Backcountry JIC firearm

[deerfarmer]

Looking for opinions on a just in case kind of firearm to go along with my bear spray when I'm out solo archery hunting/camping in cat/bear country. I generally always have my pack on and would like something I could strap on the side or back.

Few ideas I'm tossing around:

- 12 gauge pump chopped to 18.5
- Tikka battue or other short barrel rifle
- Mares leg of some kind in 44mag

I'm curious about the shoot-ability of the mares leg as well as a shotgun outfitted with a pistol grip. These look really awkward to shoot and I'm wondering just how easy it would be to actually hit anything.

Thoughts? What are you using?

[Dweb]

Pump with magnum slugs is hard to beat.

[crazy_davey]

Shotguns are for the birds...

[lyallpeder]

A 18.5 inch shotgun with a full regular stock that you have put lots of target load through to break it in and lots of slugs and buck to make sure it cycles them.

[deerfarmer]

Thanks for the feedback, was kind of leaning shotgun way already so it's good to hear I'm not far off base.

[6.5 shooter]

Don't forget your 12" Bowie cause if he gets through the first two it is your last line of defense...and go for the belly.

[Groundhogger]

I live far, far away from grizzly country...but have had sketchy encounters with black bears both in Alberta, and Ontario. However, I've never had to use a firearm to defend myself. (might have in that Alberta situation if I had it with me)

I honestly think for the weight/price~you'd be hard-pressed to beat a 12ga pump gun. Nothing "chopped" required, you can buy 12ga guns with barrels starting as short as 8.5", then up from there...12.5", 14", 18", 20", and up. Might be missing one..

For the longest time, I'd have suggested an 870, or a clone like the Norinco Grizzlies...but now, I'd be more inclined to suggest a Mossberg 500. They are lighter to carry, cycle every bit as nice (often better), and are available in a variety of configurations. The Maverick 88 is a cheaper, Mossberg-branded version of it...but I don't know enough about them to suggest it as a life-saving tool. I think target loads are good for fun, and for breaking-in a pump gun...but practice with slugs, both to know how heavier/heavy-ended ammo feels in the gun (meaning, during cycling) and also, where the POI is using a bead sight gun with slugs.

If you wanted to spend allot more, you could look at a Marlin 1895G in 45/70, but for close range bear defense...I would have almost as much faith in the 12ga. loaded with nasty slugs.

[Husty]

I 'built' my own back country shotgun. See if you can source an 870 without a barrel (got mine for 150) and buy a 12 or 14" barrel.. Dlask out of Vancouver makes them or you maybe find a 14" Remington factory barrel if your lucky. Still hate carrying it around, mostly just bring spray.

[tacomama]

In a back country scenario, I'd say 12g.
You may not have time to aim very precisely with a rifle, the 12g may give you better odds.
I have a Maverick 88 and that thing is great, It's been dropped is a muddy puddle, rinsed out in a creek and dried out and worked great.
In my opinion it is dependable, cheap and just what you need for a JIC....

[colroggal]

Originally Posted by tacomama

In a back country scenario, I'd say 12g.
You may not have time to aim very precisely with a rifle, the 12g may give you better odds.
I have a Maverick 88 and that thing is great, It's been dropped is a muddy puddle, rinsed out in a creek and dried out and worked great.
In my opinion it is dependable, cheap and just what you need for a JIC....

If the range is close enough that you don't have time to aim precisely, the pattern from heavy buck would be nearly as tight as a rifle shot.

Besides, pretty much universally, slugs are recommended if using a shotgun for bear defense. Or anything that moves at least an ounce of hard lead at at least 1200 fps.

Colin

[curtz]

My Akkar is 32 inches total length, easy to carry. It's full of buckshot, my quadding and camping gun. It was around $300 at p@d.

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by tacomama

In a back country scenario, I'd say 12g.
You may not have time to aim very precisely with a rifle, the 12g may give you better odds.
I have a Maverick 88 and that thing is great, It's been dropped is a muddy puddle, rinsed out in a creek and dried out and worked great.
In my opinion it is dependable, cheap and just what you need for a JIC....

Ya me too basically .... my cousin rolled down a sandy hill hiking with mine once.
Sand all thru it. Broke apart and cleaned it up , but some sand still remains. Has never not functioned.

So it's a good inexpensive pump

Could also go with more style and get the T2 shotty ..... hehe

I have those. And a zasastva 9.3x 62 for hiking trips , irons

For lightness I guess one of those dominion arms or so shotguns that are factory like 8.5 " barrel or so ..... or a sxs coach gun ...... gotta be up close though , then also have a kabar , ghurka or Bowie

[Twisted Canuck]

I've got a Grizzly with 12" barrel, full stock and ghost ring sights. Also a pistol grip Maverick 88 with 18" barrel. I hate carrying both of them. I'd sure like to carry my S&W Model 657 (41 mag). 210 gr XTP with 21 grains of H110 is good medicine. But of course that is too terrifying to be legal.....so go with either of the first two, with slugs. Grizzly is first choice.

[Flight01]

To carry a rifle “JIC” and not in grizzly bear country, I take my 357 ranch hand. Closest thing to a handgun we can carry. It would serve me well on cougar or wolf or rabid coyote or whatever scenario we could dream up.

A great small game gun with 38 special. Great deer carbine with 158gr 357 mag. This scenario would be needing a gun to get food if stuck for a day or two. I wouldn’t choose the ranch hand for hunting.

[Scott N]

I wish our laws were relaxed a bit so that we could carry appropriate revolvers / pistols in the woods. My Redhawk would be a lot handier than a lot of other choices if it was legal.

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by Scott N

I wish our laws were relaxed a bit so that we could carry appropriate revolvers / pistols in the woods. My Redhawk would be a lot handier than a lot of other choices if it was legal.

Revolvers at least. No high capacity angle of attack for the anti
Just a dream. Bad guys carry and conceal illegal firearms no matter the rules. Having a revolver open carry for bush purposes would be great.

[colroggal]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I've got a Grizzly with 12" barrel, full stock and ghost ring sights. Also a pistol grip Maverick 88 with 18" barrel. I hate carrying both of them. I'd sure like to carry my S&W Model 657 (41 mag). 210 gr XTP with 21 grains of H110 is good medicine. But of course that is too terrifying to be legal.....so go with either of the first two, with slugs. Grizzly is first choice.

Funny how a 24.5" 12 gauge is perfectly legal but a revolver far too large to conceal is verboten.

Colin

[deerfarmer]

It sure would be nice to be able to carry a side arm...maybe some day

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by colroggal

Funny how a 24.5" 12 gauge is perfectly legal but a revolver far too large to conceal is verboten.

Colin

One would think an N frame would be completely fine to open carry in the backwoods for personal JIC situtations, wouldn't they? But, we need to think of the children.

Yet if you work in an industry (forestry, energy) where you are out in the backwoods you can apply and often get an authorization to carry a restricted. So why can't a bow hunter, or a hiker/camper? Are they not just as at risk? Are they somehow inherently more dangerous to the public if they carry in the woods? Really? Stupid laws.

[whiskeywillow]

I'm of the same opinion as a number of these last few posts.. the carry laws certainly should-be expanded to more than trappers, forestry and the guiding professions. At the very least, some form of carry permit should be amended-in to the current legislations so (ordinary) properly licensed RPAL holders ensuing backcountry activity could pull one should they apply for it. Valid from date A to date B?? Pretty simple to do if you ask me, yet they complicate the hell out of allowing it.

There's surely no good reason whatsoever that a permit like that doesn't exist for an average outdoorsman in Canada. It's one big thing that comparable states like Montana for example really has over us. The laws and regulations are there in favour of the outdoorsman who's out n about enjoying the wild places their regions encompass; here, not so at all. Here, instead, the outdoors & firearms have only become a bureaucratic political BS show is all. Not there in favour of the users at all. Damn shame.

I'd carry 41's or 44's and load the heaviest hardcast ammo I could convince the gunshop to order me; drop 6 in the wheel on a Blackhawk or Vaquero and sleep good at night at the foot of any mountain! --- maybe one day Canada, maybe one day

Someone familiar with such things should start a petition on the matter and bring this matter to the big table out east..

[270person]

Not often does a bear crumple and die on the spot when hit with a bullet. Even at close range. Your best bet for close in conflict is pretty much always a fresh, large canister of bear spray. In your case it'd be a second can of it. Especially when you mention the firearm being strapped to your pack. Odds are you'll be a chewtoy before you can get it unstrapped and into action. Bear spray canister strapped to your chest is faster to ready.

Have a friend that endured a prolonged encounter with a grizzly sow and two previous year cubs not long ago. He's an experienced hunter with lots of bear knowledge gleaned from living and hunting in the Yukon for 25 years and when I asked him which he'd rather have in his hand were the situation to repeat itself, a rifle of any cartridge he could name, shotgun loaded with whatever, or bear spray, he told me 100% the spray.

We are under a false impression that one has time and distance on our side in these moments and that is usually a fallacy. In his case the sow stood up and had a look from 20 feet, dropped down into low scrub and came hard. She cleared the bush less than 10 feet from him and the first blast of spray turned her hard left at 6 feet. The cubs came from a similar distance on a 45 degree angle. Two more spray blasts turned them right. From there it was a circling sow and repeated charges for more than a minute and a half. Spray turned her each time.

His advice is 1) bear spray 2) know how to use it in advance - practise with a couple of cans prior 3) have it within easy access, i.e. carried on chest. Lots of people dismiss part 2. I've never carried or used it myself and had no idea how long a larger canister would even last with trigger nozzle depressed. Answer is roughly 8-10 seconds apparently and the key is short controlled bursts.

The other questions are how accurate one thinks they'd be IF you had time to shoulder a weapon, and how many shots they'd get off when confronted by a charging bear at close range. My friend was lucky. He had some warning. That won't always happen.

My plan would probably have been 1) hold spray trigger down for 8-10 seconds while trying to run and maintain sphincter control, or 1) fire shot into dirt, WHILE crapping drawers 2) roll into fetal position while sobbing incessantly and become a taste test.

Anyone that viewed the video shot up by Whitecourt this fall of the grizz boar digging up the black bear den should have a pretty good idea of what it would take to put one of these guys down quickly. Tank with 50 cal turret gunner would likely work well but the better self defence option might be to offend his olfactorys and gain some back out time.

[deerfarmer]

Thanks for sharing that 270person. Good first hand perspective of something I hope to never have to learn first hand

[270person]

Originally Posted by deerfarmer

Thanks for sharing that 270person. Good first hand perspective of something I hope to never have to learn first hand

Me either. I get chills just listening to him tell the story. He was a lucky boy but didn't come out of it completely unscathed.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by 270person

Me either. I get chills just listening to him tell the story. He was a lucky boy but didn't come out of it completely unscathed.

Was that Ben? Out by Swan Hills?

[Tactical Lever]

Ranch hand is handy. Bought my wife one for walking around. Installed a full length stock on it, took the rear sight elevator out, and cut the rear sight a little deeper to get the POI about right.

One of these days I'll probably cut the big lever, heat it and bend it a little smaller, then weld it closed again. And probably shorten the full stock by an inch.

Hers is a .44 Mag that I handload for. Kind of .44 Spl. +P+, more or less. Kind of a loud gun though.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Was that Ben? Out by Swan Hills?

No sir. Grande Cache area.