Odd f&w encounter

[338Bluff]

I bought my first license in 1982. Have not missed a year since. AHEIA was formed in 1983 or 1984 and I remember taking the course in grade 10. Same instructor that taught typing taught hunter ed. Failed typing but got a 95% in Hunter Ed...but I digress. Not my problem that they lost their records on the conversion to digital.

On the typing deal my parents were not impressed but I told them that I was going to follow in the footsteps of Big Jim from Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. I did not see typing as a prerequisite for leaping out of helicopters onto caribou etc....

[270person]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Read the charges listed, yes they ask...and if you lie and get caught you get charged like the ones below.

Specifically: ineligible person apply/hold licenses



LC

As I read the regs providing proof of a hunter ED course is only mandatory for "first time hunters." Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading that anyone who has ever held an Alberta hunting license is exempt.

Also, I haven't read the page you show word for word but where does it say the accused refused to proof up a hunters ED certificate.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by 270person

As I read the regs providing proof of a hunter ED course is only mandatory for "first time hunters." Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading that anyone who has ever held an Alberta hunting license is exempt.

Also, I haven't read the page you show word for word but where does it say the accused refused to proof up a hunters ED certificate.

That's how I understood it, but doesn't explain the OP's original experience.

[FCLightning]

That whole record keeping thing with AHEIA .... I hadn't taught a course for a number of years and when I went to order materials they had no record I was an instructor. I had to retake the instructors course. Shortly after they sent me a plaque for 25 years of service. Go figure.
No idea where the original red card is, but if they come asking I do have my card from Sask. in 1972.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by 270person

As I read the regs providing proof of a hunter ED course is only mandatory for "first time hunters." Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading that anyone who has ever held an Alberta hunting license is exempt.

Also, I haven't read the page you show word for word but where does it say the accused refused to proof up a hunters ED certificate.

Proof of Hunters Ed has been mandatory for "first time hunters" since the mid 80's - not sure of the exact year, but if you are under 48 years of age or so, you must have taken the hunter ed course to hold a licence in Alberta (unless you are covered by the out-of-province exemptions).

[Dick284]

My wife took a first time hunters test at our local F&W office around 1992.
No hunters Ed, just a government administered test.

Where guys are getting in trouble is by checking too many of the boxes on their WIN Card application.
If you’ve held a licence prior to the drop dead date imposed, just check that box only.
If you check the Hunters Ed box they want to go and look for a certificate and number. And you’re screwed if you are like me and did it in 1977, when there’s no numbers, and no retained records(yes I went and asked)

The key here is the word “or” not “and”, not “and, or”.........

Just check one box to satisfy the paperwork nazi’s.

[Foonus]

Originally Posted by Jim

You said you were coyote hunting, since when do you need a hunting license or hunters Ed to hunt coyotes on private property? Half the farmers in the province probably don’t have hunters Ed and shoot coyotes all the time. You got played big time.

As to mention of vehicle search... here is the time for someone to call me wrong. As far as I understood it they can't and have no authority without RCMP or city(if you stuck in one) police being on location with them conducting it...but don't put it past them to detain you until they get there. Every time I have seen searches done by fish and game it is alongside RCMP in a road stop, and they work the RCMP check stop route to get into your vehicle legally.
Fish and game cant go into your truck to check for fish without a law enforcement present to do it and I am pretty sure its same for game. If I'm wrong here someone show us the papers to educate us please.
That said if you got something in there you shouldn't you'll get your dues sooner or later. -.-

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Foonus

As to mention of vehicle search... here is the time for someone to call me wrong. As far as I understood it they can't and have no authority without RCMP or city(if you stuck in one) police being on location with them conducting it... Every time I have seen searches done by fish and game it is alongside RCMP in a road stop, and they work the RCMP check stop route to get into your vehicle legally.
Fish and game cant go into your truck to check for fish without a law enforcement present to do it and I am pretty sure its same for game. If I'm wrong here someone show us the papers to educate us please.
That said if you got something in there you shouldn't BOHICA sooner or later. -.-

Since RCMP, F&W, Sheriff’s, and many others all are part of the Solicitor General’s department, they all carry the same powers, it’s been that way for a handful of years now.

[Foonus]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Since RCMP, F&W, Sheriff’s, and many others all are part of the Solicitor General’s department, they all carry the same powers, it’s been that way for a handful of years now.

Really? In Alberta here I have never seen them go into peoples vehicles on the lake maybe that's just good folk, dunno. they Kick around the tires a bit and look in your bucket seat if you got something stashed in there but they never do go in the vehicles. Figured they weren't allowed unless they seen you do something stupid since was always police with them when they did the joint checkstops I have seen.

[raw outdoors]

Originally Posted by Hunter_spec

He was nice enough to not take the deer, he said he could of confiscated the deer.

For the most part they say they can do things like confiscate a deer or give you a ticket for something, but when they don’t it’s really just because they know the really cant. Threatening you that they could do this or that is just a way for them to assert dominance and you submit.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Foonus

Really? In Alberta here I have never seen them go into peoples vehicles on the lake maybe that's just good folk, dunno. they Kick around the tires a bit and look in your bucket seat if you got something stashed in there but they never do go in the vehicles. Figured they weren't allowed unless they seen you do something stupid since was always police with them when they did the joint checkstops I have seen.

The games have changed. In conversations with our local F&W officer(old boy) and an OH&S officer(another old boy) they both said that the drive to create revenue through fines and tickets has been requested by the upper management types. It’s no longer about educating, it’s all about making the government money.
And the new wonder boys hitting the streets it is all about keeping their bosses happy.
And F&W have always had greater stroke in search and seizure, the minute they believe you’ve been hunting of fishing they have not only their foot in the door, but most of their left hip too. Why do you think their first question often is, “have you been hunting?”
Joint check stops are about public perception more than enforcement. RCMP have breathalizers F&W don’t, that’s why the Mounties are their.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Well, as I never took it hopefully I'm never asked for it

Me too....just bounced from province to province work related then overseas etc and when I needed a tag etc I just purchased it.....oh well I would just soark up a conversation with the Fish cop....how about those leaf's

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

My wife took a first time hunters test at our local F&W office around 1992.
No hunters Ed, just a government administered test.

Where guys are getting in trouble is by checking too many of the boxes on their WIN Card application.
If you’ve held a licence prior to the drop dead date imposed, just check that box only.
If you check the Hunters Ed box they want to go and look for a certificate and number. And you’re screwed if you are like me and did it in 1977, when there’s no numbers, and no retained records(yes I went and asked)

The key here is the word “or” not “and”, not “and, or”.........

Just check one box to satisfy the paperwork nazi’s.

Now you know people don't read the regs etc......that's why the forum is here.

[Pioneer2]

A buddy and his daughter were on their way to a hunting spot early enough it was still dark on a icy fair weather road. A wt F+W truck is parked half blocking the road barely visible in the dark and it's snowing.When they almost hit it out jumps superman right in front of their truck lights a flashing.He damned near got ran over.The F+W was rude, demanding ,where are you going,what are you doing here? etc Any firearms in the vehicle.When my buddy said he and his daughter were going hunting he was ignored as superman was busy checking the cased guns.Where is this idiot from ...the East?He accused my buddy of going hunting which Capt.obvious had already been informed of.So our hero purposely delayed them until first light messing up the last day of season for them.Little did he know the conversation was recorded on his daughter's cell phone.His parting comments were "too bad about your morning you should have got up a 1/2hr earlier". I would have been down at the office Monday morning. What a jerk.Pine Lake area.

[MathewsArcher]

Thought this might be of interest since there seems to be a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding of the powers that an officer has. Lots more interesting authority is granted under the Wildlife Act and it is definitely worth a read.


Entry on and the passing over of land
66(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without a
warrant, enter on and pass over any land while lawfully engaged in
the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions
given him or her by, or that otherwise relate to the enforcement of,
this Act, including those implied by section 65.

Search, etc., without warrant
71(1) If distance, urgency, the imminent danger of the loss,
removal, destruction or disappearance of evidence or other relevant
factors do not reasonably permit the obtaining of a warrant, a
wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without obtaining a
warrant,
(a) enter into and search any premises or a place, vehicle,
aircraft, boat or a building, tent or other structure,
(a.1) search any land lawfully entered on under section 66, or
(b) search any container, including a pack, or any
pack-animal,
if the officer or guardian believes on reasonable and probable
grounds that there is in or on it any evidence of an offence against
this Act.

Inspection of weapons, ammunition and projectiles
70(1) If a weapon, ammunition or projectile or any part of it
(a) is in or on a vehicle, aircraft or boat or is being
transported on an animal or by a person who is on foot,
and
(b) is in plain view of a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian,
the officer or guardian may require the person who is or who
appears to be in possession of that weapon or other thing to
produce it for the purpose of inspection to determine whether it is
there in circumstances constituting a danger to public safety or
whether or not it is possessed in accordance with this Act.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Foonus

As to mention of vehicle search... here is the time for someone to call me wrong. As far as I understood it they can't and have no authority without RCMP or city(if you stuck in one) police being on location with them conducting it...but don't put it past them to detain you until they get there. Every time I have seen searches done by fish and game it is alongside RCMP in a road stop, and they work the RCMP check stop route to get into your vehicle legally.
Fish and game cant go into your truck to check for fish without a law enforcement present to do it and I am pretty sure its same for game. If I'm wrong here someone show us the papers to educate us please.
That said if you got something in there you shouldn't you'll get your dues sooner or later. -.-

You are so wrong it isn't even possible to enumerate all the things you are wrong about. Long and short, Fish and Wildlife has far wider search without warrant abilities under the Wildlife Act than the RCMP do under the legislation that covers them. Go read the act sometime and educate yourself so you don't get in trouble for not knowing what your actual rights are.

[jcrayford]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

What are the rules for the grandfathering ? I had a hunting licence in Ontario then moved here in 03, I applied for my alberta win in 04 and they checked me out and gave it to me with no issues. I have applied for and drawn and purchased OTC tags every season since. I have never taken the course in alberta. I never have it any thought until reading this thread but I sure don't want the charges/ hassle. If I need the course I guess is better get on it. No idea what my Ontario #was.

Whoa whoa whoa.... Relax there big guy....

And I quote directly from the AB hunting regulations:

REQUIREMENTS

Wildlife Identification Number (WiN)
Hunters and anglers in Alberta must possess a 10-digit Wildlife Identification Number (WiN) to apply for draws, purchase wildlife certificates, licences and replacements.

Please keep your information up to date; address changes can be made online or at an issuer.

Wildlife Certificate
Hunters must possess a valid Wildlife Certificate and the applicable hunting licence to hunt big game or game birds. Licences and applicable tags must be carried on their person while hunting.
Licensing requirements for first-time hunters
NOTE: all new first-time hunters who have qualified for obtaining recreational hunting licences by successfully completing the Alberta Conservation and Hunter education course, will be required to provide on their WiN profile, their hunter certificate number that is issued to each course graduate, in order to be eligible to purchase a hunting licence.

A first-time hunter is a hunter who 1) has not previously held a hunting licence in Alberta or elsewhere, or 2) has not prior to April 1, 2010, met Alberta first-time hunter criteria, or 3) has not successfully completed a hunter education course in Alberta or elsewhere.

Non-resident and non-resident alien hunters (12 years of age or older) are exempt from the first-time hunter eligibility requirement if they are accompanied by a Hunter Host or a Designated Guide while hunting in Alberta.

After reading all the posts in this thread until now, I really thought about going to AHEIA to get an updated course for myself as I took it over 35 years ago. But then I've also been purchasing hunting licenses for over the past 35 years as well.

The excerpt that I've highlighted above tells me that I know longer have to worry about getting that updated course, and that if asked by a F&W CO i will be cordial and clearly state that I've been hunting since well before 2010 and am not a first-time hunter (requiring said proof of hunter ed course).

I know that the CO's have an extremely tough job and I'm more than willing to cooperate completely, but there's no need to have an additional piece of paper to satisfy the curiosity of another arm of the government, when the government clearly states otherwise.

J.

[270person]

Originally Posted by jcrayford

Whoa whoa whoa.... Relax there big guy....

And I quote directly from the AB hunting regulations:



After reading all the posts in this thread until now, I really thought about going to AHEIA to get an updated course for myself as I took it over 35 years ago. But then I've also been purchasing hunting licenses for over the past 35 years as well.

The excerpt that I've highlighted above tells me that I know longer have to worry about getting that updated course, and that if asked by a F&W CO i will be cordial and clearly state that I've been hunting since well before 2010 and am not a first-time hunter (requiring said proof of hunter ed course).

I know that the CO's have an extremely tough job and I'm more than willing to cooperate completely, but there's no need to have an additional piece of paper to satisfy the curiosity of another arm of the government, when the government clearly states otherwise.

J.

There you go. I'm on the same track I stated last night. Highlighting the " first" paragraph would seem to be more apropos. It states the requirement to purchase tags or enter draws is simply a WIN number.

The below caveats, re the hunter education course pertain to FIRST time hunters only. Like to see the charges stick in court when the regs seem to state otherwise.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 270person

As I read the regs providing proof of a hunter ED course is only mandatory for "first time hunters." Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading that anyone who has ever held an Alberta hunting license is exempt.

Also, I haven't read the page you show word for word but where does it say the accused refused to proof up a hunters ED certificate.

Yes, they were never “eligible hunters” because they never met the requirements to be eligible in Alberta.

LC

[beaver hunter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Yup and if you transport a set of antlers that aren’t yours...you need the same piece of paper.

LC

So for the harvested deer you need a transport form filled out when the person is in the same vehicle as you???? That makes no sense and is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by beaver hunter

So for the harvested deer you need a transport form filled out when the person is in the same vehicle as you???? That makes no sense and is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

No...never mentioned or said that but if you take a buddies anters to a taxidermist for him you need a bill of lading.

LC

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by beaver hunter

So for the harvested deer you need a transport form filled out when the person is in the same vehicle as you???? That makes no sense and is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

The bill of lading is for if the person isn’t in the vehicle, like if they are hunting elsewhere, or in another vehicle.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by beaver hunter

So for the harvested deer you need a transport form filled out when the person is in the same vehicle as you???? That makes no sense and is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

You are dead on correct and if it was fought it would have been tossed immediately. The law simply does not read that way. I can only assume it wasn't contested because it was only 30 bucks and didn't result in a suspension of hunting rights. Doesn't make it right and I hate to see the Fish Cops get away with this kind of bullying so I would have fought it, but I have lots of free Time and generally refuse to let anyone mess with me. Been told I have a bad attitude, but generally from those that lost the arguement.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by 270person

As I read the regs providing proof of a hunter ED course is only mandatory for "first time hunters." Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading that anyone who has ever held an Alberta hunting license is exempt.

Also, I haven't read the page you show word for word but where does it say the accused refused to proof up a hunters ED certificate.

Yes I believe you are correct.

[Skoaltender]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

That's how I understood it, but doesn't explain the OP's original experience.

So. His very first question was how many years have I held a hunting license.
I said roughly 10 years. Then he proceeded to ask for proof of hunters Ed.

[marlin1]

hunters ed ? I took a course in grade 10 . never been asked but Im old grey hair is good sometimes . my how times have changed

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by ramonmark

I'm only 35 and I took mine when I was 14. A couple years ago I purchased a guided pig hunt in Hawaii and the state needed my certificate. I couldn't locate it, contacted fish and wildlife, they sent me to aheia. Aheia couldn't find it, supposedly it was lost when paper went digital. Long story short I retook the course as a 34 year old. The guide didn't refund me but they did allow me to hold the hunt for another time.

I took mine in 1976 in Manitoba and they still had records of it.

[Hunter_spec]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The bill of lading is for if the person isn’t in the vehicle, like if they are hunting elsewhere, or in another vehicle.

Or if you have to pick your wife on the other side of the field lol.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Hunter_spec

Or if you have to pick your wife on the other side of the field lol.

If you dont it will cost ya....soon to be ex ....

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

I took mine in 1976 in Manitoba and they still had records of it.

YES just called yesterday $30 for a copy though ,took mine in 1975 in Manitoba