an electrician does vs what an instrumentation technologist does is bad enough. But then arbitrarily throwing the study and practice of logic systems into the mix is ridiculous.

Electrical engineering is not pulling cable or wiring panels and terminating conductors, any more than most electricians' work is designing substations and analyzing phase or power quality degradation affecting 1000 hp motors in a production plant. Neither are chemical process control function block diagrams with appropriate transfer functions, nor specifying instrumentation trim nor building IAS and tubing systems something an electrician will study or work on as a JM sparky.

So what makes people think that any character who can power up a laptop suddenly knows enough about logic systems and computer programming to produce purpose-built industrial code (regardless of the programming interface used)? That is a completely unique mental exercise requiring years of tough schooling including assembler programming in an academic environment and other software design approaches, followed by the nastiness of commercial work.

Sure, HR might like to advertise for a 8000-hour A380 airline pilot, additionally with a PhD and 10 years experience in turbine engine and aeronautics design, completion of a surgical residency in open-heart surgery together with experience in operating a nuclear power plant all in one guy; for an annual salary of $20,000.- You'll never see anything like that of course [yet], but they will try to pull off the same kind of shyte in industrial disciplines.

Unfortunately within the IT industry itself, the cheapening-down, commodization, off-shoring and outsourcing of 'labor' and common-use product has pretty much decimated the industry over the last 20 years. One of the results is the upswing in remote pay-for-services perversely called 'the cloud' as corporate doesn't want to deal with any IT concerns anymore. Another is the rampant proliferation of cheaply-made microsoft product, which has always been dumbed-down enough for the corporate bean-counter purchasing managers to understand. You get what you pay for, if you're lucky.

Programming properly, even microprocessors or controllers whether PLC or DCS, requires the same level of education and training as any other kind of profession or trade.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Exacta panels come to mind...Running both Compressors and your local Carwash.

I'd be software engineers would get a kick out of all of us calling ladder logic guys programmers. I guess it is programming but so is setting up my universal remote. lol.

A lot of time it comes down to solving a problem with the resources at hand, with the compiler / interpreter being the only real difference. The ladder toolkit is pretty sophisticated in say Controllogix, as are certain concepts such as motion profiling, OOP, machine state, etc. Managing networks, databases, security, safety,..... Some rightfully use it as a window, others as a tool to serve.

[Stinky Buffalo]

PM sent.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by Arty

Any script-monkey might be able to do it, but that ain't programming. Confusing what an electrician does vs what an instrumentation technologist does is bad enough. But then arbitrarily throwing the study and practice of logic systems into the mix is ridiculous.

Electrical engineering is not pulling cable or wiring panels and terminating conductors, any more than most electricians' work is designing substations and analyzing phase or power quality degradation affecting 1000 hp motors in a production plant. Neither are chemical process control function block diagrams with appropriate transfer functions, nor specifying instrumentation trim nor building IAS and tubing systems something an electrician will study or work on as a JM sparky.

So what makes people think that any character who can power up a laptop suddenly knows enough about logic systems and computer programming to produce purpose-built industrial code (regardless of the programming interface used)? That is a completely unique mental exercise requiring years of tough schooling including assembler programming in an academic environment and other software design approaches, followed by the nastiness of commercial work.

Sure, HR might like to advertise for a 8000-hour A380 airline pilot, additionally with a PhD and 10 years experience in turbine engine and aeronautics design, completion of a surgical residency in open-heart surgery together with experience in operating a nuclear power plant all in one guy; for an annual salary of $20,000.- You'll never see anything like that of course [yet], but they will try to pull off the same kind of shyte in industrial disciplines.

Unfortunately within the IT industry itself, the cheapening-down, commodization, off-shoring and outsourcing of 'labor' and common-use product has pretty much decimated the industry over the last 20 years. One of the results is the upswing in remote pay-for-services perversely called 'the cloud' as corporate doesn't want to deal with any IT concerns anymore. Another is the rampant proliferation of cheaply-made microsoft product, which has always been dumbed-down enough for the corporate bean-counter purchasing managers to understand. You get what you pay for, if you're lucky.

Programming properly, even microprocessors or controllers whether PLC or DCS, requires the same level of education and training as any other kind of profession or trade.

Yep.

I was lucky to have an uncle open the gate for me after the army.

Education is still key.

[ESOXangler]

Ever summer I run into grads wanting to be PLC experts. They designed a dishwasher in school and now they want to reprogram the BMS system on the boiler because they know better. Like it's been said before, get some type of industry experience first. It'll help you be a better programmer anyways.

Also send some time working for all the little scada outfits in Calgary. You'll gain some experience.

Cheers

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by Arty

[...]

So what makes people think that any character who can power up a laptop suddenly knows enough about logic systems and computer programming to produce purpose-built industrial code (regardless of the programming interface used)? That is a completely unique mental exercise requiring years of tough schooling including assembler programming in an academic environment and other software design approaches, followed by the nastiness of commercial work.

[...]

Unfortunately within the IT industry itself, the cheapening-down, commodization, off-shoring and outsourcing of 'labor' and common-use product has pretty much decimated the industry over the last 20 years. One of the results is the upswing in remote pay-for-services perversely called 'the cloud' as corporate doesn't want to deal with any IT concerns anymore. Another is the rampant proliferation of cheaply-made microsoft product, which has always been dumbed-down enough for the corporate bean-counter purchasing managers to understand. You get what you pay for, if you're lucky.

Programming properly, even microprocessors or controllers whether PLC or DCS, requires the same level of education and training as any other kind of profession or trade.

Because of the exact reasons you listed. The actual design work is done by a qualified Electrical Engineer. The tech will be the one actually in the field doing repairs. No Tech, or electrician is designing these systems only maintaining. I'm not trying to say that some Instrumentation Tech is taking over your Engineering job. The long and skinny is the tech doing maintenance does some basic stuff and that is something that like you said any script-monkey can do. If you want to put on your thinking cap and really do some programing/desgin work best to look at a degree. At the same time I'm not calling in an engineer because I need the clamp force changed on my band saw.

[DCse7en]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

Because of the exact reasons you listed. The actual design work is done by a qualified Electrical Engineer. The tech will be the one actually in the field doing repairs. No Tech, or electrician is designing these systems only maintaining. I'm not trying to say that some Instrumentation Tech is taking over your Engineering job. The long and skinny is the tech doing maintenance does some basic stuff and that is something that like you said any script-monkey can do. If you want to put on your thinking cap and really do some programing/desgin work best to look at a degree. At the same time I'm not calling in an engineer because I need the clamp force changed on my band saw.

Then your company isn't managing change very well....

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by DCse7en

Then your company isn't managing change very well....

I don't really understand what you are getting at here. Do you think I should be calling up an engineering firm to make simple changes?

The saw is a stand alone unit and does not effect any others downline. It was moved to a new process cutting different material. No I don't need it reengineered. All I needed was a slight change that nearly anybody can do takes 10min. It has been working without issue for over 5 years after the change. The change I required was far below the scope of an engineering firm well within what a tech can do.

[Fenix_84]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Maybe try Schneider Electric.

They have a few SCADA projects on the go, I think.

The Calgary office is basically a software/integration company. For the most part they don't program PLCs, they mainly designing drivers for them which is something entirely different, requires cpsc, electrical eng or software eng degree and tons of related experience.

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

Because of the exact reasons you listed. The actual design work is done by a qualified Electrical Engineer. The tech will be the one actually in the field doing repairs. No Tech, or electrician is designing these systems only maintaining. I'm not trying to say that some Instrumentation Tech is taking over your Engineering job. The long and skinny is the tech doing maintenance does some basic stuff and that is something that like you said any script-monkey can do. If you want to put on your thinking cap and really do some programing/desgin work best to look at a degree. At the same time I'm not calling in an engineer because I need the clamp force changed on my band saw.

You are right this is basically how all the big oil companies function, the field guys are generally techs with some trade school or just high school. There's not much programming done in the field. All the programming is done in the offices of automation companies, code is sent to site for someone (sometimes the engineer) to download, run and test.

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

The saw is a stand alone unit and does not effect any others downline. It was moved to a new process cutting different material. No I don't need it reengineered. All I needed was a slight change that nearly anybody can do takes 10min. It has been working without issue for over 5 years after the change. The change I required was far below the scope of an engineering firm well within what a tech can do.

This is also true, for the most part unless its completely brand new the code and logic has already been produced. 95% of the time the code is tweaked and reused, no one wants to pay to build/test something from scatch everytime especially when they have already paid for it. This isn't specific to PLCs, its pretty much programming in general.


OP, if you want to get into PLC programming to design new stuff get your P.Eng

If you want to do HMIs a degree would be best (cpsc, electrical eng, software eng), you don't need a degree to do the work cause its just basic programming but a degree will really help you get in the door, cause you will be competing against people with degrees.

If you want to be a field tech (performs minor logic changes, diagnose field issues) i'd first become an electrician.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

I don't really understand what you are getting at here. Do you think I should be calling up an engineering firm to make simple changes?

The saw is a stand alone unit and does not effect any others downline. It was moved to a new process cutting different material. No I don't need it reengineered. All I needed was a slight change that nearly anybody can do takes 10min. It has been working without issue for over 5 years after the change. The change I required was far below the scope of an engineering firm well within what a tech can do.

I am unsure of the change you had but


Most companies have a Management of Change program. This keeps all changes documented and policed by engineers. This way we don't go out changing things when we "think" it's the right thing to do. Helps keep the doors on the buildings ya know.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I am unsure of the change you had but


Most companies have a Management of Change program. This keeps all changes documented and policed by engineers. This way we don't go out changing things when we "think" it's the right thing to do. Helps keep the doors on the buildings ya know.

This is very true. This circumstance did not require anything more than a slight modification. Once the saw was replaced it was well and truly "discussed" as to what to do with it. This wasn't just me being a renagade changing things around, I assure you. It was to illustrate a point. Seems to have gone sideways, now questioning what I do at work for some reason.

There is a time you need a "smart guy" and times you need an actual smart guy. Just make sure you check with management before using the former.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

This is very true. This circumstance did not require anything more than a slight modification. Once the saw was replaced it was well and truly "discussed" as to what to do with it. This wasn't just me being a renagade changing things around, I assure you. It was to illustrate a point. Seems to have gone sideways, now questioning what I do at work for some reason.

There is a time you need a "smart guy" and times you need an actual smart guy. Just make sure you check with management before using the former.

No for sure your saw is a different story. One company I worked for had made changes without following management of change. Cost them 2.2 billion in a fire. That's a bit off from a saw in a machine shop without a doubt.

[MyAlberta]

http://www.indeed.ca/m/viewjob?jk=9e...0d98&from=serp

[Supergrit]

Get electrical apprenticeship and look for work in a saw mill way more up to date then most oil facilities and there alway changing to be more competive

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Get electrical apprenticeship and look for work in a saw mill way more up to date then most oil facilities and there alway changing to be more competive

Have to argue that. It's a pretty simple process in a saw mill.