Mandatory Harvest Reporting

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by muirsy

Agreed! The number of people in the entire province who would spend the time to incorrectly submit information would be statistically insignificant. It's maybe the worst excuse for not filling them out.

Just fill the damn thing out, it benefits all of us in the end.

The quickest way to fill out the reports, is to simply check off the option that you didn't hunt, and some people will do that. As to the benefit, if only licensed hunters fill out the reports, any benefits are questionable.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by muirsy

Agreed! The number of people in the entire province who would spend the time to incorrectly submit information would be statistically insignificant. It's maybe the worst excuse for not filling them out.

Just fill the damn thing out, it benefits all of us in the end.

Another assumption^^^ that somehow the gvt has the best interests of gun toting red necks like all of us, in mind.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist! I never lean that way. But let’s just think about this for a moment! How do you know the data collection isn’t to slowly shut us down with skewed numbers? That’s why I’m calling for better, more accurate and accountable reports. It’s not that much to ask for!

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Another assumption^^^ that somehow the gvt has the best interests of gun toting red necks like all of us, in mind.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist! I never lean that way. But let’s just think about this for a moment! How do you know the data collection isn’t to slowly shut us down with skewed numbers? That’s why I’m calling for better, more accurate and accountable reports. It’s not that much to ask for!

Agreed, if they want people to honestly fill out the reports then honestly show us the data results and purpose with us wildlife stakeholders. If information deficiencies are present, then we as hunters can address them with our wildlife managers to better the data collection process.....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by muirsy

Agreed! The number of people in the entire province who would spend the time to incorrectly submit information would be statistically insignificant. It's maybe the worst excuse for not filling them out.

Just fill the damn thing out, it benefits all of us in the end.

how does this benefit us when certain hunters can literally slaughter the population with no consequences other than its their rights....my little ol'buck added to a survey is only going to give them just that....a few out of thousands not accounted for so that being said it gives false information that will mislead thus leading back to bad decisions on tags, quotas etc....I would sooner sit here and squabble...

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

how does this benefit us when certain hunters can literally slaughter the population with no consequences other than its their rights....my little ol'buck added to a survey is only going to give them just that....a few out of thousands not accounted for so that being said it gives false information that will mislead thus leading back to bad decisions on tags, quotas etc....I would sooner sit here and squabble...

Ok here’s where I balance my view.

PROPER surveys would definitely benefit the resource- even though the fn harvest is not recorded. It would give the majority of the harvest picture and data (over years long periods) to accurately depict trends of populations and where everything was at. Yes the unknown sucks and that should change. It likely won’t. But the licensed hunters heavily outnumber the unlicensed ones. That data is crucial. It is far better than no data or in this case, messed up, inaccurate data.
Proper reports are vital. If the accountability is there!

[shedcrazy]

Another thread a person loses brain cells reading!

OP,

1) As a wildlife manager if I got that email I would have deleted it after the first sentence. It's an awful written rant.

2) The title of the survey tells you what it is. it's a HARVEST survey. They want to know if you harvested or not. It's not a citizen science population survey or it would have stated that. I know reading is hard for lots but it's all about your HARVEST.

3) The other info is used for mostly social economic issues. I have used hunt days to keep a hunt going in the past due to the economic side.

4) Most wildlife managers really don't care about what you saw on your walk in the forest and what valuable or not valuable citizen science you think you have.

5) It's just one of the many tools used. Due to it being citizen science it's not used as a primary tool in most cases.

6) Hunters are generally a poor indicator of populations. I have based that on being a hunter, talking to hunters and getting 15 days of feedback for 18yrs. No hunter sees the same thing, hunts for the same reason or thinks the same way.

7) Most species populations are based on aerial surveys with modelling in between. Not your walk in the forest, what you saw on your bait or what you consider a shooter or not a shooter.

8) It would takes months to try and put together all the data you think is needed in a HARVEST form besides the did you harvest or not question. With all the cutbacks coming to staff and budgets I am sure just the simple forms will take enough time let alone all the written in feedback.

Relax, fill it out or not.

S

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Another thread a person loses brain cells reading!

OP,

1) As a wildlife manager if I got that email I would have deleted it after the first sentence. It's an awful written rant.

2) The title of the survey tells you what it is. it's a HARVEST survey. They want to know if you harvested or not. It's not a citizen science population survey or it would have stated that. I know reading is hard for lots but it's all about your HARVEST.

3) The other info is used for mostly social economic issues. I have used hunt days to keep a hunt going in the past due to the economic side.

4) Most wildlife managers really don't care about what you saw on your walk in the forest and what valuable or not valuable citizen science you think you have.

5) It's just one of the many tools used. Due to it being citizen science it's not used as a primary tool in most cases.

6) Hunters are generally a poor indicator of populations. I have based that on being a hunter, talking to hunters and getting 15 days of feedback for 18yrs. No hunter sees the same thing, hunts for the same reason or thinks the same way.

7) Most species populations are based on aerial surveys with modelling in between. Not your walk in the forest, what you saw on your bait or what you consider a shooter or not a shooter.

8) It would takes months to try and put together all the data you think is needed in a HARVEST form besides the did you harvest or not question. With all the cutbacks coming to staff and budgets I am sure just the simple forms will take enough time let alone all the written in feedback.

Relax, fill it out or not.

S

The irony of your "awful written rant" gave me a chuckle, Thanks. I would have read it in great detail but I deleted it after the first sentence.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

The irony of your "awful written rant" gave me a chuckle, Thanks. I would have read it in great detail but I deleted it after the first sentence.

Except his rant had substance and was factual

LC

[kritz]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Hey all,
I thought I would share with you my feedback on the Alberta Relm website. You can click the "contact us" link once signed in and offer your feedback as well if you desire.

I used to think that these reports were good- and in reality they are solid gold, if done correctly. I laid out my concerns via said comment section and hope it has a good effect. Here is what I wrote. Tear me apart if you like, but these are my concerns:

Harvest Reports

These mandatory harvest reports are a huge waste of time and offer you folks very useless, skewed information. What on earth does hunting experience quantify? Who really cares? I could have shot huge animals and had a poor hunt. I could have had an amazing hunt and shot nothing. What a ridiculous question! And asking about how many days afield and if I was successful in harvesting shows you absolutely sweet nothing!!! I hunt a certain species where I have dozens of opportunity to kill an animal and pass on them for one reason or another. How are your survey questions indicative of game numbers in a certain zone? It's completely bogus.

Ok, so I am a solutions guy. At the very least- consider adding a comments section so we can at least specify our experience. I reported not harvesting a general whitetail this year. Truth be told I had (usually multiple) chances every day I hunted to fill that tag. I chose not to. By asking how many legally harvest-able animals we observed would be way better data than you are currently asking for. Which all leads me to believe these reports are a waste of everyone's time and Government resources to extrapolate.
Furthermore, I demand to know how this data is interpreted currently. You folks have not been releasing that information and that is very concerning. We are stakeholders TOGETHER. You, as civil servants should be doing your level best to provide us hunters with the best possible experiences.
Thanks for your time.
Tyler


I understand native harvest and residency discussions. Those are key conversations. However if we can simply limit this to the current harvest reports and how we can work towards change, that would be appreciated.

I welcome your feedback and discussion. Let US be the vocal minority for once!!!!!

Don't do a simple questionnaire, Don't get a license next year, Better for the rest of us poor suckers waiting 9+ years to get a draw.
I agree with a few on here that it will get better, It does require some follow up of ask the question and publish the data received. People complain about hunting pressure, lack of animals, wait times and the list goes on, hopefully this is a start to getting those answers. We asked, they started something to support us, you can be as honest or dishonest and answer however you like on here and skew the results, Then see the decisions made for Alberta hunting.
JMO

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Ok here’s where I balance my view.

PROPER surveys would definitely benefit the resource- even though the fn harvest is not recorded. It would give the majority of the harvest picture and data (over years long periods) to accurately depict trends of populations and where everything was at. Yes the unknown sucks and that should change. It likely won’t. But the licensed hunters heavily outnumber the unlicensed ones. That data is crucial. It is far better than no data or in this case, messed up, inaccurate data.
Proper reports are vital. If the accountability is there!

ok so I fill out the report say one buck.....FN or Metis hunter takes a moose or two, a deer or two.....no license required nor the responsibility or obligation to report anything...the survey is just that...not worth the paper it was written on nor the time to enter/collect data....accountability has to be for all who hunt.

[Dick284]

Easy does it Shane.
The arm chair biologists will always be the experts.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Except his rant had substance and was factual

LC

So you agreed with some points in my rant earlier and now changed your mind? What was factual? I see zero facts, much less a source of those facts presented on how this data is interpreted. That's all I'm asking for!

All I see is guys constantly surmising that this survey will benefit us with zero questions asked. I want some accountability and people are jumping down my throat for that. The funny thing is most guys on here are Right leaning and question the government at every turn. But this survey is magically in our best interests?!



Accusations of arm chair biology guys? Gimme a break. I want some accountability. I'm said 3 times now that the survey is a good idea if done with transparency.

My goal of my OP was to get people to start asking some deeper questions. I don't have all (heck maybe not ANY) answers. But holding our civil servants accountable to gain a better net experience in the field was my motive and I will stand by that. Flame away folks. I'm done

[Lefty-Canuck]

No... I said you brought up some points but your tone wouldn’t make it past the first few sentences. It was a rant...plain and simple that would likely have no consideration from the reader.

When you start like this....

“Harvest Reports

These mandatory harvest reports are a huge waste of time and offer you folks very useless, skewed information. What on earth does hunting experience quantify? Who really cares?”

How is what I stated wrong?

I would add one simple question to the survey, “Did you have an opportunity to fill your tag but you chose not to” Yes or No.

LC

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

So you agreed with some points in my rant earlier and now changed your mind? What was factual? I see zero facts, much less a source of those facts presented on how this data is interpreted. That's all I'm asking for!

All I see is guys constantly surmising that this survey will benefit us with zero questions asked. I want some accountability and people are jumping down my throat for that. The funny thing is most guys on here are Right leaning and question the government at every turn. But this survey is magically in our best interests?!



Accusations of arm chair biology guys? Gimme a break. I want some accountability. I'm said 3 times now that the survey is a good idea if done with transparency.

My goal of my OP was to get people to start asking some deeper questions. I don't have all (heck maybe not ANY) answers. But holding our civil servants accountable to gain a better net experience in the field was my motive and I will stand by that. Flame away folks. I'm done

Wow, just a tad touchy. “Deerpression” setting in?

Instead of whining and moaning on a chat forum, why aren’t you up in Minister Nixon’s grill over this? Maybe going to the top dog, and engaging in a meaningful discourse might satisfy what’s up your chute.

[58thecat]

"deerpression" setting in sooo gonna get a peperoni stick and sit back and watch the deer eat out of my bird feeders....-28 out...too cold for yotes for me.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Wow, just a tad touchy. “Deerpression” setting in?

Instead of whining and moaning on a chat forum, why aren’t you up in Minister Nixon’s grill over this? Maybe going to the top dog, and engaging in a meaningful discourse might satisfy what’s up your chute.

Ok I had to laugh at that. Thanks

But seriously the whole point of discussion is to flesh it out and build perspective. I thought like minded people would want the same things I do. I was dead wrong.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

No... I said you brought up some points but your tone wouldn’t make it past the first few sentences. It was a rant...plain and simple that would likely have no consideration from the reader.

When you start like this....

“Harvest Reports

These mandatory harvest reports are a huge waste of time and offer you folks very useless, skewed information. What on earth does hunting experience quantify? Who really cares?”

How is what I stated wrong?

I would add one simple question to the survey, “Did you have an opportunity to fill your tag but you chose not to” Yes or No.

LC

I already validated your response and agreed with my poor approach. To borrow Twisted Canucks thoughts- a rant by definition did not include much forethought.
I will stand behind the points I made though. I care about management. I don't like the blind submission. However, I suppose a forum full of outdoorsmen was the wrong platform to start discussion about it for whatever reason.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I already validated your response and agreed with my poor approach. To borrow Twisted Canucks thoughts- a rant by definition did not include much forethought.
I will stand behind the points I made though. I care about management. I don't like the blind submission. However, I suppose a forum full of outdoorsmen was the wrong platform to start discussion about it for whatever reason.

When everyone one else is wrong by your own definition then I think you need to look in the mirror.

I am sicked by so called outdoorsmen that will lie, fudge, or out right refuse to fill out a very easy harvest report honestly because they don't, or can't, understand how that survey will be used. It is one tool, and not the primary tool, that can be used to garner information. I think in my first post I showed what information could be gleamed out of the survey.

Yet you double down on the whining without substance or alternates. Reminds me of the saying "Can't see the forest through the trees"

You can't admit that maybe there is some useful information to be gathered by asking THOUSANDS of HUNTERS about their HARVEST success and DAYS hunting.

Again, one opinion is useless.........thousands show trends.

And yes Cat there is a hole in it if FN don't fill out a survey, doesn't make it useless or reason not to fill it out correctly.

[58thecat]

it is not useless as in it gathers inaccurate data as in completely missing a huge population of hunters in Alberta that can literally harvest game with no accountability.....I guess it gathers the others data...oh well it is the sign of the times.

[last minute]

If the Provence had mandatory check-in stations all around the province after a Kill you would have a mandatory harvest report as the season progresses and ends.

If your caught not checking in your game you should pay a big fine. Just a thought

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

it is not useless as in it gathers inaccurate data as in completely missing a huge population of hunters in Alberta that can literally harvest game with no accountability.....I guess it gathers the others data...oh well it is the sign of the times.

Doesn't mean the information gathered is worth any less. Just because you have a bee in your bonnet about FN hunters, don't take it out on the game managers that have no say in that.

Just fill out the darn survey and work towards having the Feds look after their responsibilities when it comes to FN peoples.

[kritz]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

it is not useless as in it gathers inaccurate data as in completely missing a huge population of hunters in Alberta that can literally harvest game with no accountability.....I guess it gathers the others data...oh well it is the sign of the times.

Yes you are right, But This is not the reason to not do your part and fill out the information required to from what was asked for by the bigger population of hunters. Dealing with pressure, longer wait times etc. Is there more information required to provide better decisions, yes. If they threw a 10 page real detailed survey to you would you fill it out? probably be right back here on this forum.

You have stated two other problems that do require a fix but that is not what the focus of the survey is. As mentioned in the past, take your concern about the "huge population" to the minister. And do YOUR best to provide accurate information on your hunting experience in the survey. Change will happen whether you like it or not and best we provide the most accurate information to help that change occur in our best interest. We ask them to make changes based on accurate data, well, they are working on trying to get accurate data from the licensed hunters. problem 1, then problem 2 and 3 as you stated.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by last minute

If the Provence had mandatory check-in stations all around the province after a Kill you would have a mandatory harvest report as the season progresses and ends.

If your caught not checking in your game you should pay a big fine. Just a thought

So we should add even more costs to an already too small budget, to pay people to check in game animals all over Alberta?

[last minute]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So we should add even more costs to an already too small budget, to pay people to check in game animals all over Alberta?

Yes what's a few more bucks we have to pay to play anyway and those that don't want to report their game will have to or pay the price I don't see a problem

[wildwoods]

Where did this turn into people not filling it out accurately?! I filled mine out truthfully. You would have to be a complete tool to lie on your harvest report.

This is about transparency in how this data translates into opportunity. The same people jumping on me for my transparency rant are most likely the same people who were choked about: Castle closures, Bighorn access fiasco, walleye draws etc.... the list could go on and on. Since when is it a bad thing to require a higher standard of accountability? Or do we just assume ESRD has our best interests in mind while areas close and opportunity shrinks. Good grief!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by kritz

Yes you are right, But This is not the reason to not do your part and fill out the information required to from what was asked for by the bigger population of hunters. Dealing with pressure, longer wait times etc. Is there more information required to provide better decisions, yes. If they threw a 10 page real detailed survey to you would you fill it out? probably be right back here on this forum.

You have stated two other problems that do require a fix but that is not what the focus of the survey is. As mentioned in the past, take your concern about the "huge population" to the minister. And do YOUR best to provide accurate information on your hunting experience in the survey. Change will happen whether you like it or not and best we provide the most accurate information to help that change occur in our best interest. We ask them to make changes based on accurate data, well, they are working on trying to get accurate data from the licensed hunters. problem 1, then problem 2 and 3 as you stated.

Roger that...did my survey when it first popped up in my email....just seems like a waste cuz the data is missing input from others...oh well guess you gotta work with whats provided.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Doesn't mean the information gathered is worth any less. Just because you have a bee in your bonnet about FN hunters, don't take it out on the game managers that have no say in that.

Just fill out the darn survey and work towards having the Feds look after their responsibilities when it comes to FN peoples.

I will always have a so called bee in my bonnet when not being treated equally that's just that....I know and respect those who have a job to do but even within their own offices I be they are banging their heads off their desks....I would because I am asked to gather information for the betterment of the industry and I know it will be not entirely accurate....frustrating for all.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by last minute

If the Provence had mandatory check-in stations all around the province after a Kill you would have a mandatory harvest report as the season progresses and ends.

If your caught not checking in your game you should pay a big fine. Just a thought

This is what I like and support which must apply to all hunters....real easy like.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by last minute

Yes what's a few more bucks we have to pay to play anyway and those that don't want to report their game will have to or pay the price I don't see a problem

Not just a few more bucks, to set up check stations all across Alberta. And unless all hunters regulated and non regulated are required to register their game, the money would be wasted, because the information would be incomplete, and therefore would not be accurate. Spending money to set up registration stations for harvested game animals, makes about as much sense as bringing back the long gun registry. If more money is to be spent, spend it putting more officers in the field, to deal with poachers.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not just a few more bucks, to set up check stations all across Alberta. And unless all hunters regulated and non regulated are required to register their game, the money would be wasted, because the information would be incomplete, and therefore would not be accurate. Spending money to set up registration stations for harvested game animals, makes about as much sense as bringing back the long gun registry. If more money is to be spent, spend it putting more officers in the field, to deal with poachers.

X2, rural folks are not gonna drive miles to register an animal they harvested behind the house. Logistically check stations won’t work and won’t be completed by a large portion of hunters IMO. It’s similar to a large number of animals being harvested every year in this province that won’t be identified in this current survey system...